Dear Foxy,

Whether or not Israel is a democracy (I respect your wish to not continue discussing it), one thing it is not - a Jewish state.

If you think of Israel as a Jewish state then you buy into the propaganda of the Jewish settlers. This includes the propaganda of Israel's original, pre-1948 settlers, as well as the current violent settlers of the West-Bank.

What the original founders of Israel wanted, was to create a Hebrew state whereby they could shake off their weakling diaspora-mentality and re-create the extinct but proud Hebrew culture of people who live on their own land.

But then came the holocaust, followed by the world pitying the Jews and wanting to make reparations to alleviate its guilt. Creating a fresh Hebrew state and having it accepted proved difficult, but hitching onto the Jewish cause helped in gaining the world's support.

Thus started the compromise and deceitful tactic of pretending to form a "Jewish state", "Jewish" by name only in order to benefit from the world's sympathy.

Much later on, this propaganda was renewed by the West-Bank settlers who want to rob Israel's identity and make it serve their fanatic Messianic Jewish ambitions instead.

In practice, Israel always was and still is, a Hebrew state. While all Jews are formally allowed to settle in Israel, Jews who were uninterested in the Hebrew culture never found their true place in Israel, while other Jews who escaped to Israel due to economic hardship and persecution (especially in Arab countries and Africa), found themselves as 2nd-class Israeli citizens. On the other hand, non-Jewish Arabs who adopted the Hebrew language and culture, who chose to be constructive rather than destructive, were nicely integrated into Israeli society.

Dear Mhaze,

Indeed, the so-called "Palestinians" do not deserve concessions.

Israel ought to leave those occupied cursed territories for its own good, not for others' sake but in order to save its own moral character from the corruption incurred by its 1967 war.

There may not be peace in the levant, but at least Israel could live in peace within itself. Whether the so-called "Palestinians" also subsequently live in peace with Israel is up to them, but as you said, they cannot destroy Israel anyway!

Yuyutsu,

Before I go I'd like to once again make the claim that:

Israel is a Jewish state.

Of course I realize that you don't agree with this but
the reality is that in practice -
Israel's institutions, and policies
are designed to ensure the perpetuation of a Jewish
majority, which is accorded superior rights and
privileges relative to Israel's Palestinian, Muslim,
and Christian citizens.

Time magazine confirms that chief among these policies is the
reservation of the lion's share of land for Jews within Israel.

It's therefore no wonder that this state policy
ensures permanent, mutual hostility between Palestinians
and the state and their deepening antagonism.
A two state solution is virtually impossible while this
perpetuation to a Jewish majority continues.

There's more at the following:

http://www.time.com/6048366/Israel-palestine-conflict-world/

Dear Foxy,

It seems that the author of the article you quoted (an Arab name, BTW) was also misled by settler propaganda, them who try to hijack Israel for their Messianic-Jewish cause.

Israel historically presented itself as a Jewish state because it had no choice, because it could not obtain the world's (including America's) approval otherwise. This was not its intention but a necessary tactic. For lack of better formal definitions it is still reflected in the letter of its laws, but not in practical everyday life there.

For you perhaps and for the author, it does not really matter what Israelis want or what Israel stands for, so long as it is gone: the so-called "Palestinians", for reasons or their own, are bent on Israel's destruction and suppose they were successful, then no, they would not have their own state, but instead rejoin Greater Syria with which they identified before the British occupation.

But for me it matters, because I have family there.

If the intent and purpose of Israel is to accommodate the Jewish people, then it can be understood why it must be bigger in area, why it must push out all other ethnicities, why it must make room for their King, the Messiah of David's lineage (and I don't mean Jesus), to come. This would also mean that Israel couldn't remain democratic.

However, if as I claim, the intent and purpose of Israel's founders as well as of [still, I hope] most Israelis, is to have a place for those who so wish to live according to and enhance the Hebrew culture, this unique Israeli culture which so much differs from other Jewish cultures, then Israel would benefit from having a smaller area, from democracy, from peace and from absorbing these non-Jewish people in their area who are also attracted to their culture (but not others).

You seem to condemn the people of Israel as a whole for the crimes of some fanatic, Taliban-like Messianic Jewish cult. They too are the victims of that cult, not just the Palestinians.

Yuyutsu,

A few corrections:

The author of this article - Alon Ben Meir
was born to a Jewish family. His names are not Arabic -
their origins are Hebrew.

He is a Professor of International relations at New
York University. He teaches courses on international
negotiation and Middle Eastern Studies. He knows what
he's talking about.

I don't condemn the people of Israel. I am critical of
the government, and their policies. As a matter of fact
I have pointed out that there are many Jews who have
regularly called out Israeli crimes against Palestinian.
And that a growing number of Jews in the diaspora are
refusing to accept Israeli oppression against Palestinians
in their name

In any case as I stated earlier I can see that there is no
further point in any discussion with you on this subject.
I shall not be responding to you any further.
BTW: I also have friends as well as family in Israel.

Dear Foxy,

I understand that you do not wish to discuss this any further.

Just to clarify, I was not referring in my previous post to Alon Ben-Meir, but to Mouin Rabbani, the author of the other article you pointed me to.