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The Forum > Article Comments > Nato should help Putin over Ukraine > Comments

Nato should help Putin over Ukraine : Comments

By Keith Suter, published 2/2/2022

Europe is on the verge of war. Putin has put himself in a corner and NATO should help him get out of it – for the sake of Europe's peace and security.

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Thanks KS for that thoughtful article. Just some further thoughts. There is arguably a historical precedent in the Cuban Missile Crisis, in that the Crisis reinforced the "sphere of influence" doctrine. In other words, following the resolution of the Crisis, it was tacitly accepted that Russia (then the USSR) should not have the right to place missiles in the backyard of the USA, namely, Cuba. If the USA is able to rely on this doctrine, so too logically can Russian Federation. NATO ought not to be extending its reach right up to the borders of the Russian Federation. By all means, the Ukraine has the right to apply to join NATO. However the responsible action for NATO would be not to agree to the application.
Posted by Dr James Page, Thursday, 3 February 2022 5:00:54 PM
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"An immediate step would be for NATO to state that Ukraine would not be accepted as a member. This would honour the agreement from three decades ago."

No, that's the ONLY step.

Sick of hearing this BS that Russia invaded and annexed Ukraine.

What happened was that the US including Clinton, Biden, McCain and Soros engineered the 2014 Maidan and overthrow of Ukraine and it's then President Yanukovych.

If you go back in time to Ukraines Parliament prior to 2014, a MP even stood up and stated publicly that the US was trying to overthrow the country; go back and listen to Victoria Nulands leaked phone calls and comments.

I could go dig some videos up.

TechCamp Kyiv 2012 (c/o the US Embassy).
http://youtu.be/bpIoBUDuL3U
The U.S. Embassy hosted TechCamp Kyiv at Master Klass Cultural Center in Kyiv, Ukraine on September 12 and 13. TechCamp Kyiv marks the 14th TechCamp supporting Secretary Clinton's Civil Society 2.0, an initiative which builds the digital literacy of civil society organizations around the world.

What is Civil Society 2.0?
It an app they used to allow protestors to co-ordinate - and to conduct OVERTHROWS of government.
They also used it in Occupy Wall St a year or so earlier.

Ukraine after the Maidan tried to ban use of the Russian language.
That's when Putin went in and secured Crimea, and the Crimean people VOTED to leave Ukraine and join Russia.

- You all understand the UN right of self determination don't you? -

The US tried to take over a country JUST AS IT ALWAYS DOES, but Putin threw a little spanner in the works with Crimea.

If I was Putin, I'd just turn the gas off, simple.
No need to use a Sarmat 2, which would wipe Ukraine OFF THE MAP
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 3 February 2022 7:29:31 PM
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A brief response to the Armchair Critic:

1. As a sovereign and independent nation, Ukraine should determine its own present and future, rather than become either a pawn used by Russia or the west for its own political ends. Its wish to align itself to the west via NATO membership, should be respected.

2. Russia has dominated Ukraine since the reign of Catherine the Great! The process of Russification under Stalin is well documented where vast numbers of Ukrainians were either killed or deported to other Soviet Republics where Russian became the common language. Ukrainian was forbidden to be taught or used under harsh penal penalties for decades, and Russian de facto became the lingua franca of the land. It is only since securing independence that there has been a new resurgence of interest and uptake of the Ukrainian language in education, business and politics. Interesting to note that in the video clip of the TechCamp, only three people spoke Ukrainian – the rest spoke Russian.

3. Even after independence, Russia and its oligarchs exerted (and still exert) considerable influence in the political sphere. Yanukovych was nothing more than a criminal Russian stooge doing Putin’s biddings, and the Maidan was a popularist movement to re-establish genuine democracy in Ukraine. And by the way, both Russian AND Ukrainian are recognised as accepted languages in contemporary Ukraine.

4. Crimea has enormous strategic significance for Russia, and any planned invasion of Ukraine. It is facile to say that Crimeans “voted” to leave Ukraine and join Russia. Our honorable “Armchair critic” seems to have little comprehension of a political system where “voting” means very little, and where, the ruling party always “wins” decisively in all elections. Also see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNIU6TRsRzk

5. Ironic that his comments end with a question re self-determination, while the content of his critique seems to deny that very process to Ukraine. Putin is an ex-KGB master political manipulator and is well-aware of global consequences of his present machinations in eastern Ukraine. It still remains to be seen where this game will end: a stalemate or a bloodbath. His move!
Posted by Yuri, Friday, 4 February 2022 10:31:48 AM
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If you join NATO, you won't be independent anyway.
You'll be a vassal state of the US, and if there is some kind of war;
Which will be a whole lot more likely when the US places missiles all over Ukraine aimed at Moscow;
Then Ukrainian dead will be piled up everywhere.
I support your right to be free from foreign interference, at least in some part, but I don't support you being free to place US controlled weapons all over Ukraine.

NATO should be disbanded, they create this kind of stuff TO JUSTIFY THEIR OWN EXISTENCE.

They're an army with no nation and a law unto themselves.
You think the NATO generals are there for your benefit?
They are there for themselves.

Furthermore if you want Ukrainian sovereignty respected and the right to decide you own path, then you should respect the same in regards to Crimea as well as the Donbass region

You backed the overthrow and and it didn't turn out how you planned.
The West tried to deny Russia its Black Sea ports, had it all thought out, but obviously not well enough.

The West plays checkers and Putin plays Chess.

The US is only using you to further their agenda against Russia.
They're only doing it because they're drunk on meddling in other nations affairs the same as what you complain about with Russia, only the difference is Ukraine historically IS Russia.

The moment Soros came down and helped overthrow the country, that was shorty before the Biden's went over there and robbed your nation blind.
Not to mention all the dirty stuff they were doing on the sly by doing it out of your country instead of in the US.

Your jumping out of the frypan, and into the fire.

Putin's not going to invade, it's posturing.
But he might supply more arms to the Eastern regions.

If the West goes and puts more missiles all over Ukraine, which aren't just for defense, and can be easily be used for offense, then you might force Putins hand to act then.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 4 February 2022 7:42:17 PM
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Do you not realise the US does NOT keep its word?

My guess is those in the West who liked exploiting your country, would very much also like to exploit the vast wealth contained in Russias 11% of global landmass in which it holds, especially since it will be opened up more as the climate becomes warmer.

You're just putting your hand up to get caught in the middle of it.
you think you're fighting for independence, but your just being used to further an agenda that seeks to rob nations of their wealth, or sanction them, when that doesn't work out.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 4 February 2022 7:58:10 PM
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I wish to thank Armchair Critic for his two hysterical replies! Just a couple of questions:

So you are saying that the 30 nations that presently are in NATO are not independent? And if they are, then why would Ukraine not be independent too?

Are those 30 nations all vassal states to the USA? And what does that mean to you? Australians are linked to various alliances – does that make Australia a vassal country to the US or to the UK?

Given the fact that in 1994 Ukraine rid itself of all nuclear weapons, with the understanding that its sovereignty and independence with secure borders would be guaranteed, why are you immediately making such negative assumptions? Do all the NATO powers (including Poland) bristle with weapons all pointed at Moscow? And if not, then why would Ukraine be an exception?

As soon as you mention Soros, you immediately disqualify yourself as a legitimate commentator, but rather enter into the murky domain of conspiracy theorists! Unfortunately, most of your “assumptions” are easily challenged and disputed.

In fact, do you even speak or understand Ukrainian, Russian or Polish? You seem to have some understanding of English – but on what basis do you make these fantastic claims and fanatical judgments? I, not only am fluent in those languages, but also in Italian, German and English – and base my observations on keen analysis of contemporary news as given by this multinational press. There is nothing wrong with being an Armchair Critic but one has to have some solid basis or evidence before pontificating on something as vital as this. Thank you.
Posted by Yuri, Friday, 4 February 2022 9:34:35 PM
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