SteeleRedux,

<<Jesus was not a God but rather a gifted and extraordinary teacher who hated and exposed hypocrites. I am attempting to emulate that part of his efforts where I can and this thread is one of those places.>>

The Scriptures refute your statement. Of Jesus they state, 'In the beginning was the Word [Jesus], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning' (John 1:1). Philippians 2:6 confirms that Jesus was more than a gifted teacher: 'Though he was in the form of God, [he] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped'.

C.S. Lewis was for many years a professor of Medieval and Renaissance Literature at Cambridge University and once an atheist. He understood these claims of Jesus as God or something else ('extraordinary teacher') and wrote:

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the son of God: or else a madman or something worse (Lewis, Mere Christianity,1943:55-56), http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/apologetics/mere-christianity/Book2/cs-lewis-mere-christianity-book2.php

Then Lewis added: “You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to" (loc. cit.).

A statement about Jesus being "a gifted and extraordinary teacher" obscures the fact he was and is God.

SteeleRedux,

<<Isn't that elite Christ?>>

Jesus' washing his disciples' feet in the upper room during the Last Supper (John 13:17) was an act of humility and demonstrated his servanthood.This was not the ministry of any elite Christ.

One day everyone, including you and me, will bow down and proclaim Jesus as King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Book of Revelation 17:14; 19:16). We won't proclaim him as 'the elite Christ' but as One who has the power to exercise absolute dominion over His realm. For Christ, this will be over all creation.

Jesus will return to judge the world and establish his earthly kingdom as He predicted in Mark 13:26, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mk+13%3A26&version=NIVUK

Dear Ozpen,

The cult around Jesus was one of the many which sprang up during the Roman occupation of Palestine. That it prevailed was a testament to Jesus' teachings. John was the last Gospel written and the fact that its providence was after the Jewish rebellion and the destruction of the temple explains why the claims within are so spectacular.

That you and Mr Lewis find sustenance from said cult is fine. Whatever gets you through the day. You can go about telling all and sundry what you believe in but you really don't get to pass it off as fact.

'Jesus was a part of the Trinity. Why? Because his cult says he was.' doesn't really fly does it.

As to the elitism of Lewis this is a good example;

“Enemy-occupied territory-that is what this world is. Christianity is the story of how the rightful king has landed, you might say landed in disguise, and is calling us all to take part in a great campaign of sabotage. When you go to church you are really listening-in to the secret wireless from our friends: that is why the enemy is so anxious to prevent us from going. He does it by playing on our conceit and laziness and intellectual snobbery.”

In other words 'That which is not of Christ is of the world and therefore evil'.

By the way the elitism doesn't come from Christ but from his followers. The Gospel of John is a prime example. Go read Mark, far more earthy and humble.

What Jesus was able to impart through his parables was an antidote to a calcified Jewish faith twisted by the vicissitudes of Roman occupation.

While those teachings didn't have the deep wisdom presented in the Old Testament they were extraordinary for their time and should always be acknowledged as such. That their tenets influenced the likes of Gandhi and Mandela should bare witness to their power. But they don't make him God.

SteeleRedux,

<<That you and Mr Lewis find sustenance from said cult is fine. Whatever gets you through the day. You can go about telling all and sundry what you believe in but you really don't get to pass it off as fact.>>

I know the difference between those who investigate the history of the Bible, including Jesus and early Christianity - and those who dump their anti-Christian presuppositions on us.

You fall into the latter category.

yep typcial Steelie, refuse the invitation to have all your sin forgiven and then claim elitism for those humble enough to do so. You really do twist everything to fit your narrative.

Dear Ozspen,

You wrote; “I know the difference between those who investigate the history of the Bible, including Jesus and early Christianity - and those who dump their anti-Christian presuppositions on us.”

No you obviously don't. What did I say that constituted an anti-christian presupposition as opposed to an investigation of the history of the Bible?

Was it a reference to a cult?”

Well a cult is “a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.”

That Christianity is now considered a religion is a given, but it certainly started as one of the many cults that existed in that time.

I happily refer to myself, when asked, as a cultural Christian. I have a real affection for the Bible and will take issue with anyone misusing it as you appear to want to do.

If that gets your nose out of joint then so be it.