Dear Ipso Fatso,

«Let's talk about heterosexuals and homosexuals.
Everyone else seems to be.»

Yes, it seems that they all deserted the original topic.
It may be interesting to discuss sexual orientations, but the important topic of religious freedom has once again been hijacked.

You did however bring up some very interesting points and it would be lovely to discuss them on some other appropriate discussion thread.

There is a line of thought that Christianity was a gay breakaway sect from Judaism. John the Baptist initiated a naked Jesus into the sect while his gay followers watched on and cheered. St Paul was persecuting gay Christians until he had his Damascus moment and realised he way guy himself, and joined in.

Dear Paul,

There is a line of thought that the Prophet Muhammad (p.b.o.h) passed to his followers some seeds of a spelled Banyan tree that can grow through anything: a couple of years ago such a seed was found and confiscated by ASIO, then secretly planted upside-down from the cleaner's room in Canberra's parliament building, so in about 6 years it will grow all the way through the center of the earth and its top leaves will emerge in the northern Atlantic ocean, where it will suck up nuclear Russian submarines and fetch them to Australia for free and much earlier!

You see, I just made that one: lines of thoughts are very easy to produce - like to buy a dozen?

Now that you achieved your purpose of gaining our attention, is there anything you want to tell us about religious freedom?

Hi Yuyutsu,

I have no problem with "religious freedom", no more than I have a problem with "secular freedom". Providing no harm is done to others, physicality or mentally, I see no reason to restrict the practices, and you certainly can't restrict a persons inner beliefs, of Christians or any other group in society.

If there was a revelation and the narrative changed, to one that Jesus was gay, and the true founder of Christanity St Paul etc was also gay, would that deminish the value of Christian teachings in your eyes?

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your response that you are not opposed to religious freedom.

You say that one cannot restrict inner beliefs, but then beyond beliefs there are practices and there it gets more complicated.

Let me give an example:
"If you come across a bird’s nest beside the road, either in a tree or on the ground, and the mother is sitting on the young or on the eggs, do not take the mother with the young. You may take the young, but be sure to let the mother go, so that it may go well with you and you may have a long life." [Deuteronomy 22:6-7]

That's a poor English translation, found in most common English versions. The original Hebrew verse, and the prevalent Jewish understanding, says that you should send the mother-bird away, then you MUST take the young.

Now suppose a Jew walks in a nature reserve and comes upon a nest with a mother-bird of an endangered species sitting on her eggs: they may not be interested in the bird or the eggs, but the Bible commands them to chase away the bird and take the eggs (then they don't have to use the eggs, they can return them to the nest, but by then the mother is already gone).

State laws could demand that no person may touch the nest, scare the bird or take the eggs, but Jews believe that God commanded them otherwise: what to do? This is a question about religious freedom that is more pertinent than that silly discussion of homosexuality.

«If there was a revelation and the narrative changed, to one that Jesus was gay, and the true founder of Christanity St Paul etc was also gay, would that deminish the value of Christian teachings in your eyes?»

No, but then you need to present this question to Christians, not to me who am not.

Yuyutsu,

Religious bigotry was a real issue a hundred years ago, but the overwhelming majority of people today will not be concerned if you worship God in the wrong way. There is still discrimination against Muslims,but that is because of Islamic terrorism and cultural practices such as honour killings, not their beliefs.

The people calling for this bill are mostly evangelical Protestants and Catholics. They are not the target of discrimination in terms of jobs, welfare, housing, etc., although I agree that people should be able to talk about what their religion teaches, even if others are offended by it. By and large, however, what these particular Christians really want is the freedom to discriminate, and not just with respect to roles such as priest, pastor, or religious teacher, where people are expected to serve as examples of Christian living. Homosexuality is relevant here, because homosexuals are the Christian fundamentalists' prime (but not only) target, even if they are not flagrant about their sexual preferences.

Concerning your example, so far as I know, our laws don't accept religion as an excuse to do something that is otherwise illegal and antisocial. We don't allow human sacrifice or burning a widow on her husband's funeral pyre, for example. I would hope that the authorities throw the book at anyone, Jewish or otherwise, who harasses an endangered species.