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The Forum > Article Comments > Angels and Demons > Comments

Angels and Demons : Comments

By Don Aitkin, published 13/4/2021

Tough-minded people like 'facts', and they are materialistic and pessimistic. The tender-minded rely on principles, and they are idealistic, dogmatic and optimistic.

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The word missing from the essay is "balance"; or getting the balance right, if you are on that [right] side of attitudes. And of course, it also comes back to the left and right sides of the brain, doesn't it?

Those whom we label as "poor" are often very happy- spiritually, if not economically. The poor are happy in spirit; and do not need the wealth to make their lives miserable. Greed may be in our culture, but it should not be so.

And we try to forget forget that many of us are descendants of criminals from Great Britain- brought out in chains long ago; is how we like to put that situation?
How can we sit in judgement of poor people who have committed no crime and wish to live in our community? Is that rational? Is it just?
Posted by Cyclone, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 10:14:36 AM
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I'm tough minded on almost everything, which help in analysing information http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/

and in leading those who supply me with information http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2021/04/indias-6-future-alpha-ssns-ssbn.html - scroll down to the 13 comments.
_____________

But the chink in my armour is being tender minded about women I'm not responsible for. Basically whatever the marriage of romantic relationship I've been in I always look where The Grass is Greener. Hence see http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9452&page=0#318837

"Thanks for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgZNo2HEFgg

It's uncanny that the "redhead" on the right is the spitting image of a Belarusian-American, from the US Department of Homeland Security, I had an internet "romance" with many moons ago. She had a crush on my fake "Young Errol Flynn" photo (I used my real name of course and finally admitted the Errol photo wasn't me). Are, those were the days my friend. I thought they'd never end :) "

This Grass is Greener fixation has broken 2 marriages and other relationships. But then again this gives me more time to write.
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 10:18:20 AM
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It's more the practical minded against the weak minded: the Right against the Left. Unfortunately, tragically, there are not enough of the former and far too many of the weak minded Left.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 10:48:58 AM
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Politics is the only game in town, and there are just two players: Liberal and Labor. Labor is moving further to the left, and so is the Liberal party, becoming what Labor used to be. There is little hope for Australia.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 11:01:43 AM
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We are becoming less tough minded as we grow wealthier, but are we actually growing wealthier?

We don't have to live in a dirt floor tin shed while we build a small house, as we, & so many others did after the war. No we can now borrow a kings ransom to mortgage a McMansion to live in.

We no longer have to tend a veggy patch, or eat rabbit, even catch it ourselves to spread the food budget a little further. No we buy some concocted stuff of doubtful source packaged to heat in the microwave, because we are too busy working to pay that mortgage to grow, hunt or cook fresh food. We have to spend the time we used for such activities traveling long distances to our place of employment, to pay that mortgage.

Are we richer? Not really. I have lived on a few atolls in the Pacific. The locals don't have much. They have a small house that took just 2 days to build mostly of palm fronds. The mostly live outside. They have a canoe, not a car. It took then up to a month of an hour or 2 a day to hollow out the log. Some have radios, but the batteries will be flat if a copra boat has not recently visited.

Who is richer? Is it them with nothing to spend the little money they have on, or us, always struggling to pay the mortgage, school fees or car repairs. Perhaps it should be them sending us a few bob.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 12:31:06 PM
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Hi Hassy

Given there are Aussie blokes/gals:

- not still paying mortgages,
- didn't make the mistake of living in sky high priced, traffic jammed, Syd or Mel,
- not running, insuring, maintaining all the cars one bloke has
- no boats, be they windjammers or big motors
- don't gamble (not even brain-in-limbo pokies, or horsies)
- no kids at home (all grown up)
- no spouse/dependent to blow your savings,
- no women (straight or lez) to spend your money to buy that $10K-20K ring for themselves

All in all there are some blokes who live within their means (on very little super)

Then where is your EITHER/OR ISLANDS paradise (Tonga? Samoa?) now hassy?

ISLANDS where most overeat, buy overpriced tinned food from the village shop, ingest too much suger, drink too much, too much Kava or Betel Nut, have forgotten how to fish/hunt, need to live in Aus or NZ to send money home. Die young from heart disease or diabetes - inadequate medical care.

So what's your prognosis now Hassy? Is Aus all bad, even for you?
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 1:41:07 PM
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Is Aus all bad, even for you?
plantagenet,
where in Australia are you ? Where I am (Nth Qld) things are ok apart from the odd weirdos with tattoos & rivets & studs, smoking dope & taking drugs etc. & labor voting Public Servants & history inventing locals.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 6:25:49 PM
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Hi indi

All is good for me as I've organised myself and decided a partner is bad for me. I tick all the following boxes and made some sacrifices to avoid conventional instant gratification (especially never gambling, never drinking at expensive bars/pubs or blowing money at expensive restaurants, had no international trips in 10 years). Hence

- the major benefit is no longer paying a mortgage or car loan
- I call in scams to the authorities
- my finances are checked by several security agencies and a tax accountant
- didn't make the mistake of living in sky high priced, traffic jammed, Syd or Mel,
- not running, insuring, maintaining several cars or motorbikes, no ride-on mower or quad
- no boats, be they windjammers or big motors
- don't gamble (not even brain-in-limbo pokies, or horsies)
- no kids at home (all grown up) though give them some money bdays and Xmas
- no spouse/dependent to blow your savings,
- no women to spend your money to buy that touching $10K-$20K ring for herself (like some unfortunate blokes have to tolerate)

I'm in Australia.
_________________

Hi Hassy

Despite how you say Aus is worse off than some illusory island paradises, I understand you're doing pretty good.
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 6:49:05 PM
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Plantagenet...your presenting yourself lately as out of character, with an exaggerated vociferous presence: this I’ve noticed, since the sad demise of our OLO pseudonym , AlanB.

Is this simply a case of change partners and dance? Or is my gut feeling wrong.
While your in the presence of the holy father and inside the confessional, should you just fess-up and say ten Hail Mary’s, or is my guess a long pass in flight with a Hail Mary?

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 9:44:24 PM
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Yes plantagenet, I'm doing OK. If you don't smoke, drink or gamble it costs little to live, after you have made your way. I haven't borrowed anything in 35 years, & after 10 years in the tourist industry, where I was expected to eat with the guests every night, I never want to enter a restaurant ever again. The worst punishment I can imagine, apart from returning to the Sydney of today, would be to have to spend a week on a cruise ship.

I bought my first house a small 4 room workers cottage before I was 21, so it was cash for the total 2300 pounds in what was an outer Sydney suburb. The next was 5000. It pays to start young. My real estate has covered my security, & frugal living has paid for my racing cars, my yacht, my horses, & now my sports cars. My home hobby farm would now sell for, [I almost said it was worth], about 7 or 8 times what I paid for it 30 years ago, so the kids will do OK too.

I have my ex navy son living in my granny flat, but costing nothing, so no problem. He is even useful on occasions. Anyone who can keep a couple of different clapped out old navy ships going for years can patch up almost anything.

There are still plenty of those islands, both atolls & volcanic high islands, & the ones I like have no formal transport connection. Many no communication if the white planter has gone. I could take you to a hundred north of PNG & the Solomons. Remember a 10 mile by 5 mile island is 15 Sq Miles, almost 10,000 acres, plenty of room for a few subsistence villages, & 30 miles of coastline means a longish walk between them.

They may be a bit lacking in stimulus even for us oldies, but for those who know little else, they leave the rat race for dead
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 11:18:40 PM
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Wham Bam Thankyou Dan

But no.
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 8:09:25 AM
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What a strange way to divide people up:

"Tough-minded people like 'facts', and they are materialistic and pessimistic"

- Fair enough, then I am not "tough".

"The tender-minded rely on principles, and they are idealistic, dogmatic and optimistic. They are also likely to be religious"

- Fine, so this categorises my personality as "tender".

So far so good, but then I got confused:

"The tender-minded agonise... 'Why can't we sort out our problems with China?'"

Get along with the devil? No way, when evil presents itself, only war will do!

"The tough-minded see self-reliance as crucial in the shaping of one's life"

Indeed, so do I.

"The tender-minded... are always looking to 'government' to sort things out."

Government? No way - I trust God and God alone, government is part of the problem.

- So am I a toughie then?

"There is not much difference in practice between Labor and Coalition governments in this area."

Yes, so I despise them both [for their cruel treatment of refugees].

"no country has an open-border immigration system."

Immigration is not a "system" but the natural movement of living-beings, humans included, across the planet. That "system" is just an artificial blockage of natural freedoms.

"Shouldn't we be starting with birth control"

We already HAVE birth control, whereby people are economically encouraged to bring children into this crowded planet. I definitely oppose control where others are told what to do or not to do, yet people should know that if they bring children then they would need to cover all the associated costs themselves.

The answer to my confusion can perhaps be found in the first paragraph that mentions "the society we are part of":

Of course we aren't and one wrong assumption can lead to every possible ridiculous notion! We (well I anyway) have been around long before society existed and shall remain around long after it is gone, so how could we be "part of" that? This may well be the pea which makes us sick under all the mattresses - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ0EKqAECPs
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 3:05:41 PM
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Hi Hassy

You've done well. I wish my son was around. Yep, no smoke. drink, gamble or marry bad woman is the way to go through life loan free.

I also bought a place young (admittedly on a double income ex-wife and I), then bought a bigger place just before the local market really took off. I had a really strange first full time job presided over by an ex-military martinet.

After 5 years, I worked in a straigt job. The old hands at the old work said I'd gotten out at the right time. Before the next "bosses" turned out to be worse than the martinet.

Moving from a high price city sale to a cheaper regional centre way up north was a good move. Buying a place for cash.

I found that some manageable health problems were exacerbated by the strain of marriage. Also my fascination with war and security can make me difficult to live with - ie. with women who see the world like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection

Thanks for the island offer - but I like heaps of books, latest cinema, and very Western conversation, women's company (on a non-ownership basis).

Lots of cheap land in Oz up north, centre.

Yes its sad for oldies who have little to do after retirement. I'm hitting 60 very soon - part of why I'm rather publicly taking stock of things now.

Cheers

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 3:39:40 PM
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plantagenet,
i have a roof over my head, a car & a little boat & I'm not starving & believe me I'm most appreciative of my situation in that regard.
What I do miss is a cultured mentality social scene ! I just can't get myself to engage in Football, Cricket, dope smoking & getting blind drunk & getting a Tattoo !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 7:26:29 PM
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Yes Pete, looking forward to a new boss being better than the old one is a mugs game, bound usually for disappointment. I was very lucky when we got a new director responsible for both my divisions. He was a finance not tourism man, & when he asked why you did something a certain way, his questions were to learn by comparing your system with others in the 24 properties he was responsible for.

He quickly saw my point that your customer is not the tourist, but the agent who sent them, to you. Sure you have to send the tourist home happy with your offering, & having enjoyed themselves, but making it easier, more comfortable & profitable for that agent is the way to get more business. Tourists are easy. They came out to enjoy themselves, & with just a little help, & no hassles from you, they will.

Those bad bosses, demons, are not necessarily dills. You can often learn a lot from them, if only how not to treat staff. Then if an angle boss, who is there to help you make good comes along, life is great.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 15 April 2021 2:11:04 AM
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.

Dear Don (the author),

.

Angels v Demons, tough-minded empiricism v tender-minded rationalism, realism v idealism, materialistic pessimism v religious optimism, liberalism v socialism, free-will (autonomy) v determinism, xenophobia v xenophilia, wealth v poverty, . . .

The antagonistic duality of William James’ philosophy seems more of the order of ideology than of pragmatism, don’t you think ?

There is nothing to prevent people from being both rational and empirical concordantly in their endeavours, whatever they may happen to be.

James’ is a grossly simplistic and unjustifiably Manichaean point of view of individuals and society in my opinion. It may apply to some individuals but certainly not to humanity as a general rule by any stretch of the imagination.

As Yuyutsu and even you, yourself, pointed out, Don, human nature is far more complex – and might I add, intelligent – than that.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Thursday, 15 April 2021 2:14:36 AM
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Hi indi

Like you I couldn't give a damn about "Football [eg. soccer Rugby League and Union,] Cricket, dope smoking & getting blind drunk & getting a Tattoo"

Before a grand final I have no idea whose playing and don't follow the horsies.

I prefer tennis (especially women players - Sharapova was easy on the eyes) watching female Olympic beach vollyball (waiting for Tokyo this year) and female figure skaters (on SBS Saturdays). Also conversation over lunch with women (because they're not as competitive).

I drink in moderation (part reason, hangovers get worse with age and I need so much medication the second drink leaves no buzz). No dope, smokes or "happy" pills.

So much more to life in reading, latest movies and (ABC and SBS British) series and specialist internatonal blogging (see my comment http://intelnews.org/2021/03/10/01-2968/#comments )

Indi, reckon, life in moderation and lots of exercise is best.

Cheers

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 15 April 2021 8:20:05 AM
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I used to do a lot of book reading Pete, but old eyes become strained, causing head aches after a couple of hours. The computer where print size is optional is much better.

I once bought a complete 19 volume Encyclopaedia Britannica, plus 10 Ready Reference volumes, & a few year books at a "going Home" to England auction in Honoria. Far too much to store on my yacht, & use as reference books. I stored therm with a mate with an atoll plantation way north of Bouganville, & took the first 2 with me.

Ultimately I worked my way through the lot from cover to cover, how many could say that. Not all that much to do at night when you are anchored at a small island building a jetty for someone, or sailing a few hundred miles to somewhere you can refill your gas bottles.

These days I build things. My first classic sports car was built from a couple of derelicts bought for $1200 the pair as a retirement project. Registered on the road after a year, but required another 4 to get quite right. Today it has a couple of mates.

Building cars got a bit heavy, so today it's remote control planes, both building & repairing them. I repair quite a few for mates who are better at crashing than repairing their planes. They keep giving me planes which I repair & add to the collection. I must have over 40, many I have never flown.

Retirement doesn't have to be boring. In fact I am so busy I don't know how I ever found time to go to work.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 15 April 2021 3:08:08 PM
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Hi Hassy

Mine own eyes can't see ultra small print - hence tending to larger print. Yeah half my reading is on the 'puter.

I threw away a 26 volume 1980 edition of Britannica - no market where I live in Oz, took up space. Wikipedia vastly better.

One of the Bond Girls (according to Dr No script I think?) educated herself by reading the many volure Encyclopedia on her isolated tropical island. I think in laid-down-and-easy fashion, she'd gotten to the letter "O".

My Mazda does all. Its got a HUD and everything - so none of those pre-2015 Chitty-Chitty Bang Bangs for me :)

I just take my care for its dealer checkup once a year. Have no idea of innards.
_________________________

BTW.

About the Land Rover at Phil's funeral 11.40pm Aus Eastern Time Saturday on Channel Nine:

"The palace revealed the first images of the specially built Land Rover Prince Philip helped design to carry his coffin. [see Land Rover http://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/ae0618e422e04b778a2a9f8623ba2589?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=2000&cropW=3000&xPos=0&yPos=0&width=862&height=575 ]

Land Rover originally built in 2003, Phil designed the open-top rear section that will hold his casket.

It has been by maintained and updated by Land Rover over the years, with the most recent modifications happening in 2019."
________________

Cheers

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 16 April 2021 10:07:49 AM
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