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The Forum > Article Comments > Let's hear it for the nation state > Comments

Let's hear it for the nation state : Comments

By Graham Young, published 17/12/2019

Congratulations to Boris Johnson. They've been comparing him to Churchill, and while it might be a little hyperbolic, this is one of the most momentous elections in world history.

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Actually Bren, the nation state was defined in the Westphalia Treaty
in 1648. It defined what a government is and what are borders.
It defined the meaning of sovereignty.
It is not recognised by China as it was not present.
This is why China just does what it likes anywhere anytime such as
the nine dotted line in the Sth China Sea.
China considers itself to be the only sovereign country.
ie the Central Kingdom.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 9:26:37 AM
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Dear Bren,

«This takes us to a more fundamental question. What is a nation?»

Excellent question:

In ancient/biblical times this referred to a group of related people who identified with their common ancestry.

In modern times, this refers to a super-imposed imaginary unity among a group of mostly-unrelated people who happen to reside in a particular area. The larger that area, likely the less commonality among them.

The author stated correctly:

"Sovereignty should remain with the demos and governance is something that should be done as close as possible to the people it directly affects", but then added: "and in most of the world, this is the nation state": pity he lacked the courage to carry his conclusion all the way rather than stopping at the "nation-state". According to the author's own admission, Australia is far too big and it is wrong to govern and "directly affect" people who live 1000's of kilometers away.

I wish the Scotts and Catalanians every success in gaining their independence. Let us also continue to pray for the freedom of the occupied people of Tibet.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 3:08:14 PM
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It seems that every generation of youngsters has to learn all over again about the flaws (to put it mildly) in socialism, and its inevitable descent into fascism.

But as well, there has been a winding-down of the strength and numbers of working classes everywhere with massive economic transformations since the War, while at the same time, their children (or at least, somebody's) go on to university education in ever-increasing numbers, and see themselves as the rightful heirs, by virtue of their evident intelligence and new competencies, of the controls of the state.

So dissatisfied workers drift across to parties like Farage's and Trump and One Nation here. And disaffected intellectuals - some from lifelong LNP/Conservative families - drift over here to the Greens rather than to Labor, and to Labour in the UK. So there is a hollowing-out of political allegiances, leaving both Labor here and Labour there depleted of traditional support and dependent on new and fickle alliances with people further up the class totem-pole.

Wouldn't be dead for quids !

Thank you, Graham !

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 3:10:16 PM
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It seems that every generation of youngsters has to learn all over again about the flaws (to put it mildly) in socialism, and its inevitable descent into fascism.
loudmouth2,
Sadly, it always takes emptied coffers before some come to their senses !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 7:17:43 PM
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Well, for me, I only care for my little corner of the world...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KjWGgaxCjnE

Thankfully, Boris, as a populist, is light years away from Thatcher, who was devoid of personality, and empathy.

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 7:20:59 PM
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Diver Dan- I don't know much about this singer but she sounds like someone I should know- she sounds like she fights the good fight against identity politics- fought against the promotion of gay identity in schools- for 60 years. Now 79 years young. Kudos.
Posted by Canem Malum, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 10:34:59 PM
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