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The Forum > Article Comments > ‘Environmentalism’ versus environmental management > Comments

‘Environmentalism’ versus environmental management : Comments

By Pedro Toranzo, published 27/9/2019

As activists, environmentalists rarely offered solutions. Rather, they promoted paralysing and non-democratic concepts.

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While I agree with your separation of environmentalism (political cult) from environmental management (the governmental bureaucracy and consultancy business). neither improve the environment much. Environmental management is big business now and supported by increasing government regulation (often written by environmental activists who can't work as consultants working behind closed doors of the bureaucracy). I am an environmental SCIENTIST who went through university using scholarships and part-time jobs in the late 1970s and was surrounded by environmentalist who wanted to talk, protest, change the world ( by force in some cases), but still had mummy and daddy to pay for their hippie Citroen 2cvs. They now have kids who are climate change cultists. Those who couldn't cope with the science became environmental management geeks. Now they think risk management, audits performance assessments will safe the planet... they will not. these consulting products are mere 'tick box' exercise, that cost a fortune, constrain innovation and make loads of money for consulting firms who feed off the government "teat".
Posted by Alison Jane, Friday, 27 September 2019 8:55:40 AM
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Yea verily yea Sir and well said. There's nothing too wrong with visiting dream o "green" castles in the clouds, but plenty when the visitors take up permanent residence!

And can only escape their self-confinement by shining a powerful beam of light at the ground then sliding down it hoping none of the other "inmates" turns the dam thing off when they're only halfway down!

All deserved levity aside, one wonders how many of these brainwashed devotees we need to ensure the predicted extinction events become our reality due to their extremely persistent recalcitrant obtuse asinine ecofascism!

If we want to decarb the global economy we need a carbon-free power/energy source all can afford including the two-thirds of global households that cannot afford a washing machine!

Over sixty million drought refugees and growing, now languish their lives away in refugee centres and hell hole camps with no prospect of ever leaving! As more and more of an overheating globe surrenders to inevitable desertification!

Brainwashed by green advocate march and protest, demand action but refuse to even look at the facts pertaining to the only energy source available to the entire world, but demand the mos expensive solutions a replacement energy solutions

And this serves the green agenda of reducing the population to just one billion, which is what they believe the natural, normalised enviroment can support! And intend to get there via natural attrition as they retreat to self-sufficiency solutions.

One hope they understand if they are even remotely successful in these outcomes they may well have to kill to retain the same for the selected green acolyte cohort!

And presumes there's some possibility of a return to situation normal and the return of the rains, like that which occurred on our sister planet, also in the habitable Goldilocks zone, Venus! Good luck with that, tree huggers! TBC
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 27 September 2019 9:13:35 AM
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We can't lead shouts the Morrison government, besides we here in Oz only produce a tad over 1% of the world's total carbon pollution! And true enough! And should we decide to eliminate all our current carbon pollution affordably and we could! China could more than replace that saving in a single day! Besides, most of our export income comes from the mining of coal, iron ore and CNG!

All of which as the increase exponentially, exponentially increase the global carbon load faster and faster as more and more is combusted and rainforest(the lungs of the earth) is destroyed at greater than a football field a day, is drying out and now subject to wildfire firestorms that wipe out all the non fire-tolerant species as this or that hard right-wing nut job seeks riches on fire-cleared land! And just madness!

Thus we are surrounded by competing madness, Green acolytes on one side and equally irrational Mannon worshippers on the other, with every sane solution tossed and trampled by the ideologically warring factions as they try and shout louder than the nut jobs they confront as a reverse mirror image!

Alan Goulding Facebook page has posted a couple of shared, public domain videos of what we need as the only energy source we have at our command, with a snowflakes chance in hell of avoiding a global extinction event!

That source is thorium, the most energy-dense material on the planet!

And the system we need to exploit it is MSR, which is not untried, but tied and tested between the fifties and seventies without accident or incident!

Nuclear energy has the lowest accompanying death toll per gigawatt of all comparable energy sources and lower than that of still too expensive and too intermittent, renewables!

Check Alan Goulding's page and the shared short interesting and informative videos and accompanying tables for validation and verification!

Recommended reading has to include Professor and economist, Robert Hargrave's book, Thorium cheaper than coal or that of prize-winning investigative Journalist and science writer, Richard Martin. Who Authored, Thorium, Super Fuel, subtitle, green energy
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 27 September 2019 10:07:46 AM
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Obviously these greenie protesters & their back to nature garbage have no idea. They push their foolishness while living cloistered lives in cities, totally protected from that nature they praise.

I would love to pick up the Greta Thunbergs & her mates & drop them just a couple of miles into the rain forest they worship in say PNG. They would doubtless die, unless rescued. Rain forests are very unpleasant places, offering little sustenance to man, & not that much more for beast. For the uninitiated they are almost impossible to traverse. A little experience of this nature in the raw would be a good education for many.

A village of a hundred can not find enough sustenance on an island of a couple of thousand acres of rich volcanic soils. However with their slash & burn agriculture, just a few acres cleared & farmed gives them all they need.

When I came back to Oz I took a drive out to the riverina. My soul needed to be somewhere where I could see for kilometers, not the few meters available in most of PNG & the islands. I'll take the man tamed landscape above natures any day, & I'm sure that, given a bit of real world experience, so would these fool kids protesting in our streets.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 27 September 2019 10:54:10 AM
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Meanwhile these references from the same book give a muchly more sobering assessment of the humanly created situation in the "21st century"
http://fearnomore.vision/world/integrity-of-the-whole

http://www.dabase.org/not2p1.htm

http://www.da-peace.org/excerpt-two-is-not-peace

http://www.priorunity.org/excerpt-no-enemies

Plus this related reference too: note the contents of the first paragraph of the main essay re the one almost unstoppable force/power which now patterns and controls every minute fraction of human "culture".

http://www.aboutadidam.org/readings/bridge_to_god/index2.html
Posted by Daffy Duck, Friday, 27 September 2019 12:54:06 PM
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Green advocates obfuscate/focus on the problems of climate change. Then having established their parametres/preferred solutions,i.e., the most expensive intermittent solutions.

Reject out of hand anything with the word nuclear included, regardless of factual information, which when it harms their narrative? Is adroitly avoided or brushed aside as of no moment.

Almost if, they want to continue to burn coal as the only available alternative to MSR and thorium. Which few green acolytes know anything at all about/constantly try to assocIate it with crises like Chernobyl/Fukushima.

Almost as if all nuclear applications are the same! When without question there's no semblance/tantamount to regarding a tiger moth as being the same animal as a 747.

Yes, they're both aircraft, but that's where any resemblance ends. MSR is just as different from traditional nuclear reactors!

The latter operate at dangerous explosive pressures as high as 150 atmospheres. The former at ambient normal atmospheric pressure, shut down automatically then self drains into holding tanks if there's any loss of power for any reason.

And have passive safety so good, the personnel could just walkway for the weekend or three or for months an then just walk back in and check on the reactor. In fact, coUld be fuelled up then welded shut for thirty or so years?

Moreover, a properly shielded reactor (easy as), a banana is more radioactive than a properly shield MSR! I've spent the last 8 plus years researching these reactors and this far more abundant and vastly less expensive fuel. The security guard out front costs more than the fuel and one handful of Mumbai sand is enough thorium to power India for one year!

This is the reason for the rejection given how much green capital is now invested in renewables, which cannot complete either on environmental grounds or deaths per gigawatts generated or efficacy as a tool to ameliorate against climate change or universal affordability.

The last the real kick in the guts for green acolytes with their not so hidden, secret agenda!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 27 September 2019 7:15:39 PM
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Greta Thunberg is my hero and I love herr determined persistence and rare ability to stay on message! One can only hope the humans in the room finally start taking notice! Given they do and start taking positive action!?

My kids and grandkids will both approve and applaud, cause like Greta, al our kids want both a future and a world better for those who passed this way before them!

Those who say, what we are experiencing now is just normal and cyclical are clearly living on another planet! One the travelled to sliding down the beam of the most powerful flashlight ever invented?

We're stuck with coal they say, as if this was the only viable energy source and export commodity the world has on offer.

And quite clearly put special vested interest/personal profits ahead of every other consideration, including the welfare and survival of Greta's generation!

Those who cannot, will not see, that the only real choice in a better climate-changed future is a climate change ameliorating carbon-free, nuclear-powered one, are dreaming, or have taken up permanent residence in dream castles in the clouds!

Energy exports can continue as before, just not as shipped coal and CNG, but as electrical current transmitted to customers countries via undersea cables with graphene cores. And too easy if we eliminate the price gouging, tax-avoiding profit repatriating imbeciles from the energy paradigm!

And replace them with a national, not for profit, publicly funded government-supervised body! And make the power in MSR's Using nuclear waste and or weapons-grade plutonium for thousands and thousands of years worth of fuel, reducing the half-lif to just 300 years in the process.

Those that can't/won't see this is the best solution on the table for both the enviroment and the economy!?

Have to have rocks in their heads or something much more smelly for brains?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 28 September 2019 10:14:09 AM
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Folk often ask, if MSR thorium is so good? Why aren't there any? Well, there was one and it worked well until the necessary recurrent funding was pulled by the paragon of virtue, Richard Nixon!

As for why there aren't any now?

Well, It's hard to invest 100 million in a thorium MSR if the technology is officially prohibited! Would any of the COAL-FIRED detractors risk their money? If they could lose it (100 million and then some) and then some more?

I mean this is not piss ant stuff and any startup by MSR thorium will be accompanied by a burst of very short-lived Gamma radiation which registers on satellite technology!

Now the states can't do much when that signal emanates from Russia or China but go bananas over purloined intellectual property etc.

Nonetheless, many nations are now investing heavily in MSR thorium R+D an include Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia, Czechoslovakia, Russia and China. And only a question of time before we have working models available for purchase, if the fossil fuel, big nuclear and big pharma protecting prohibitions are lifted!?

Let hope sanity prevails and this form of affordable safe and reliable, carbon-free power does what it can do, end the exponentially increasing carbon pollution and then start to reduce it!

Nothing else fits the bill and is affordable by all nations!

And given it is a global problem, there just has to be a globally universal solution!

And when that happens the fossil fuel barons will have had their day!

Let's hope their delaying tactics and that of their servant politicians? Doesn't allow us to cross the tipping point that makes any formerly viable solution pointless!?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Saturday, 28 September 2019 6:37:18 PM
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Where does the phenomenon of people wanting to manage everything, even the environment come from, when only one thing needs managing, those control freaks !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 29 September 2019 8:28:58 AM
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Mr Morrison's environment record speaks for itself, including taking a lump of coal into parliament!

Now wants the world to believe he's a "born again" environmentalist taking a verbal stand of plastic pollution in our oceans? So, let's talk about it some more! That'll surely be just as effective as last time and enable a lot of hot air displacement before the usual pigeonholing and dust collection!?

Perhaps he just doesn't understand, most of these things/plastic products come as a derivative of processed fossil fuel/oil?

And were he serious, the government would release Barnaby's comprehensive reports, which we paid or to the tune of a reported 600,000? Which very likely have included a taboo re-disposition to nuclear energy as representing the very best interests of a drought-ravaged bush!?

No doubt chockful of outraged control freaks who need to be controled before they kill our coal mining industry and exports!?

We've got these bar stewards down and out. And need to keep a foot on their throats until the job is done and these control freaks eliminated!?

Perhaps even as four or so suicides a week as a preferred, final, individual by individual, solution!?

Gez, that coal don't taste half good and leaves a nice methane after taste on the palate! And just so yummy!

Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 29 September 2019 10:43:13 AM
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I'm predicting when sanity prevails and official prohibitions ae lifted! That MSR thorium power plants will be mass-produced as container-sized modules and placed where there are now substations. to serve microgrids. Where graphene cored cables will replace poles and wires!

Each one of these microgrids could be controlled by small and competing for your business by competing, extremely cost-effective co-ops.

And even as governmen sponsored, funded and facilitated, free market, private enterprise?

And because we know that this form of free-market, private enterprise is the most efficient and productive. And with the lowest possible power prices ever put on any economic table.

And as our individual energy paradigm, able to keep all the profits and tax liabilities onshore, meaning every one dollar earned by these suggested enterprises stays onshore, doing the work of seven! As the normal economic factors kick in!

Foret for just one moment that thee things will not only produce carbon-free energy! But as another bonus when coupled to graphene-based microgrids able to service three times more customers from the same single power source! Given these cables are laid under our roads, enable the magnetic fields to be conscripted to recharge electric vehicles as they traverse them! For marginal fees!

This would forever end our enforced dependence of fully imported energy. And Some larger MSR models could be fueled with other nation's nuclear waste as we provide a cremation and burial service they pay us annual billions for!

The funding paradigm for all I've outlaid, including graphene, cored, undersea cables to transport the energy creation of the latter to, cash cow, offshore customers!

All I've proposed would stand up to the most intensive forensic financial scrutiny as profitable business models able to stand alone as completely unsubsidized private enterprise, cooperative capitalism, free-market, individual business models!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 29 September 2019 11:15:59 AM
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Anyone who can prefer the judgement of a still wet behind the ears kid is a bigger dill than that kid who thinks they know everything.
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 29 September 2019 12:00:33 PM
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Dear Hasbeen,

That kid's views are based on peer reviewed and robust science, yours are based on your personal politics.

One doesn't come within a bull's roar of the other.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Sunday, 29 September 2019 8:45:14 PM
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One might understand (Emporer) Hasbeens objection to this kid having a say regarding her future! Even one that's been mortgaged to the hilt by Hasbeen's mob!

And polluted to within an inch of an extinction event by the practices, business models and ideological imperatives of the same cabal!

And the kids who have to inherit the garbage dump of a world made so by the calloused indifference of the (I'm all right Jack) slaves to the dollar, should just button their lips as this ultra-callous cohort turn their world into a nightmare, not much more inviting than the desolate dark side of the moon!

I'm with her! How dare you and who gave you the right to effectively turn her's and other's heritage into a nightmare!!?

Perhaps you should go to the Penta coal-still church and loudly proclaim that you are a holy joe of the first water!?

And read a couple of passages from an ancient tome to further enhance that facade!? With a frozen smile fixed firmly on a seemingly benign face!?

Perhaps you should include the one that goes, forgive them, Father, i.e., the aforementioned cabal, for they know not what they do? Or if they do? Don't give a rat's?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Sunday, 29 September 2019 10:02:25 PM
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Does anyone have figures on the carbon foot print of science i.e. how polluting it can be/is ?
Posted by individual, Monday, 30 September 2019 8:43:09 AM
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SR produce some of that science is not so tainted as to stink to hell.

I recall the "hide the decline" activity was peer reviewed, which shows what a pile of stinking muck peer review is when it comes to climate activists.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 30 September 2019 10:18:38 AM
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