A very long article, Ozspen with lots and lots of links to follow through if the reader wants to.

It may be true that more people have died from the flu (after having had a flushot), than people who get the Chinese Virus. Which may lead one to conclude that the Chinese Virus is less injurious to us than the flu. However just going by that I read on the internet (which may or may not be accurate (who would know?)), people who contract the Chinese Virus can be left with ongoing serious health problems, like nerve damage, chronic diarrhea etc etc.

So my take at this stage is we should take it seriously and not just assume it is no more significant than the common flu. Thanks for your thoughts.

thanks Spencer. Alan Jones will be shown to be right as he is on most topics. He did predict the coalitions victory despite every left leaning organisation having egg on their face. Really the National cabinent, destruction of economy, the lockdowns and hysteria will go down in history as our PM's biggest failure. The Premiers actions are verging on tyranny and the sad part is that the harder they lock their states down the more popular they are. Our grandkids are going to look back on a very cowardly generation.

Question-based on a completely false premise, I believe, by a patently partisan numbskull, whose actual knowleged about infectious disease could be written on the back of a postage stamp, using a crowbar dipped in tar, for a pen!?

You'll have a nice day now, y'hear.
Alan B.

Runner. Better that world suspect you are a fool than open your mouth to remove all doubt.

Q. How do we know runner is on the level?
A. He dibbles equally out of both sides of his mouth.

You'll have a nice day now, y'hear.
Alan B.

The whole suite of strategies used to prevent Covid-19 from spreading across Australia should have been released months ago to provide the evidence to implement these policies.
Spencer gear,
Then why didn't you alert us all about this months ago ?

Alan Jones speaks the truth. Since when are we "shocked" by the truth! People do die from the common flu and, given the cock up the medical public servants and politicians have made with the China virus, it would not be at all surprising if old people were still dying of it, not the China virus.

We all know that Morrison has wrecked the economy; it's a bore hearing that fact repeated all the time. He might get his comeuppance at the next election, but that will just saddle us with Labor. We simply do not have the right people in politics in this country. Australia is rooted.

Any thinking person has known from the outset what Spencer Gear has apparently just discovered. It's too late now to repair the damage. Our useless Prime Minister has just realised that there is a threat to our sovereignty from China, and is now pretending to want to prevent further incursions. He is probably a bit too late there, too

The only way to deal with the WuFlu is to develop a vaccine against it.

Until that happens it will be a game of Russian roulette with lockdowns and restrictions and an acceptance that we might never rid ourselves of the pandemic and this is how we and probably future generations will have to live.

WARNING: DO NOT TRUST THE RUSSIANS AND CHINESE TO GIVE YOU THEIR VACCINES.

The Inspector,

<<People who contract the Chinese Virus can be left with ongoing serious health problems, like nerve damage, chronic diarrhea etc etc.>>

In the journal, newsGP, there was an article, 'What are the long-term health risks following COVID-19?' http://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/what-are-the-long-term-health-risks-post-covid-19

Dr Evelyn Lewin pointed out that around 30% of patients who were in intensive care for Covid-19 may have long-term pulmonary [lung] damage. 'Up to half of patients treated for the virus in intensive care units (ICUs) may be left with ‘persistent physical, cognitive and psychological impairments’, including chronic fatigue'.

However, 99% of Covid cases in Australia did not involve treatment in ICU.

Covid is a serious disease but so are Dengue, HIV/AIDS and Malaria for which there are still no vaccines.

For Covid-19, 'Australia’s pandemic death toll has hit 654 with the announcement of 41 more deaths, all of them in Victoria', http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/coronavirus-cases-data-reveals-how-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704?nw=0

The major issue continues to be: Where is the evidence that closing borders, preventing movement by people from certain suburbs, 2 weeks in quarantine (lockdowns), and keeping children out of school works? I'm waiting to read researched evidence, especially in light of the statement by Professor Mark Woolhouse, an epidemiologist at the University of Edinburgh, who is advising the British Government on Covid-19. He said that there is no proof that Covid-19 is transmitted from pupil to teacher in school anywhere in the world (with one exception in Australia), http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8548461/No-proof-teacher-caught-Covid-19-pupil-scientist-says.html

OZpen, thank you! All viruses CAN leave people with horrible effect and this has been know for over one hundred years. Nice try at frightening but it will not work on adults just the weak minded.
This whole exercise is to reduce Australia to a fascist state especially in Victoria. Weaken us with debt and the Chinese can come to our rescue and buy us all out. Stop all travel for us and enable just the elites to enjoy themselves. Still good news is what has been stolen from us can be reclaimed from the scum on your side of politics mate!

Good to see tens of thousands of Brits now protesting against the tyranny taking place. The petty names from the lying liberal media and gullible calling people coviodiots, conspiracy theorist and other derogatory names simply shows the elite and sheep have no answers as they make it up as they go along. The state with our most draconian lockdowns now for about 7 weeks is leading the way in deaths (a record today) here in Australia. And lets not forget the democrat states in the US that also loved the lockdowns with the highest death rates. Wake up people. Your children's freedom is at stake.

Would someone please explain: http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=~SWE

Whatever future health complications that may or may not arise for hospitalised cases, the path forward should remain the same, i.e. matching the rate of infection to the capacity of the health system. Eradication is a pipe-dream.

Locking down and awaiting a vaccine, while simultaneously asserting naturally acquired immunity is not possible, is pointlessly stupid and ignores the evidence of Sweden.

It's time to see that life-shortening is a product of any route we take but ours is destroying our economy and national finances along with it.

Thank goodness China still wants our iron and gold is running high or we'd be even more cactus. What a mess, with state governments able to afford boldly stupid, populist (due to hysterical fear-mongering) isolationist and lockdown policies while the Feds (future generations) pick up the tab. We'll be borrowing into the future to pay for hospitals, welfare, social housing, education etc. and be forced to make some bad deals with the devil.

We're building a huge intergenerational debt because we are too cowardly to directly face what is, very clearly now, a much less deadly virus than first thought. Clinging onto the fact that some might carry health complications forward embellishes the cowardice.

Alan B,

You didn't read my article carefully, did you?

<<Question-based on a completely false premise, I believe, by a patently partisan numbskull, whose actual knowleged about infectious disease could be written on the back of a postage stamp, using a crowbar dipped in tar, for a pen!?>>

Are you speaking about Alan Jones or me?

Alan Jones cited experts in the field of epidemiology: (1) Professor Mark Woolhouse, an epidemiologist at the University of Edinburgh, is advising the British Government on Covid-19. He said that there is no proof that Covid-19 is transmitted from pupil to teacher in school anywhere in the world (with one exception in Australia), http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8548461/No-proof-teacher-caught-Covid-19-pupil-scientist-says.html. (2) Top disease expert, Professor of theoretical epidemiology at Oxford University. Sunetra Bupta, scolded Australia for its 'selfish' and 'self congratulatory' lockdown tactics. She urged us to embrace a Swedish-style herd immunity strategy to fight Covid-19.

Alan Jones called upon the top epidemiologists in the world to arrive at his conclusions regarding the spread of Covid-19. Jones' actual knowledge of Covid-19 is gained from world specialists and not according to your pejorative 'back of a postage stamp' view.

Tell us what needs to be done NOW, not wait till politicians make a move & then you bleat wrong again !

Luciferace,

<<Eradication is a pipe-dream>>

I agree, as it is with HIV/AIDS, Malaria, etc. We need to get used to living with the threats and not propping up the economy with handouts.

<< What a mess, with state governments able to afford boldly stupid, populist (due to hysterical fear-mongering) isolationist and lockdown policies while the Feds (future generations) pick up the tab. We'll be borrowing into the future to pay for....>>

You have stated this so well. Since I live in Qld and there is a State election on 31 October this year, how many Queenslanders are prepared to make this an election issue? We seem to have accepted border closures, quarantine and the closing down of businesses as the norm. My message to my local MP and the Qld government is: 'You have wrecked our economy with border closures and lockdowns, but the flu kills more people than Covid-19. Why are you pursuing policies to wreck the State's businesses? End the eradication plan immediately. Open the businesses and encourage the wearing of face masks - except when eating food'.

the same people who want State borders jammed shut on their fellow Australians wanted open borders for illegals. Where is Stegall, Phelps and the other regressives hiding?

individual,

<<Tell us what needs to be done NOW, not wait till politicians make a move & then you bleat wrong again !>>

Block the downtown streets with signs: (1) 'Open borders immediately'; (2) 'Quarantine doesn't work'; (3) 'Open all business with unlimited numbers'.

The main theme for these protests is: 'The flu kills more people than Covid-19'.

The main message is NOT Qld has a low infection rate BUT the Qld government has sent so many businesses to the wall.

The way back is not going to be easy for Qld, which has a low infection rate, closed borders, quarantine, a wrecked economy and high unemployment rate: 'Queensland data was reported at 8.630 % in Jul 2020. This records an increase from the previous number of 7.892 % for Jun 2020', http://www.ceicdata.com/en/australia/unemployment-rate/unemployment-rate-queensland

ABC News, Brisbane, 6 August 2020, reported: 'Tourism operators said shutting the border to nearly 8 million residents from New South Wales and the ACT could potentially decimate their struggling businesses, with a mass of cancellations.... Operators like Janita Hanwood, who runs a border cafe at Coolangatta, said no matter which way you looked at it, it was a lose-lose situation.... "I'd say we've lost at least 50 per cent of our business and we're expecting that to stay like that for a long time until everything sorts itself out" ', http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-06/coronavirus-queensland-border-closure-business-local-by-surprise/12525210

OzSpen,
A dreadful dilemma indeed. I wonder what the real figures actually are regarding financial loss in the tourism industry. The real losses vs the anticipated profits which are portrayed as losses rather than less profit.
In any event, the down-turn of so much business will haunt the Nation & indeed the World for a long time yet. I pity the citizens of those Nations who are indebted to China. I'm sure some will actually re-think their import dependencies. Australia should too !
Now is the time to pressure Govt to ease the exorbitant Registration & permit fees.
Govt fees are a huge, unrealistic & unwarranted burden on business & general citizens alike.
As are high ranking bureaucrat salaries which are of no apparent benefit to Taxpayers.

'Why are you pursuing policies to wreck the State's businesses?'

Where's Jesus when you need him Spencer?
He'd be busy upturning the tables over at your place.

On the one hand we have people dying
On the other we have lost profits

- Spencers upset over the caash -

If you want money buy some crypto
Put it in a liquidity pool earn interest paid on every block mined
Keep the asset use it as collateral to buy more crypto

Ethereum's low in march was $89 it was $430 today
yearn finance $YFI was $3000 3 weeks ago, high of $38,880 this morning.
Massive gains in crypto everywhere you look.
Go over to http://www.coingecko.com/en and click the 7 day tab to see the biggest gainers.

http://nakamoto.com/beginners-guide-to-defi/
http://academy.binance.com/

'Where's Jesus when you need him Spencer?
He'd be busy upturning the tables over at your place.'

these guys who quote the One they claim not to believe can't see their own hypocrisy. Well at least you ain't pushing your anti semitic nonsense Armchair.

Just another day in boomers paradise Australia.
This China flu reaction's simply more of the same of what we always do.
Everyone gets restricted for fear of the odd example. Every time.

Trying to think of early examples I witnessed. Cracker night comes to mind. Think the paper said a kid suffered a burn, somewhere, and a dog barked, so the best thing for all the other kids and dogs was to never enjoy that night again.
Think about it a bit and you can make quite a list of examples.
Bureaucracy grows a bit each time. Then has to keep reminding of it's essentialness.

There's a bit of irony with the current bout of restriction addiction and another not so long ago. Up until not many years ago any of us could go to a pharmacy any buy really effective cold and flu symptom relief without question. In fact you'd be offered the latest and strongest with enthusiasm. Not now.
Damn even the poor hayfever and allergy sufferer gets treated like a convicted repeat drug offender for the crime of asking for the one (very safe) product that really works.
And now it's effective pain relief we're denied.
All for our safety from rumored baddies and our own incapacity to make rational decisions, apparently.

Nope, the covid crazy's just par for the course. And yet another from our over glorified tribal witch doctor health professionals and the nervous villagers who trust them blindly.

Hey runner,

"these guys who quote the One they claim not to believe can't see their own hypocrisy."

Though I do understand it's kind of wrong for me to use religion to bolster my own arguments when I'm agnostic, on the other side of it, why is it wrong?

What you should understand is that it wasn't necessarily my hypocrisy anymore than I was pointing out Spencer's hypocrisy.

Tell me what's worse: when a Christian acts in an non-Christian way, or when a non-Christian acts in a Christian way?

I oppose the harm to others, Spencer opposes people not being able to do what they think is right in their eyes.
- The opposite of what he usually babbles about -

You oppose any criticism towards Christians.
I think all criticism is fair if it holds merit.

I'm just showing Spencer how he acts the exact same way as he claims to oppose.

A lifetime of devotion to Christian principles:
About as fake as a piece of McDonald's cheese.
Moral compass spinning wildly like a boat in a storm in the Bermuda triangle.

Nonsense, that's absolutely right.
There's a whole lot of nonsense in 2020.
It's pretty much ALL THERE IS.
- And it's my criticism of Israel and Judaism that upsets you the most?

Do Christians oppose truth now?
I'm not sure I've told lies.

It's not my fault you love Israel unconditionally as part of your own religion.
It's not my fault you've got Jewish coloured glasses to view the world.

I'll criticism anything, if the issue in question holds merit.

You lot are impossible, you know that? Why?
Because your assumed morals come from a book which people read and frequently lose all sense of themselves.

Was looking at $TCT yesterday, knew they were going to up waiting on good news release to market.
They were less than a cent and a half yesterday.
High of 3.4 cents just after midnight last night.

That's a 130% gain, overnight.
I got tired and went to bed early.
http://www.binance.com/en/trade/TCT_USDT?layout=pro

Sky News host Alan Jones says when it comes to Australia’s COVID-19 response, governments across all levels have “done nothing but ignite fear and alarmism and anxiety", http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/australias-spirits-have-been-crushed-by-its-covid19-response-alan-jones/video/f97a6b3caf3cc4194e51f8a8b110a265

'You oppose any criticism towards Christians.
I think all criticism is fair if it holds merit.'

No Armchair if someone is loved by everyone and not criticised (especially by god deniers and religous and non religous bigots) I doubt whether their faith is worth much. Jesus was constantly criticised and so will anyone standing for righteousness. To gain the approval of sinners is one thing but to gain the approval of those pushing perverted agendas especially to children just shows a lack of backbone. If you had the approval of the lying liberal media you can almost guarantee you are living a lie.

Spencer,

I think you've got the flu v. CV19 comparison wrong.

The flu deaths you talk about in the article are for people who died OF the flu, whereas the CV19 deaths are people who died WITH the virus. Apples and oranges.

The numbers I've seen are that around 4000 died as a result of complications caused by getting the flu. That's the comparison to the official CV19 rate.

OTOH, the CDC has just announced that only 6% of those who have been counted as CV19 deaths died OF the virus. The result had, on average, 2.6 comorbidities, such as heart problem, hypertension, renal issues, lung issues etc.

So compare the CV19 deaths to the flu figures in your article, you should only count around 10% of the official Covid numbers.

Either way, the danger from the virus is vastly overstated and the lockdowns therefore utterly unnecessary.

At least the next two generations will pay for this monumental error.

mhaze,

<<I think you've got the flu v. CV19 comparison wrong. The flu deaths you talk about in the article are for people who died OF the flu, whereas the CV19 deaths are people who died WITH the virus. Apples and oranges.>>

I'm comparing apples with apples: people who died FROM the flu vs people who died FROM Covid-19.

The Oxford English Dictionary disagrees with you:

"Compare With" Or "Compare To"?

In general terms, either preposition is correct, but the choice depends partly on meaning and partly on grammar. In addition, American English generally prefers to when there is a choice, whereas in British English the two different constructions are more evenly spread.

Let’s look first at the meaning of each phrase. To compare can be defined broadly as "to estimate the similarity or difference between things." For example:

Individual schools compared their facilities with those of others in the area.

It is difficult to compare our results to studies conducted in the United States.

In this meaning, either preposition can be used, http://www.lexico.com/grammar/compare-with-or-compare-to

mhaze,

<<The flu deaths you talk about in the article are for people who died OF the flu, whereas the CV19 deaths are people who died WITH the virus. Apples and oranges.>>

I think you're barking up the wrong tree with trying to differentiate the prepositions OF from WITH. Here's why:

OF :
Of (to indicate relating to, belonging to) — I always dreamed of being famous.
Of (to indicate reference) — This is a picture of my last birthday.
Of (to specify the number or an amount) — A good number of people understand Hindi, http://medium.com/@english_grammar/how-to-use-preposition-in-english-grammar-on-at-in-of-for-2fdb11e80029

The Cambridge Dictionary provides these definitions for:
WITH
With meaning ‘in the same place as’

With means ‘in the same place as someone or something’ or ‘accompanying’:

She arrived with her boyfriend.

I don’t like tea with milk.

There was a free phone with the car.

With: reactions and feelings

With often follows adjectives which refer to reactions and feelings:

Are you happy with your music lessons?

The teacher got angry with them because they were behaving badly.

I’m delighted with this new jacket.

With meaning ‘using’

We use with to refer to what we use to do something:

They opened the package with a knife.

I’ll tie it with some tape to keep it closed.

He cleaned the table with a cloth he found in the kitchen.

With meaning ‘because of’
Spoken English:

We use with to mean ‘because of’ or ‘as a result of’. This is especially common in speaking:

With all this work, I’d better stay in tonight.

I couldn’t sleep with the noise of the traffic.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/with

Where is the brains trust when you need it to explain http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=~SWE

With an infection fatality rate of probably 0.25%, we have completely effed this country for a generation or two, thanks to a hysterical and cowardly response our forebears would be ashamed of. To think that some gave their lives for us to be so gutless.

What a bunch of sops we have here as representative of the nationally scared $hitless, can't even address a graph that stares them in the face!

God help us in a war with China. Let's be sure we line up to equitably have our heads parted from our bodies.

"The result had, on average, 2.6 comorbidities, such as heart problem, hypertension, renal issues, lung issues etc."

I'd say these co-morbidities matter not.
So what if you have heart problems, hypertensions, renal issues, lung issues... So what?
You were still above ground, in the land of the living with those existing health issues.
If you had pre-existing health issues and COVID-19 is too much for you to fight off and you end up dying,

- Then COVID-19 killed you -

But wait it gets worse.

If someone else didn't give a rats arse to follow COVID restrictions, didn't self isolate when sick etc. then they are guilty of spreading the damn thing to others through their selfishness.

On the other hand, it's everyones responsibility to protect themselves first, and then others second from harm.
Some people think the loss of finances is worse than getting sick, but not all are in the same boat.
Some who get sick will die.

Some think a price can be put on life.

How much is your life worth?
How much of a price would you be willing to pay to save someone elses?
How much a price would you pay to not die?

How much in $ is a life worth?

200 billion dollars
- Enough to almost bankrupt a nation, in all fairness -
25 million people divide by 200 billion dollars
- $8000 each.

Does anyone here want to try and argue that anyone else's life here in this forum is worth less than $8000?

Lets start with you Spencer and then you mhaze.
Is your life worth $8000 to either of you?
or maybe is it worth $8000 to those who care about you?

I'm not rich, I might've been had I bought that coin, (and a few more) it just kept on going... nearly 300% gain in a day, but that's another story...

I ain't rich, but if I had the money, I'd spend 8 grand a piece to save all your lives, if that's what the price was.

- $8000 each.
mhaze,
i've had experience with people who aren't worth even that much yet they enjoy the protection of our authorities & even pay them more than ten times the average wage.
Did you know that more money, our money that is, is spent on criminals & other useless by the many useless in authority than on the genuine needy, many of whom are victims of those very useless in those authorities ?
COVID-19 was spread by people unknowingly but we know that there are people who spread the virus either deliberately & or because of their indifference towards others & just utter selfishness. They're not harshly enough dealt with !

AC, while you are talking money a correction. You're not saving 25 million lives but ~0.25% (IFR) of the percentage of the population required to be infected to achieve HI. That's now established at probably less than ~30% (if appropriate behaviours are adopted) so you can distribute that 200 billion over ~20000, i.e. 100K each to maintain to reach their normal length. However, no point in that because 20000 lives will be shortened whatever we do. You see, the virus doesn't care how it takes its pound of flesh, in one mouthful or many. It's more patient than we are as evidenced by Victoria, NZ, Japan, Korea, some ex-posterchildren for eradication.

An intergenerational debt of 200 billion, 300 billion, a trillion, where does it end? What of lives both shortened and of poorer quality due to years of isolation, border closures and lockdown? By what justification is this ignored?

Does anyone have the figures of COVID-19 casualties in countries where hospitalisation is of a lesser standard than here ?
What is happening to all other medical cases since COVID-19 has hijacked the daily headlines ?
Are there any figures of infections transmitted on flights lately ? Surely there are reports & figures besides Dan Andrews ? Does COVID-19 only attack the respiration system of normal people & only the brains of Australian journalists ?

Hey Luciferase,
Your arguments seem valid enough.
"However, no point in that because 20000 lives will be shortened whatever we do."

I don't know, maybe you're right.
But we had to try, didn't we?

We can't just do nothing and pick 20,000 names out of a hat and say you lot have been nominated to pay the ultimate price.

Hurry up and just die already, so the rest of us can get on with it.

I don't like the idea of peoples lives being shortened on terms other than their own.
Like if you want to check out by your own hand there's nothing to stop you.
But when some foul foreign disease wants to dictate these terms surrounding your existence I'll stand against that.

You have a right to not be killed by some foreign lab people working within gain-of-function of live viruses.

individual,

Take a read of what's happening in India: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/about-400-million-workers-in-india-may-sink-into-poverty-un-report/articleshow/75041922.cms

AC, that 100K each doesn't factor in the effects on everyone else of border closures, isolation, lockdowns. For example, what of suicidal business owners who've lost their houses and and owe money left right and centre? Don't you care about them just because suicide is a choice? We don't need Sentimental Blokes making the decisions at this time, the facts and likelihoods are in and action is needed.

Again, note http://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?time=2020-08-11..latest&country=~SWE not a death in days but life pretty much normal compared with Victoria.

Wouldn't be quite so bad running up this fear debt if the constraints on economic activity were being removed.
Someone mentioned above and I agree the permit, licencing and accreditation fad's killing us and there's no sign of any intention to start winding it back. It's only extortion anyway.
If fear's our driving force I suppose the question should be do we want an orderly reordering and recovery or a disorderly one.
Most likely we're all going to get this China flu and the'll be no useful vaccine.

Jamo said- "the permit, licencing and accreditation fad's killing us and there's no sign of any intention to start winding it back. It's only extortion anyway."

Answer- Ex-Communist Trotskyite James Burnham (friend of Leon Trotsky apparently) in the 40's said that this "Managerialism" was the future of "Communism" and the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Burnham

the UN's labour body has warned.

OzSpen,
Well, the UN crowd still get paid & still cost the World a fortune so, making statements like that comes easy for them !
Let the UN staff get paid the same as the people in whose countries they interfere ! That'd guarantee positive action !

"For example, what of suicidal business owners who've lost their houses and owe money left right and centre? Don't you care about them just because suicide is a choice?"

Of course I care about their situation, their plight;
The impact COVID and the restrictions are having on peoples lives.
I don't gain anything from other peoples hardship.
It's not in my best interests for those around me to be doing it tough.
I want everybody to be on top of things.

When I mentioned people taking their own life, I didn't mean it in the context of people who actually are doing so during COVID.
I meant it in the context of 'living and dying on your own terms', as opposed the virus's (or anything else's) terms.

As for those who are commiting suicide during COVID;
I feel bad for them and whatever they're going through.
I don't want them to kill themselves.

- But I've got to weigh that up.

They CHOSE to do it.
Say I'm sitting here thinking I'd really like some McDonald's.
And say someone brought me that McDonald's, I should be happy I got what I wanted right?

They WANTED to kill themselves.
They got what they wanted, in the same way as if someone brought me the Macca's I was hypothetically craving.

I had a mate that killed himself, years back.
Laid in front of a train..
So what do we think after he's gone?
"I wish I could've done something to prevent that outcome, but whatever was bothering him so much that he felt that was the only was out, well at least he's not suffering anymore."

I've got to weight that against:
Someone who diligently followed the rules, and obeyed restrictions,
And who most certainly does not want to die, least of all because of someone else's selfish attitude to be lax on restrictions, because a/ it interferes with their lifestyle, b/ cannot manage their finances better.

The bottom line is the person who kills themselves got to choose.
The person who dies in their bed of COVID has no such choice.

You do have a choice with Covid, AC, quarantine yourself while HI is attained. In Sweden over-70's are advised to do so (gov't has a role here in which it has failed in some nursing homes, as happened in Sweden too). It would be immensely more affordable to spend on helping those who need it to quarantine rather than hibernating the economy and daily life of the vast majority, with attendant consequences.

Where are we going? http://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/victoria-police-filmed-handcuffing-pregnant-woman-over-anti-lockdown-facebook-post-c-1286738?fbclid=IwAR1jqerMqEyfkeH8gxHGU_iKP4vB7sJTjzFDHkE0lhgG9O5PBxL8q4wYTxk

In Sweden over-70's are advised to do so (gov't has a role here in which it has failed in some nursing homes, as happened in Sweden too).
Luciferase,
So, the nursing home people aren't expected to think for themselves ? They need to wait to hear from Govt before they take precautions ? I just pray our bureaudroids in Hospitals are endowed with an ounce of the sense needed for basic thinking !
Thank God the medical people think !

Thanks CM. Yes that term "Managerialism" fits pretty well.

Seems to be what the argument always is. Some argue for state meddling in all affairs and others against because it's stifling unnecessary misdirected wrong and expensive. Every time.

Repeating myself but this hyper reaction to the china flu is just another exercise in Managerialism.

I suppose "Management" can't let go. Ever. Can't risk being unessential.

Dear mhaze and Lucifrase,

Here are the June quarter drops in GDP for the hard lock down Scandinavian countries, then Australia, then Sweden.

Finland 4.5%

Norway 5.1%

Denmark 6.9%

Australia 7.0%

Sweden 8.5%

Sweden was the standout worse of the lot. Economists have been saying how much of an impact letting the virus loose would have. This is now starkly bourne out by these figures.

You guys will of course want to kick the can down the road yet again asserting some drivel like “well the Swedes have got the pain over early and the next quarter will be better”.

Naturally this hasn't been the argument you were using up until now but idiocy is at the very least adaptable and often knows no bounds.

warning warning. No more people allowed to drive cars. They must be home by 8pm each night and the death toll for road accidents will be reduced to zero. The science is settled. What a dumbed down mob of sheep we have allowed the dictators to produce.

Well written Spencer,

It would also seem that the "China Virus" is quick becoming a great vehicle for many other "Agendas".

Fear induced by the media continues to control the mindset of many whilst "critical thinking" and "balanced invetigation" is being treated with disdain.

Keep fighting the good fight and stand firm.

warning warning. No more people allowed swim in the ocean. You may be eaten by a shark. The science is settled. The 'experts say so! What a dumbed down mob of sheep we have allowed the dictators to produce.

SteeleRedux,

<<You guys will of course want to kick the can down the road yet again asserting some drivel like “well the Swedes have got the pain over early and the next quarter will be better”.>>

If you read my article carefully, you will find that is not what I recommended: 'What's the alternative? Is there a national policy for Australia to emulate? The model set by Taiwan, with a similar size population to Australia (23.8 million), is worth considering.... It is important to remember that Taiwan learned its strategy as a result of the SARS epidemic in 2003. Thus, it was more prepared for the Covid-19 outbreak than many countries.As a result of these strict measures taken, there have been 487 Covid-19 cases; 462 recovered; and there have been only 7 deaths.

See: http://theconversation.com/what-coronavirus-success-of-taiwan-and-iceland-has-in-common-140455, http://www.dw.com/en/taiwan-coronavirus/a-52724523, and http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/taiwan/

Dear OzSpen,

I did read your article and it was one of the most piss poor efforts I have seen from any author in the past year.

Your complete and utter disregard for treating statistics with any degree of honesty was astounding. I am hoping it was done through incompetence rather than wilfully. Either way it is inexcusable.

You posted “How do the flu deaths (with a vaccine) compare with Covid-19 deaths? 'As at 3pm on 12 August 2020, a total of 22,127 cases of COVID-19 have been reported in Australia, including 352 deaths, and 12,774 have been reported as recovered from COVID-19' (Australian Government: Department of Health). There you have it: 705 influenza-related deaths in Australia in 2019. To date, there have been 313 Covid-19 related deaths. So, flu deaths (even with a vaccine) account for double the number of Covid-19 deaths.”

Nowhere in that did you state the number of flu cases. How many more than the 22,127 COVID cases? 10 times? 20 times? 30 times? Nor did you state the number of people who have recovered from it.

In 2019 there were 313,085 confirmed flu cases in Australia. This did not include the numbers who just rode it out at home and did not get tested. Estimates put that at least double those confirmed, of course there was not any widespread public testing of asymptomatic of mild cases as there has been with Covid.

You also didn't relate just how effective the lock down has been in reducing flu cases and flu deaths this year. As of August there were only 21,094 reported cases of the flu. You really need to add the vast reduction in flu deaths on the plus side of the ledger for this lockdown.

But you won't because your ideology prevents it.

As to the growing debt I would have a lot more time for your bleatings if you had once raised the issue of the Coalition doubling Australia's debt without the excuse of a global financial crisis or a pandemic. A cursory look shows nothing. Is there a single instance?

To Jamo- Yes the Covid response- especially the extreme one in Victoria- seems to have impacted critical economic structures- I would have thought they could have managed this aspect better. Even in WWII London they drew up lists of people and they worked the area- despite the bombed roads. If the economy doesn't keep limping along there will be significant long term impact- that like Corona will be measured by lives. I've heard and seen a few cases of the tyranny of managerialism (and Communism, political correctness, wokeness, etc, etc) in employment. Teaching is one example. It's interesting the types that are chosen to manage the licensing regimes and the ideology.