I wish our lot would refuse to do pre-election debates, totally useless and boring events that they are. Orban's outlook on sexual perversions would also be nice.

There is no good reason for Orban to be matey with Zelensky, who has seized the opportunity of war to suspend 11 opposition parties, the largest of which has 44 seats in the 450 seat parliament. The president has also nationalised several media outlets to “implement a unified information policy”!

Ukraine is a lot like Russia. In the area of democracy it gets a score of only 61/100 from Freedom House: it is partly free, in the same league as countries like Colombia, Serbia, Liberia, El Salvador and the Philippines.

In the corruption stakes, Ukraine’s score is 32/100, making it “Europe’s most corrupt country” (‘Transparency International’).

The EU needs to grow a spine and a pair of testes and insist that the rules governing membership be fully enforced. Failing that the offending state jettisoned until the rules are complied with. No ifs, buts or maybes!
Alan B.

Re "Orban is challenging Western democracies", this is correct if you consider what is effectively what "powers that be" in the US regard as a democracy. ie Other countries where leaders are obliging towards adopting policies in Washington's interests. Never mind if they against those of citizens of the country. Or if political leaders were installed basically after processes corrupted by the US and not genuinely democratically elected. Seems Orban is a leader who does his job in putting interests of his own people first and likely to receive continues strong support from them. One policy is something these supposed western democracies don't like. ie Continuing to maintain a good relationship and trade with the Russian Federation. Where apparently Vladimir Putin has a higher approval rating among his constituents than any other leader of a major country. Yet the US especially try to label him and also President Assad of Syria as "dictators". Maybe correct, but have widespread public support when they are overall good at getting things that are wanted done.

Thank you ttbn for your comments on Zelenskyy and democracy and corruption in Ukraine. However, many people,including myself, would object to calling sexual perversion same sex marriage, accepting people equally irrespective of their sexual orientations and educating children about sexuality in schools. ALAN B. The Eu does enforce its rules in regards to Hungary. It is making aid grants to Hungary conditional on its compliance with its policies. By keeping Hungary in Eu, Orban's antidemocratic stands can be exposed, challanged and hopefully reduced. Also, the issue of the relative importance of national values and sovereignty and the power of Eu over members is an issue that needs to be continually discussed and refined.The Eu needs to value both national cultural diversities and Eu unity, and this requires dialogue and a continued balancing act.

Andris,

If you must. I won't object to your objection to my right to free speech. You are probably used to cancelling people, given your experience with your ABC, so I understand your problem.

Orban, I pine for an Orban.

Funny it is how those terrible autocratic (sic) leaders of other Countries who are such bad (sic) people, almost reprehensible a minority would have us believe, are actually very popular in their own Countries.

Just goes to show how popular is conservatism with a big dash of religion, among the masses: And that too with an extra big dash of Christian morality (as opposed to liberal secular ethics with a big dash of Atheism.

Easy to see which one of the two wins the popularity stakes!

Dan.

A really interesting and informative article though unfortunately contains the usual biased language. Describing his migrant policies as "radical". What nonsense. Determining who comes into your country and how is a fundamental principle everywhere in the world including Australia, with the exception of suicidal states like the USA and European Union. Insisting that a father be a man and a mother a woman was simply common sense until five minutes ago. Likewise no non-western nations would suggest otherwise. Hungary is the model that all Western nations should be looking to if they hope to survive with their culture and way of life intact. Unfortunately its never good for one man to stay in power for too long. Its intoxicating effects tend to lead to bad decision making.

Anglosphere nativist libertarian conservatives, where do their loyalties lie?

Orban, described as 'mini Putin', has managed to lose an ally in conservative Poland for not calling out Putin & Russia, hence, the Visegrad 4 has effectively collapsed.

Then for all his public animosity towards the EU (while taking taxpayer funds and disbursing to inner circles without transparency) and hyping the anti-semitic 'Soros Conspiracy' ('the great replacement') a clear majority of Hungarians prefer to stay in the EU; remaining allies are Turkey, Serbia, China, Russia (quietly), Vietnam, Central Asian Republics etc.

Meanwhile Hungary has significant emigration of youth and working age into the EU, due to Covid and now Ukraine, most will stay away permanently; making dire demographics much worse (added issue of no formal immigration, but it does exist from China, Asia & Mid East, simply not advertised); Hungary is on track to become a majority Roma or Gypsy population.

Finally, US conservative figure and Poland based Anne Applebaum called out ('foreign agent' Tony Abbott's favourite) Koch Network think tank the Danubius Institute in Budapest; along with his liaising with the UK's IEA and IPA (his advisor was a Danubius 'fellow' till Applebaum's Tweet, she was probably referring to US conservative Rod Dreher?) as follows:

'If you work for the Orban-funded Danube Institute, or are/were enjoying a fellowship there, your views on Viktor Orban and the Hungarian elections should be taken with a grain of salt and a raised eyebrow. Just saying.'

Several years ago the SMH cited Abbott in Hungary:

'former prime minister's talk of migrants "swarming across the borders in Europe", invoking the dangerous old notion of immigrants as pests or vermin.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/why-australia-s-conservatives-are-finding-friends-in-hungary-20190924-p52uim.htm

Andras Smith

All you achieve with your view is to highlight the disconnect of the elitist ruling class of politics.
Politics is an opaque wall of divided opinion, who can tell where is the truth?
It’s why Politics and philosophy are academically intertwined, you would agree surely.

So down on ground level, ( ground zero), invariably the divide is reasonably neatly divided into what’s called left and right.
You shouldn’t ignore that fact, because from that reality springs it’s cousin, winners and losers.

Then the obvious question is full to the brim with confused answers; who in this argument, has the right to win and who to lose as a consequence?

Picking off little bits of both sides for criticism is an endless and fruitless task, with a heading of propaganda.
Propaganda is brimming with legitimacy but devoid of trust.

I don’t believe you!

Dan

DD: Your analysis consists solely of 'I don’t believe you!'.....

Further re the first post of diver dan here about leaders being labelled as autocratic outside their own countries while they are popular within - as Orban of Hungary has recently been proven to be: Apparently Vladimir Putin currently has around 80% approval rating by citizens of the Russian Federation. Intervention to help people who are largely Russian in Eastern Ukraine against bad treatment by the Kiev government have helped increase it recently. The Yanks would love it if another Boris Yeltsin type could be installed as Russian leader so they could effectively rob the people and plunder resources. His popularity was apparently down to some low single figure before he left office. Also worth noting that in the US, approval of Biden, who seems to be becoming President Al Zheimer is now down to around 38%. Then for a long time the US has been trying to label President Bashar al Assad of Syria a brutal dictator etc. They hate him because he has been most disobedient to attempted dictates from Washington. Meanwhile has remained very popular with his own people.

One needs to be quite ignorant or willing to avert their gaze on populist autocrats like Orban, Putin, Erdogan et al. who claim democracy and popularity by 'stacking the deck' and playing up on regional, monocultural, ageing &/or low income with socialist policies.

Crosses over with US radical right libertarian think tanks too i.e. Koch Network in Anglosphere, Hungary too (linked with several IPA/LMP types) and Koch Industries remaining invested in Russia.

Worse, Kochs have sponsored a conspiracy theorist or simple denier in Mearsheimer to claim e.g. NATO provocation (but ignoring the wishes of all Central European nations?), minimal Ukraine civilian deaths etc.

From Journalist Judd Legum:

'Koch-funded analyst raises doubts about Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilians. A foreign policy analyst with extensive ties to the non-profit network operated by Charles Koch publicly cast doubt about whether Russian forces are attacking civilians in Ukraine. The analyst, Professor John Mearsheimer, also suggested that, if Russian forces have attacked civilians, such attacks would be justified. While offering excuses for Russia, Mearsheimer appeared to pin the blame for civilian deaths on the actions of the American government'

https://popular.info/p/koch-funded-analyst-raises-doubts?s=r

'Koch group says U.S. should deliver partial "victory" to Russia in Ukraine.... Stand Together, the influential non-profit group run by right-wing billionaire Charles Koch, argues that the United States should seek to deliver a partial "victory" to Russia in Ukraine.'

https://popular.info/p/exclusive-koch-group-says-us-should?s=r

Andras Smith.
Disclaimer, ?(Andras Smith = Andris Heks (assumption)!)?

Life is more and more of the same, till you die Andras.
What amuses me, is the pathetic nature of humanity that thinks otherwise.

On all sides of the Political camp are examples which point in the same direction.

Your left wing hate session against a right wing Orbán, highlights the stupid of ignoring history.

The German Nazi Party (NSDAP), originated from a small collection of drinking mates in a railway shunting yard. Look where that went.

One never knows mate, in spite of your I own history likewise originating in obscurity in the epicentre of gay rights and rainbow flags, (among other collections of anti-social clap trap), the ABC, you may too be famous one day!

Dan

No, different people. However, do you actually have something more substantive to state about the topic vs. speaking in negative generalities &/or shooting messengers, about what you feel?

Andras Smith,

Andras , from the outset on this page, is a confusion with your title. Let’s clear that one up to help progress.
To whom do I address here. The author Andris Heks, Andris, or Andris Smith?
Right from the outset there is an obvious obfuscation.

Then to the heading of the article. “Hungary’s PM Orbán is challenging Western democracies”.
One would arrive very early on at a conclusion from reading the heading, this might be a positive piece with a pro-Orban intent; but no way is it that.

Moving forward as they say, there is little of its content which is actually not lifted from the song sheet of Western propaganda.
I recognise Western propaganda because, I’m bathed in the S* daylight to dark.

I look for originality, and get incensed and hostile, when I’m tricked into wasting my life investing time into reading the repetitious crap which is generally a lie and at best a half truth.

Orbán is doing most things the right way for Hungarians, thus his popularity at home.
And as for your pro-gay nonsense, that crap is anti-human; leave that in the animal world, hitch was a time before Adam and Eve when humans were in a level with animals. Humanity, prior to gay rights and rainbow flags of equality you promote with less than subtly, has moved forward: notice that word “forward”…not backwards.

Dan.

What 'western propaganda' examples can you offer? What evidence can you offer of Hungarian media being free and independent?

Too many people in far away places hero worship autocrats nowadays absolving themselves of any responsibility.

ttbn Your last claim is untrue.

RHYS JONES: 'Determining who comes into your country and how is a fundamental principle everywhere in the world'... This is not the
objection to Orban. It is the banning of Muslims exclusively.

'Insisting that a father be a man and a mother a woman was simply common sense...'

Actually the majority in most Western Democracies have voted for marriage equality and for puting an end to centuries of sexual discrimination.
Most Hungarians don't endorse Orbán's discriminatory stand on sex as shown by the failure of his referendum on this. Rejecting universal human rights is hardly a model for other nations to follow.

ANDRAS SMITH: You are spot on.
'One needs to be quite ignorant or willing to avert their gaze on populist autocrats like Orban, Putin, Erdogan et al. who claim democracy and popularity by 'stacking the deck' and playing up on regional, monocultural, ageing &/or low income with socialist policies.'
Absolutely.
You rightly question the confused and bile spitting Driver Dan:
'do you actually have something more substantive to state about the topic vs. speaking in negative generalities &/or shooting messengers, about what you feel?'
Again, I agree with your question and observation Andras that: 'What evidence can you offer of Hungarian media being free and independent?
Too many people in far away places hero worship autocrats etc.'

MOX: 'leaders being labelled as autocratic outside their own countries while they are popular within'

I would take the 'the popular at home'with a grain of salt. The high popularity figures of Putin are compiled under intimidation of those surveyed if they dared to say no to the 'dear leader.' Secondly, while it is true that Orbán is popular at home, much of this was achieved in preventing a level playfield for information communication for the opposition in the national media from which the majority of Hungarians get their informatin. It is far worse in Russia and China where protesters are threatened with lengthy jail terms if they dare to protest and all opposition parties and critical views are shut down.

Andris

Your a rainbow flag warrior; a terrorist!

Dan