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The Forum > Article Comments > The sinister side of the nanny state > Comments

The sinister side of the nanny state : Comments

By David Leyonhjelm, published 19/2/2020

Not many of us like being told how to live our lives, especially by those we don’t know and trust. It gets up our nose.

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Should we have the right to have our brains splattered over the roadway after a motorcycle accident while not wearing a helmet? No.
Should I have a right to fresh air as a non smoker? Yes.

Should I have the right to complain about such laws? Yes.

Dave, burying his attachment to the tobacco and alcohol industry is a shallow dig.
:-).

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 19 February 2020 8:14:17 AM
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There is no "almost unique". It is unique, or isn't. And, the taxes on tobacco and alcohol are voluntary; only users pay. The people who use alcohol in the early hours have to be locked out because they act like animals.

There are no 'unreasonable' speed limits, and cyclists, with or without safety helmets, are idiots for riding amongst traffic.

Totally agree with the doctor and Nobel prize comments. Same with the thinking and speaking, but that is a problem caused not so much by the nanny state, but the Leftists, the Greens and idiot entertainers on Oscar night: buffoons like Russell Crowe, who always acts as Russell Crowe, and who has a two minute video on how we rotten people have to fix climate change. That 'Australian' actor can't actually get Australian citizenship.

If we cleared self-appointed judges and advisers out, there would be no nanny state; the corrupt and effete state just bends to the most noise.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 19 February 2020 8:58:33 AM
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just bends to the most noise.
ttbn,
In my experiences it was self preservation by mostly Labor bureaucrats !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 19 February 2020 9:52:04 AM
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Indeed David. CS Lewis captured it pretty well with this, “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
Posted by jamo, Wednesday, 19 February 2020 10:56:23 AM
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Called it in one Dan!

As for elections, just one-third of us understand politics, one third, economics and the remaining 40% who understand neither and these are the folks who elect governments, decide energy policy and buy the BS writ large on the danger of new ideas and or technology.

Thus we had the Luddites attacking the spinning Jennies with crowbars in the mistaken belief that their jobs would go?

The truth has always been, mankind has always had slaves! At one time they were human slaves, then energy was harnessed and enslaved from the water wheel to the steam engine and with every new form of energy, humankind was further freed!

But now we have stopped and it's like we are in some time warp connected to the 18th century an can't progress beyond coal-fired power because there's too much special vested interest and foreigner sovereign risk?

And David, bless his political ambitions was part of that cohort?
I Quit smoking, a disgusting filthy habit over 35 years ago. And easy as, because I genuinely wanted to quit!

Those who like David, experience alleged difficulty? Just don't want to quit/enjoy it too much!

Yes I know it is an addiction and sometimes a habit harder to break than heroin! And folk of my vintage took it up when none of the considerable health risks were made public, just the opposite!

Lots of vested interest in this space! Ditto coal and therefore lots of rearguard action and BS writ large on alternative, nuclear energy!?
TBC.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 19 February 2020 10:58:11 AM
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David: Think you may have overplayed the nanny state example here? Just because a Dr was honest enough to tell you about the health risks of a dirty, filthy habit like smoking and just how unsocial and selfish it is for smokers!

One well remembers your interaction with Sento Hansen-Young and where you were not covered in glory! Just the opposite. And instead of manning up and apologising, you just doubled down and proved beyond all doubt that you are an unmitigated R sole? All that seemed missing was a white supremacist's salute?

You could have really got up Senator Hansen-Young's nose and never needed trouble the courts or sharp Lawyers. If you had simply played the ball and not the man?

And you could have done that by being an informed advocate for unconventional nuclear power and domestic electricity of less than 3 cents PKWH! TBC.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 19 February 2020 2:58:23 PM
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Based on purely moral and philosophical principles, the author is correct: people ought to be free to hurt themselves if so they choose - still I wonder why the author repeatedly keeps providing these same extreme, repugnant or questionable examples: drugs, alcohol, smoking, shooting, while there are 1000's of other things, good things, decent things, everyday things, which the nanny state prohibits us from doing. Had the author given better examples, he could have gained so much more sympathy - and votes!

So let me pick here on one everyday example: why does the state prohibit us to hire a snake?

No, I don't mean the venomous reptile - I refer to that tool that plumbers use to clear blocked sewers.

Suppose your shower drain is blocked by weeds, hair or excess soap, so you need to get perhaps 1-2 meters inside and remove the blockage. Only a "snake" can do it.

There are places where you can hire such tools, but if you try to hire it, they will ask to see your plumber's certificate, otherwise they say "sorry, this is illegal". If you ask why, they will tell you that a non-qualified person might get their snake into their neighbour's drainage system and damage it. So nanny cannot even trust us to know how far our next-door neighbour is (much more than 1-2 meters) and where our private sewers could end.

Thus we are forced to pay a plumber $100 instead of doing this simple job ourselves for about $20.

What is called "the state" is just a collection of other people. Given that none of them on their own has the natural/moral right to force me to hire a plumber, what then gives them such a right only because they join their forces?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 19 February 2020 5:37:32 PM
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What's really sinister here are politicians of dubious character, who always look for a headline and that's their entire contribution?

I learned two things today, #1/ India has plans to phase out all sales of Australian coal by 2024.

#2/ That Germany has a plan to completely phase out coal by retraining coal workers all of them for other suitable occupations. And doable in a manufacturing-based economy. Anyway, coal mining for wages has a very short time to go here given there are robots in coal mines now replacing human miners and sure to accelerate with the advent of criminal manslaughter liability!

Is this also, more of the sinister side of the nanny state writ large?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 19 February 2020 7:17:46 PM
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It's official!
Aussies are the most stupid, gullible, ignorant people on the planet!
Those of you who relish the idea of all these restrictive laws, can't see we're having trouble breathing. (metaphorically)
And it's not the air, or pollution.
It's the fact that the govt has to make laws to force people to be,.......well, better people.
Now there is another stupid law that makes my injuring myself, the fault of someone in an office somewhere well away from the action.
People you are fools, childish, ignorant fools, one and all, and it is quite visible hear on OLO as a confirmation of my accusation, or charge.
Here's just one example, because we don't get enough space to give too many.
A 'roofy' once said to me, just after the law was passed that they had to secure a safety harness to the roof before they could do any work on said roof.
So he said to me, 'OK what is going to stop me from falling off when I'm beginning and finishing the job'?
Before starting the job there is no harness, when finished and coming down there's no harness.
No what the biggest joke of all is that all these pathetic Nanny laws do NOTHING to curb deaths.
In every example the death toll has increased.
People you are supposed to be adults, so stop looking for excuses to blame someone else for you being so damn stupid, irresponsible and childish.
The sad thing is, it has NOTHING to do with safety or concern for the public.
It has EVERYTHING to do with insurance companies.
They will always justify these oppressive decisions with some BS or another, in a futile attempt to justify their position or reasoning.
I am the exception to all these stupid rules and you stupid people.
I've NEVER had a road incident or what is laughingly called, an 'accident'.
I had a helmet exemption for many years, but because of jealous, snivelling, lefty idiots, who could not stand seeing someone getting an advantage, they forced law change to bring us down to their pathetic level.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 20 February 2020 7:00:09 AM
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By the way David, loved your interaction and put down on that smarmy maggot, little miss"two-dads".
I dislike her beyond what anyone would call reasonable.
I wish you had done her a lot more harm than I recall.
She is typical of her ilk, arrogant, self indulgent, and so far up herself, I imagine she enjoys it judging by her social life.
I and many others were disappointed you did not put the boot in and finish her useless "career" off while there was the opportunity.
She pretty much encompasses and is typical of maggots in places they should not be, and are not wanted or needed.
Hope you keep giving them a hard time every time they try to put down men.
Keep it up, I'm not sure where you're at these days, but it's worth knowing you have the backing of millions of men around the country, and some socially aware, broad minded women as well.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 20 February 2020 7:20:17 AM
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Yuyutsu

That's intriguing. I've never experienced a situation where I couldn't hire a snake to clear my own sewer blockage. I'd need evidence that the hire of which contravenes any state law.

There are considerable legal restrictions built around sewer systems which I would feel are quite legitimate. The reason for their legitimacy is to safeguard public health.
It is unwise allowing every jack and his dog to interfere with this important public health infrastructure, even the bit at the private domestic end in your home.

One running sore for local councils, is the illegal connection of storm water into sewer lines.

I think rules and regulations built around the need to safeguard public health are, on the most part, positive contributions. But then you do get situations where a public toilet facility, installed to support public health, are locked down during night hours, making a mockery of that.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 20 February 2020 7:55:23 AM
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Not convinced any single psych theory can cover it. Devaluing of good manners perhaps. Runaway bureaucracy and it's parent/child of rentseeking activity maybe. Attack dog journalism plays a part pressuring optics worried governments to be seen as doing something.
Much comes from genuine desire to prevent the last bad thing that happened from ever happening again, which is simply an emotional response that blocks it's ears to reason.

Some new rules look a lot like they've been created from applying a workplace safety risk and hazard assessment checklist process to activity outside the workplace sphere. If this is the case it's worse than sinister, it's dumb. Sinister at least can be countered by exposure.

It goes without saying a very small amount of regulation is beneficial. Connection to shared utilities and infrastructure is a place where some standardization and competency is necessary.
Some regulation is designed to provide a window to operate in without being sued.

However most is purely rentseeking. It's about the money. Selling licences and accreditation courses has become quite a thing. Some in industry even welcome this because they feel it'll mean fewer competitors and a requirement to buy their products.

What isn't counted is the invisible cost of economic activity prevented from ever happening. This is probably by far the largest cost
Posted by jamo, Thursday, 20 February 2020 8:52:08 AM
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Our Labor Govts will go down in history as those advocating wilful destruction of common sense !
The Coalition will go down in history as the family wreckers !
All others will go down in history as wasters of of our Taxes !
Posted by individual, Friday, 21 February 2020 7:15:43 AM
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Quite a good article and I liked the reference to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Posted by Edward Carson, Thursday, 5 March 2020 1:45:25 PM
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David, let's face it, as one of the inner circle of govt, you must admit knowing that the govt is instructed by foreigners.
Very, very wealthy foreigners.
The govt is told what to do and how to vote, like the "Bail-In" laws.
The conniving bastards waited till the house was nearly empty, and while the "One Nation" party members were out of the chamber, (because they were going to vote against it) the bastards rushed through the bill into law.
Now they deserve to be attacked physically to the point of GBH, and left out to die, just like they have done to the Australian public.
What they did by changing sections of the results and recommendations by the head of the royal commission into banking, was another deceitful and dirty tactic, to appease the banks or those behind the banks, the Elite Jews, I call 'the Club'.
C,mon don't try to side step these facts.
I know you can't openly criticise these bastards, risking serious retaliation, but it would be nice to put some of these theories to bed.
Can you give me any ideas as to where to look further into these acts of treason by the govt, as a whole, after all you are all in it together.
You cannot have a secret in parliament, that is a well known fact.
So it is that I ask you to give us a 'heads up', in any way you can.
The Australian public is becoming increasingly frustrated and short tempered, to the point that it won't be long before ministers become REAL targets from an increasingly abused public.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 5 March 2020 6:33:28 PM
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Perhaps the reason for the expansion of the nanny state can be attributed to other factors beside the Dunning-Kruger syndrome.

One is that politicians who need to be seen to be doing something about an issue legislate laws which have a restrictive effect on our lives, eg, the lockout laws which NSW had until recently.

The career requirements of bureaucrats and people in administrative positions also further the expansion of the nanny state. A public servant or administrator, whether in the public service or private sector or in a university needs to show that he or she has done something while in a particular position and put this into his or her CV to advance to the next step in their career. The easiest thing to do in their jobs is to promulgate a regulation or procedure in the name of safety, health, concern for likely victims or other easily identified form of compassion. They can then write this down in their CV as one of the initiatives which they undertook in their current position. Various initiatives at universities, such as “safe spaces,” and gender equality and diversity to the nth degree have been initiated by the administrations of universities rather than academics. The Dutch have a useful phrase, “carriere zucht,” which means a desire or a drive to do anything, no matter how stupid, silly, meaningless or malevolent, to advance one’s career, which encapsulates this situation in one simple phrase.

Another driver of nanny state thinking is fear of litigation and the insurance associated with it. We often complain, for example, of how unadventurous adventure parks run by local councils have become. However, we only have ourselves to blame when we are only too eager to sue councils for a small mishap such as tripping over an uncleared tree branch, falling off a jungle gym or falling off a swing. Public bodies and large companies are easy targets for litigation because they find it is less costly to pay out than to fight a litigant or because they wish to avoid publicity.
Posted by Smee Again, Saturday, 14 March 2020 4:21:10 PM
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