Sells,

<<Death is real, a real end and absence that cannot be penetrated. When this is understood, the confidence of "a better place" after death is exposed as a attempt to soften the hard realities of life and therefore to remain a child in the world.>>

This is your world view speaking. It is far, far from biblical reality which states:

"For to me, living is Christ and dying is gain" (Phil 1:21 NET).
"Thus we are full of courage and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Cor 5:8).

There is absolute confidence of going to a place of many rooms/mansions for the Christian (John 14:2).

Your problem, Sells, seems to be you don't have confidence in the authority of Scripture, so you invent your theology or seek someone else to support your liberalism.

Country music has a fantasy about heaven. This is one example, sung by its composer, Steve Wariner: http://theboot.com/country-songs-about-heaven/

Steve Wariner lyrics:

"Holes In The Floor Of Heaven"

One day shy of eight years old, my grandma passed away
I was a broken hearted little boy, blowing out that birthday cake
How I cried when the sky let go, with a cold and lonesome rain,
Mamma smiled, said don't be sad child, grandma's watching you today

Cause there's holes in the floor of heaven
And her tears are pouring down,
That's how you know she's watching,
Wishing she could be here now, http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/stevewariner/holesinthefloorofheaven.html

I'm a country music fan and have heard so many songs with a generalised statement about heaven but no biblical evidence.

Nobody know what happens after death.

ttbn,

How do you know? Can you prove it?

ttbn,

<<Nobody know (sic) what happens after death”>>

How do you know? What causes you to make this absolutistic statement?

Don't you think it would show more humility if you said: "I'm unsure what happens at death, but I'll seek some more information."

I will tell you what happens after death, what Sells said. You will end up in a box in a hole in the ground and you will rot away. End of story.
David

VK3AUU,

What happens to your soul after death?

OK. Somebody who thinks they know, tell me.

VK3,

<<I will tell you what happens after death, what Sells said. You will end up in a box in a hole in the ground and you will rot away. End of story.
David>>

From where did you gain that definitive information? From Bertrand Russell who wrote: "I believe that when I die I shall rot, and nothing of my ego will survive" (Russell, "What I Believe" (1925), reprinted in "Why I Am Not a Christian" (1957)), http://ffrf.org/news/day/dayitems/item/14328-bertrand-russell2

Take a listen to Jesus' view: "And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Is anything worth more than your soul? "Matt 16:26 NLT).

That's a radically different view to what you promote and a country mile from Bertrand's anti-Christian world view.

When you've seen the other side? Able to comment on it and just who are the lords of the universe!

Neither of which or who are as depicted by the political organizations masquerading as righteous religion/ religious belief systems!

The bulk of which are built on a foundation of a tissue of lies by the control freak element, who see themselves as the real masters of the universe?

That there is a spattering of decent human beings in this space? And outside it! Tells us plenty! That religion/religious belief has little to do with the content of your character! But what ou learn or ae taught while on your mother's knee, clearly does!

That it's overloaded with rogues, rascals, outright criminals and a huge cohort of a paedophile element? With treasure chests worth billions gifted to their control!

There is another side! And the choice to be a truth-teller on the side of the angels?

Or with evil incarnate and all that infers for all eternity!

And you're already halfway there, when you preach and teach false doctrine!
Alan B.

1. I don't have a soul, or if I do it will die with me.
2. There is no other side, that is just a forlorn hope, not a sure and certain hope as is recited ad nauseum at most Christian religious services. Only a hope, just as there is no God to judge you.
David

Dear Ttbn,

«OK. Somebody who thinks they know, tell me.»

That which dies is only the body, not the indweller therein. The Bhagavad-Gita tells us:

"As a person sheds worn-out garments and wears new ones, likewise, at the time of death, the soul casts off its worn-out body and enters a new one." [BG-2:22]

Why is it that people have to make the process of death into such a complicated business? Surely the simple process that I and others have laid out is the most obvious answer. I know a lot of people sincerely believe that it is different, just because it would be nice, but just because we are told in our childhood that there is a Santa Claus doesn't make it so, so why should death be any different.
David

There are no answers, and there never will be for the living. And there is no difference in dogmatism of those who say that there has to an after life and those who say there is not. Nobody knows.

There are numerous hospital records of people who were clinically dead, were revived and had a common story of life after death! The most striking a story of one such individual clinically dead for 11 minutes. A wealthy Canadian who came back a changed man no longer chasing wealth for its own sake!

I get that some don't believe?

There was a time when few believed the world was round and went around the sun! That they'd sail over the edge if they sailed too far! Abd like the claim that it all ends when you die, just entirely untrue! There are eyewitness accounts, one of which is mine!

Take heed and turn your life around to the righteous while you can! The only pain may be financial if you've lived by inherently dishonest means? Or followed false prophets?

Everyone possesses a ring of truth within! Ignore it at your peril!
Understand, believing is nothing! Knowing is everything!

Stop being an arsehole. And become a decent human being! You'll feel better for it! And like common civility, it costs nothing!

Deny the reality when you know what it is, rather than what you choose to falsely believe and espouse!
Alan B.

Alan B.,

That happened to me.

I was pronounced clinically dead but I woke up to I find myself being Mr Opinion on The Forum.

Dear Ttbn,

All the objective evidence that we share about death has to do with our bodies.
The death of our bodies is well-documented, there is nothing hidden about it.

Though many dread this total loss of their ability to function through their bodies, to assume that anything else happens to us at that time besides this obvious loss of functionality, is irrational, even superstitious.

Earlier before our body was born (or conceived, some say) we had no body, yet somehow we became involved with that newborn body and subsequently communicate with the world through it. We may not understand how it happened, but that is a fact nevertheless whether we understand it or not. Now to assume that this could happen once and only once, is silly and so unlikely - it is like believing that we could tie our shoe-laces once and only once. If we did something once, or if it happened once, then all chances are that it could be done again or will happen many times over and over.

ttbn,

<<There are no answers, and there never will be for the living. And there is no difference in dogmatism of those who say that there has to an after life and those who say there is not. Nobody knows.>>

Do you understand your hypocrisy? You claim there is no difference between the dogmatism of those who affirm an after-life and those who don't. Then you give us your dogmatism: <<Nobody knows.>>

Let me introduce you to somebody who knows what happens after death. "Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life. But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back. After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power" (1 Corinthians 15:22-24).

This same author, writing under divine inspiration, affirmed: "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain" (Philippians 1:21). This kind of evidence led to this statement in the Apostles' Creed: " I believe in the resurrection of the body and life everlasting."

I know you won't like the evidence I've provided, but your "nobody knows" position is one of ignorance - even arrogance.

What was Jesus' view? He said to Martha at the time when her brother, Lazarus, was raised from the dead by Jesus, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live even if he dies, and the one who lives and believes in me will never die [i.e. will never die forever]. Do you believe this?”(John 11:25-26)

There is most definitely someone who knows and that is Jesus Christ who is alive and well.

There are a lot of people out there who suffer from schizophrenia, and if you haven't lived with one, as I have, then you are not qualified to argue. The Bible is full of stories written by them. I suspect there might be a few on here too.

David

Meanwhile this reference introduces a unique Illuminated Understanding of death, or more correctly the death message, and a critique of the usual inadequate responses to what death requires of us.
http://www.beezone.com/death_message.html

VK3,

<<There are a lot of people out there who suffer from schizophrenia, and if you haven't lived with one, as I have, then you are not qualified to argue. The Bible is full of stories written by them. I suspect there might be a few on here too.>>

Please direct me to 5 narratives in the Bible that are among the "full of stories" written by schizophrenics.

Mr Opinion

<<What happens to your soul after death?>>

What evidence could you provide that human beings have a soul? Please convince us. I'm open to pursuing this discussion with you.

Ozpen
Isaiah 6:1
In the year of King Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple.

Act 10:11
And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

Act 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Rev 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Rev 10:1
And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
And I live among a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.”

The Book of Revelation is full of it.
David

I expect and firmly believe in life after death and I know that I shall suffer no disappointment and furthermore I can logically prove my belief.

Dear Is Mise,

Definitely, if you lived your life well, which I believe you have, then you shall suffer no disappointment upon the death of your body.

OzSpen,

Goodness gracious, you must be the only person on The Forum who believes anything I say.

Mr Opinion,

<<Goodness gracious, you must be the only person on The Forum who believes anything I say.>>

Are you recommending I never interact with you again?

What are your criteria so I know you are being factual/truthful or bearing false witness?

Aren't you here to tell the truth about yourself and what you believe?

Is Mise,

<<I expect and firmly believe in life after death and I know that I shall suffer no disappointment and furthermore I can logically prove my belief.>>

What brings you this certainty? To which place will you go at death? Is there only one place?

OzSpen,

I think you have got me mixed up with Rene Descartes.