Flannery and co, are not the ones earning the really big bucks nor the average climate scientist! No Sir! The people making the really big buck are the fossil fuel exec's and directors, Moreover, there are some very powerful oil oligarchs who as individuals make more money from a three trillion a year industry than all the climate scientists combined?

So, if there is a pecuniary interest involved and trying to sway public opinion with BS? Who has the most to lose if exposed as fakers, liars and BS artists?

If you want to know who, do what all good investigators do, follow the money, not the Mountains of BS they're shovelling, as they try to deny what's as plain as the nose on your face! TBC.
Alan B

Alan,

I don't think anyone would disagree with you on this one, but seeing as how this fact is common knowledge, there has to be more to it than just the money.
If there is not consensus within a structure, we have dissent and sometimes, chaos.
So it is with CC or GW, there are too many questions, which may not be present to some, but are never-the-less there, to others.
Now these "others", may be wrong in their beliefs, but they are still part of the mix that will not allow the passage of a notion through to be a completely "done deal", as is the case with CC or GW.

Climate cultism = Hypocrisy, the corrupt exploiting the gullible, the gullible keep on polluting, no-one's doing anything because nothing can be done nor is anything required to be done !
The die is cast !

Truth:

"The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

It's at the sharp latter end, where truth emerges victorious.

Dan

I think the climate action rallies around the world over the last day are great stuff. Problem for me as an environmental sociologist is that if everybody gets on board and eliminates environmental problems I won't have anything to study anymore. Better throw a few more bits of coal on the fire while I ponder over this dilemma.

Every advance made by mankind has been on the back of energy. First fire gave him cooked food boiled water and metal! Followed surprisingly, after some centuries by steam. And produced by burning something, wood, coal and oil! So back in the 1800s, we began the steam age and the industrial revolution and with the harnessing of this new slave, human slaves were freed. Even more so, when the first infernal combustion engine made its appearance!

Now the world most of who (around 96% of us) believe climate change is real as is man-made global warming. And the only logical explanation by some folks not conflicted by the fossil fuel incomes, when we should be already deep in a new cooling period!

The normal climate cycle when as now, the sun is in a waning phase! If we were following situation normal w would be experiencing a cooling phase and advancing ice everywhere, not what e are having now!

Albeit, some of our more moribund minds and demented folk now believe, because the facts don't fit their narrative, that those who claim (NASA) we're in a waning phase are just part of a conspiracy to harm their fossil fuel dividends/returns!

Today their is a new energy kid on the block and almost handcrafted to deal with man-made climate change and that energy is nuclear!

Nuclear energy has per gigawatts of electricity generated the lowest associated death toll and even better as a number than renewables!TBC.
Alan B.

Cont.
Nuclear energy does not fit with some BS narrative about climate change cultism! But does deal with it on several fronts!

The first being it's carbon-free energy! The second being it's the cheapest, safest and most reliable!

After that, reliable, dispatchable and given the right technology is chosen, the safest most affordable energy available and resisted to the last man standing by the fossil fuel industry, big nuclear and big pharma alike given the economic harm MSR thorium could do to the bottom line of all these parasitical or weaponized industries!

MSR thorium can also be deployed to burn up the world's stockpile of nuclear waste and with the return of sanity, its stockpile of weapons-grade plutonium!

The former if sanely adopted, would allow a world's repository nation, i.e., Australia to earn annual billion for safely storing said waste, but not before we have reprocessed it a few dozen times extracting the remaining 98% unspent energy! And be paid annual billions for providing the burial service. (eventually)

Moreover, nuclear energy as affordable as MSR thorium (2.98 cents PKWH) would allow the conversion of inexhaustible seawater to all manner of alternative fuels, indefinitely and sustainably, using proven and well-established science and unused spare capacity! TBC.
Alan B.

Dear Alan B.,

I think we need a few Un-Chernobyls and Un-Fukushimas to convince people that nuclear is the way to go. And tell them when we have mastered nuclear technology we can then start making and stockpiling nuclear weapons so that no one better mess with us.

Cont.
After of before that, we out to replace aging and increasingly vulnerable transmission towers/millions of miles of wires and step-down transformers (most of them) with the progressive rollout of superconductor, graphene to prevent the current astronomical losses during transmission and distribution which combined add up to around 75%.

Given the deployment of the world' strongest material, graphene, for this new role, it can be laid as a thin film that also quite massively reinforces whatever infrastructure that incorporates it, roads, bridges, tunnels and highrise buildings etc. And use it (superconductor) to transmit the nation's energy wherever the is a highway or byway, even on farm tram tracks!?

The end result would be the doubling/tripling of capacity, without build any new power station or the ability to service up to four times as many customers from existing or new power generation!

Even if nothing else changes, Carbon emissions per capita would be quite massively reduced by up to a factor of four, wherever graphene highways, etc., replaced aging and increasingly vulnerable transmission towers!

Add deionisation dialysis desalination to the mix and we have affordable potable water cheap enough for proven, cost-effective, broad-scale irrigation and in arid desert regions if we want! Simply put, there are no economic or environment downside to any of the above!

And should you want to fact check an of my claims, some of them can be validated by you if you go to, Alan Goulding's Facebook page and have butchers at a couple of short interesting shared, public domain videos.
Alan B.

Mr opinion.

Obviously your not concentrating on "the world according to Al".

Thorium reactors actually consume nuclear weapons as fuel. :-)).

Dan

Dear Alan B,

I know you have a bee in your bonnet about thoruim reactors but it is getting a bit tiresome seeing the same spiel trotted out every time no matter how tenuous the link might be.

“Al Gore has made a fortune doing this.”

Rubbish.

We all know Flannery is over the top but to be running the line that Gore has profited enormously from spruiking climate change impacts is just BS.

“Contrary to the claims of right-wing critics, the profits generated from Gore’s best-selling climate books and film ― 2006’s blockbuster “An Inconvenient Truth” grossed $24 million at the box office ― were directed to the Climate Reality Project, his foundation focused on battling global warming.
Gore made most of his money off things that have nothing to do with his climate activism. In 2000, his nest egg took the form of an inherited family farm and royalties from a zinc mine, according to Bloomberg. In 2004, he founded Generation Investment Management, a sustainability-focused fund. The firm got a major boost in 2007 when it partnered with Silicon Valley-based venture capital giant Kleiner, Perkins, Caufield and Byers to “find, fund and accelerate green business, technology and policy solutions with the greatest potential to help solve the current climate crisis.”
The firm lost money on some early investments, such as the now-defunct Chicago Climate Exchange and First Solar LLC, a solar panel maker crushed by competition from cheap Chinese imports in the early 2010s. But the company bounced back, and its $1.2 billion Luxembourg-based fund now vastly outperforms the S&P 500. In March, the financial magazine Barron’s declared: “Al Gore is winning at investing.”
But Gore made the bulk of his money as a media mogul and an Apple board member. In January 2013, he pocketed about $70 million after taxes from selling the Current TV network he co-founded in 2004 to Qatari broadcaster Al Jazeera. He’s earned tens of millions more in recent years by selling off Apple stock awarded when he joined the tech giant’s board of directors in 2003.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/al-gore-wealth_n_599709f2e4b0e8cc855d5c09  

Go do some better research mate.

SR,

there you go again, shooting your mouth off, attacking another victim guilty of nothing more than promoting something HE knows what HE'S talking about, for a good cause and reason.
Where-as you, like your running mates, attack anyone who says anything YOU don't like or disagree with.
I have more faith in Al's thorium technology and outcomes than I do with most of your OPINIONS!
You malign Al for his promotion of a good thing, where-as YOU, you promote things of little relevance or of any use to mankind, merely for the sake of sounding important or knowledgeable.
All that drivel you just wrote about Al Gore, might be a bunch of facts according to records.
Now tell me how much of it is true, not factual, because they are reported as such and therefore we must believe it's true.
Gore is as much a saint as any other politician, and about as trustworthy and believable.
I much prefer and trust Alan B. than that scheming weasel.
As you've seen fit to favour Al Bore, without question and no actual research into the man and his "real" background and history, not the one you conveniently cut and paste and blindly accept without question, it seems that it is you who once more need to;
"GO DO SOME BETTER RESEARCH MATE"!
You might actually learn some truths and not just facts as is prepared and broadcast to make him appear saintly, as someone who actually cares about people and their well being.
The reason Alan B. keeps promoting his thorium concept, is because he has to.
There are just too many numb nuts, both out there and on forums, who just can't be bothered to at least acknowledge something, especially when it is for their own good.
He has a valid concept, I have written to various govt reps and received the usual BS response.
What have you done, at all, for the good of others?
At least he is trying, and it's for a good cause, US!
Even I contact politicians about considering bad bills.

Check out the Climate Hypocrites

http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/a-climate-change-photo-that-has-been-shared-more-than-34000-times-has-outraged-facebook-users/news-story/2271ff0fd36fe1be9282b31be1de3977

AC,

pathetic, is probably the kindest word to describe these "children".
Whoever is behind these rallies needs to be charged with something like child abuse.
This sick and perverse demonstration of "grooming", should be investigated by the police for such an egregious attempt at virtue shaming the population into succumbing to the demands of a very seriously mentally disturbed group of petulant "overlords", who thought up and directed this disgraceful rally.
It shows just how stupid extremists are when they use children who are so easily led and believe anything they're told, to try to convince the adults of the world to take them seriously.
Judging by what I've seen turn out of the education system in this country, they should have used that time to further their studies, and I'll bet that nearly all of the placards were created by the organisers and the kids were told what to write.
What ever happened to "children must be seen and not heard".
Or in this case, they must be neither seen nor heard.
Hypocrites, is a good starting point, but bear in mind, most of them were there because it was a day off school probably and it was a chance to get in a bit of adult approved rebellion and mischief.
If this is what the future generation is going to be based upon, good luck!
And some on here question MY reasoning.
I hope those of you who accept and even promote this type of immaturity, are still alive when these "children" are in a position of power and decision making.
I think you will get your just deserts, karma is a wonderful thing.

Hey ALTRAV,
It doesn't make sense to me.
When I was a kid you rebelled against parents and authority.
Now rebelling means virtue signalling, promoting pc agendas and patronising your parents over environmental issues...
It's like I woke up in some weird alternate universe.

AC,

your right, and your suspicions are confirmed when you consider the likes of those we dare not mention, who at the drop of a hat will come out bemoaning the obvious, even though they breach one of OLO's rules.
But that aside, if the moderators are OK with it, I am not in a position to query it.
I just can't stand the fact that every simple minded jelly brain, jumps on whatever cause or thing is being promoted on the day because it's cool to be seen as being "in step" with the latest topics.
It's annoying when a regular commentor continually repeats herself, over and over again and again.
I think it makes her feel knowledgeable.
As I have pointed out again and again, anyone can cut and paste, what is YOUR opinion?
Now you see she is doing and has been doing exactly what SR accuses Alan B of, but she is ten times worse.
Yet I have never seen the slightest mention of it, ever.
So you see there's one rule for the know-it-all left whinge brigade, and another for all the right people of the world, who just don't happen to agree with them.
As for this farce of a rally, these kids haven't a clue of what they're on about.
They've been told CC and GW are bad and something must be done and now.
So they wander around like a mindless mob chanting and ranting, all along being told what a wonderful job they're doing.
All pointless, they do not present any real and economically practical ideas as to what can be done NOW to at least justify them and be taken seriously, otherwise they are all just another joke.
Anyone can pick fault, but it seems no-one can create a real, viable, efficient, economical solution to this alleged problem we are going to face, allegedly.
I for one can see Alan B's Thorium plan as an immediate, and affordable answer to the energy problem and CC and GW.
But don't tell anyone, because it seems too cheap to set and run.

AC,

your right, and your suspicions are confirmed when you consider the likes of those we dare not mention, who at the drop of a hat will come out bemoaning the obvious, even though they breach one of OLO's rules themselves.
But that aside, if the moderators are OK with it, I am not in a position to query it.
I just can't stand the fact that every simple minded jelly brain, jumps on whatever cause or thing is being promoted on the day because it's cool to be seen as being "in step" with the latest topics.
It's annoying when a regular commentor continually repeats herself, over and over again and again.
I think it makes her feel knowledgeable.
As I have pointed out again and again, anyone can cut and paste, what is THEIR opinion?
Now you see she is doing and has been doing exactly what SR accuses Alan B of, but she is ten times worse.
Yet I have never seen the slightest mention of it, ever.
So you see there's one rule for the know-it-all left whinge brigade, and another for all the right people of the world, who just don't happen to agree with them.
As for this farce of a rally, these kids haven't a clue what they're on about.
They've been told CC and GW are bad and something must be done and now.
So they wander around, mindlessly chanting and ranting, all along being told what a wonderful job they're doing.
All pointless, they do not present any real and economically viable ideas as to what can be done NOW to at least justify them and be taken seriously, otherwise they are all just another joke.
Anyone can pick fault, but it seems no-one can create a real, viable, efficient, economical solution to this alleged problem we are going to face, allegedly.
I for one can see Alan B's Thorium plan as an immediate, and affordable answer to the energy problem and CC and GW.
But don't tell anyone, because it seems too cheap to set up and run.

If any of these marchers were asked what they'd like Govts to do to curb Climate Change, would they be able to answer the question ?

Mr Opinion.
Your knowledge of nuclear reactors is minus zero if you think there's any comparison between the reactors at Chernobyl or Fukushima. Chernobyl was caused by xenon expansion inside a seven-inch thick reactor vessel designed to never ever expand and when this expansion exceeded 150 atmospheres of pressure, something let go. Probably one of the heat transfer pipes? Allowing the reactor water only kept liquid by the extreme press to flash instantly to Hydrogen and oxygen in a highly explosive mixture and at temperatures that meant immediate combustion was inevitable!

And the reaction continued minus the cooling liquid and so the following meltdown was inevitable!

Fukushima, on the other hand, was caused by loss of power to the pumps that circulate the cooling liquid water and given 150 atmospheres of pressure, absolutely essential to allow cooler water to replace the super superheated liquid in the reactor vessel or heat transfer pipes. The back generators that should have kicked in to provide emergency power were compromised by their inability to operate submerged in a tidal tsunami.

Had the backup generators been placed 100 metres higher, they would have been able to sill operate or if they had been equipped with a liquid oxygen alternative, would have still been able to operate even completely submerged!

The fact that you think that there's anything remotely similar to highly pressurise enriched uranium reactors and unpressurised MSR displays you fearmongering and based on total and abysmal ignorance.

To reiterate MSR is also able to burn up for thousands and thousands of years, the world's current stockpile of weapons-grade plutonium!

However in your blissful ignorance and attack dog, cyberbully mode! You'd sooner leave it in the weapons, genius!?
Alan B.

Hey Al

How about we set you up on a folding chair behind a card table, on the steps of Parliament House in Canberra.
I'd doubt they'd listen, but hope reigns eternal.

Dan

Al

Actually on reflection, that idea could work. There is a very successful precedent as example.
The aboriginal tent embassy operated in the park across the road from Parliament House, with the outcome of the gift of sixty percent of the landmass of the continent as reward for their effort.

Dan

Thanks for that Dan.
However, it wouldn't be successful given I'm reliably informed that OLO is read in the halls of power in Canberra, the US congress/Senate and number ten Downing street among others?

And given that is the case my (boring repetitious words won't have any more impact on minds already too infantile to actually comprehend them, let alone allow them to influence the energy decision making process or policy) words won't have any more impact on folk who are quite deliberately deaf and blind to them?

Indeed, can not get on the people's Q+A panel because the password that was good and allowed me to comment there, is now apparently no longer valid! And probably means, somebody or something doesn't want to allow my oft-repeated views to have any more air or oxygen than now? If not for OLO, I'd be left with screaming at the TV, like some demented old fool.

I know one thing though, this state of affairs cannot last and those kids now barking their displeasure are going to be tomorrow's voters and will enrol with very long memories about who did what and who tried by all and any means to suppress the only viable solution on the table!

How anyone can conflate quite massively increased LG exports with reduced carbon emission is completely beyond me! Even as we burn and clear a dozen or s football fields a day of rainforest, even as our own dries out and like the now dried up swamps, stops being the firebreaks that prevented naive burn-offs from total desertification of the Australian continent!TBC
Alan B.

“Al Gore has made a fortune doing this.”

Oh, I thought Gore made all his money from creating the internet.

Then created a TV station and sold it to oil barons because, as we all know, hypocrisy only applies to those evil deniers.

And then used the ill-gotten gains to buy a water-front property which will, of course, be underwater next Tuesday-week or something.

Cont.
On the topic of energy exports. All that we earn from this quarter currently, could be replicated or surpassed by exported electricity transmitted to customer countries, via shipping free, carbon-free undersea cables with superconductor, graphene cores. And for as long as it's possible to foresee!

This electricity could be made in MSR burning other folk's nuclear waste and for which we could earn annual billions from for providing a creation type burial service, but only after we'd extracted the remaining unspent 98%+ remaining unspent energy from this energy-dense material.

And in the process reducing the half-life to just 300 years!

Mr Opion and SR , who just bag me and my solutions, would probably want the situation remain as is and the mountain of toxic waste to grow larger and larger as they moan and bitch to high heaven about nuclear energy and any fool, foolish enough to prefer it over intermittent renewables!?

Yes, of course, these cables would cost billions as would the electricity-producing, molten salt reactors! (MSR)

But all able to be financed with the annual billions we'd earn for the nuclear waste cremation/burial service, then the additional billions this shipping free carbon-free exports could earn continuously as more and more customers are sort and found.

Moreover this energy, the cheapest possible!

Would all but force a complete resuscitation of manufacturing in this country and a monolithic exodus to this nation by energy-dependent high tech manufacture.

And assisted by government facilitated cooperative capitalism and the quite massive competition it would add to this hugely monopolised (Coles, Woolworths) cartel economy!

My solutions may not be the best or most practical or affordable, but 100% better than our current, no energy policy, or just business as usual status quo!
Alan B.

And also Al, look what they did to microwaves, not only can you cook your pet rabbit with it, you can also talk to Grandma 500 miles away. How versatile is that?

Yes I'm one, yes I'm two, yes I'm three, yes I'm four, yes I'm five hundred miles away from home.

Maybe there is some way to Astro travel using microwaves. Give it some thought Al before petrol becomes totally unaffordable, and we're all walking!

(And here is the rest sung to the tune of five hundred miles in Am).

If you miss the train I'm on, I'll be cooking like a bun, under the spreading old gum tree, in my microwaveE.

Look there's Nana on my knee, and all my kids surrounding me, all jumped out of my microwaveE on highway three....etc.

Dan

Those 300,000 school children who hit the streets last week to protest on the failure of LNP politicians to address global warming and its consequential climate change problems are 300,000 less votes going to the LNP when these children qualify for the vote in about 6-8 years time. Only an idiot would seriously think that these children are going to change their views in the not too distant future. As an environmental sociologist this is the sort of stuff that makes having spent the time and effort doing all those degrees of mine really worth while.

I never did get any answers to my questions over the years what people expect Govts to do when the people themselves are the perpetrators ?
And, to give them a really good example of THE major cause of GW, we could ask them to support all those people who won't stop breeding even after three or more kids.

Dan.
Line of sight microwaves can and do transfer electrical current. However, if you want to travel somewhere? Then for mine, the best option is an electric vehicle and one fitted with a magnetic induction plate.

This is how our mobile phones are charged now via a magnetic field.

All electricity transmission also includes a magnetic field. Even via graphene!

The magnetic induction plate converts that phenomenon into an electrical charge for the battery even while the vehicle is in motion. Regenerative braking assists.

Under road graphene, as a proven concept, ends forever the lack of range in electric vehicles, while current transmission losses are quite massively reduced by the fact that graphene, apart from being the world's strongest material, is also a superconductor! And presents little resistance to electrical current, so also, cold thorium.

Thorium as the metal can be stretched to a thin wire. Is also slightly magnetic. Used to be used in gas mantles for the old lamp lights.

I believe we should be doing all of the above and allowing other folks to pay the bills with the money we would earn as a repository for all the world' nuclear waste.

In other words, this money could pay for all the R+D, the reactors and the graphene highways and cables then for a few dozen very large capacity deionisation dialysis desalination plants!

All that's envisaged would earn a handsome income as well if cooperative capitalism is also incorporated and the management model! Absolutely, very doable!

We should be putting all our people and resources to work for us and using our 2.5 trillion dollars super fund!

Only deadweight, recalcitrant politicians with their own agendas and political masters prevent any and all the above, I believe.
Alan B.

Al b

I read a where Jacque Lambie is constantly shocked by the childish nature of the political class, which she is not.

Those observations reflect the cushie ride through life of the elite class.
What she means of course is a politicians hard times would never include the event of hunger and lack of money to buy food.

All too common an event starkly familiar to the " excluded out " poor, whose lives are made so much more difficult by the blindness and sheer lack of empathy rampant by political decision makers.

Those in our community who go without food ever shocks me. I come across them periodically. It's mostly not a poverty forced by drugs and alcohol either, as is the stereotype.

Politicians are totally out of touch with a vast array of the population.

Dan

Dear Alan B,

You said;

“Mr Opion and SR , who just bag me and my solutions”

No I was, politely I felt, letting you know that being faced with a thousand words on exactly the same subject was tiresome.

If I was going to bag you or your solutions I would have make a decent fist of it.

My understanding is that there are still issues to be solved before thorium reactors are viable. These have not disappear since one of your posts prompted me to look at them. That was a fair while ago.

Here is a suggestion, if you are so wedded to regurgitating the same spiel at every opportunity you might want to think about at least flagging when you have something new to say, perhaps with the words NEW at the start. Then I will know to think about giving it some attention.

Not particularly fussed either way.

When people don't have the mentality to understand, those who think have no alternative but to repeat in the hope some may one day comprehend !

You lose any credibility by describing widespread concern about global warming as a "cult". You out yourself as a conspiracy theorist too. Happily, around the world, governments, scientific organizations, and major corporations are meeting to plan a rational response to global warming. You are just pissing into the wind. The one benefit of your activity is that it keeps denialists busy with futile activity.

Hey Matt CYP,

Welcome to the forum.

You lose any credibility by describing widespread concern about global warming as a "cult".

No, I think he gains credibility because that's exactly what it is.
- Though I prefer to think of it as a religion -

Not everyone supports the idea of Climate Change;
- Not all scientists and not all regular people.
Not everyone carries on irrationally about it like they wish to advertise a mental illness.
Cult is part of Cult-ure;

This is about a small group of people imposing their will on a larger group.

Human beings have been screwing up this planet up though;
Pumping feces into ocean grasses and a total decline in fish stocks, and a decline in birds as well.

Climate Change people are angry at the 'air'.
Lets jump up and down and scream at the air.

You people remind me of Caligula who ordered his soldiers to stab the sea because he was at war with Neptune.

You'd be better off advocating something tangible like
"Lets stop pumping poo where fish breed"
or
"Let's all plant a tree".

Climate Change itself is more of a conspiracy theory than the other side, because climate change is being used as a tool to impose other changes upon society, in a problem, reaction solution manner.

I'll happily help you plant a tree, or help advocate for finding new places to dump effluent, or even help refine ideas to get rid of the plastic in the ocean, but as for the larger climate change agenda which originally came out of the Club of Rome in the 70's;

- No, I'm not buying into a religion designed to destroy national sovereignty and impose globalism sorry.

Dear Armchair Critic,

Did you see the children taking to the streets around the world last week protesting against the lack of initiative being taken by those in charge? Did you see the news today with several different stories about how global warming is running away from us and that the consequences that climatologists have been warning us about are happening sooner than predicted? This is all happening because of people like you. You and other denialists are like the lung cancer patient who refuses to accept that cigarettes are a health hazard.

Alan, we can't even keep an undersea line from Tasmania running for long, do you really expect one thousands of times longer would work for more than 40% of the time?

I know you believe everything you read in the papers, & think children are the font of all wisdom, but some of us are a bit more intelligent than that. Thank god for Trump.

Matt CYP and Mr O,

you have to admit that AC has a point.
I have always said that if I am to believe this CC, GW thing, I am not satisfied with the explanations so far.
It seems that the promoters of this "thing" find something, then attach GW or CC to it as the cause.
This has been the M.O. from the start.
Now I'm not saying that something is not going on with the climate, but what I am saying is that I don't believe we humans are the ones "totally" responsible for it.
The science is like facts, it does not tell the truth or complete picture.
Science is theory, which is tested and proven in a controlled and segregated environment from the "situation" being studied or tested.
I accept there is "some" foundation or truth in this whole debacle but not that it is all our fault.
Because the planet is so big, I find it impossible to have any "real" influence over it.
One example, Florida or similar, it is reported that the ocean is rising and is beginning to flood.
So it is the fault of GW and CC they will have us believe.
The truth is, that area has been slowly sinking, because of the soil composition.
Now to further kill this water rising theory, why is it not rising anywhere else immediately adjacent to these areas?
No I must not accept the extent of the blame for all this, when there appears to be dissent among those who should know better, or the truth.
No one has researched, if we are part of the problem, what are the other factors at play, such as the sun.
We are told the sun greatly affects what happens on Earth, so I would like to know to what extent it does, and how, before I accept any liability or blame.

Hey Mr Opinion,

"This is all happening because of people like you."

Do you know what happens if you accuse your girlfriend of being a slut?

- She'll go out and do it.

I told you I'm willing to help if the issue is tangible;

But if you want to blame me, like I'm singlehandedly responsible for the entire worlds problems then I'll go out buy 5 lires of diesel, pour it over a pile of old tyres and light it up.

Please don't impose your mental illness globalist religion onto me.

Hey Mr Opinion,
"Did you see the children taking to the streets around the world last week protesting against the lack of initiative being taken by those in charge?"

Oh what so I'm supposed to go all goey and pee myself at the exceptional wisdom of these brainwashed kids.

Let me tell you something I (got to leave the swear words out) hate this whole concept of using kids to manipulate adults.

Western society is a big psy-op with the profile of a Christian.
You undermine their society by getting the useless idiots to shoot themselves in the foot buying into ignorant feelgood moral crap; knowing theyre too stupid to look at the big picture.

I can't believe you used the kids as a basis for your argument.
Society really has gone complete off its chops.

Dear Armchair Critic,

Goodness gracious, now you are in denial about being in denial

I find it amazing that many of the warmist are happy and even celebrate murdering unborn children, demand sex from whoever or whatever takes their fancy, celebrate perversion and then want to preach their idiotic gw relgion to others with some sort of moral superiority. Just shows how quickly a society becomes sick and dumbed down when thinking they can deny their Creator.

Sorry Alan, this bit,"I know you believe everything you read in the papers, & think children are the font of all wisdom, but some of us are a bit more intelligent than that. Thank god for Trump" was for Mr O.

Dear Hasbeen,

Why do you keep making out that you are intelligent? Especially after telling all of us that you are a Plastic Engineer.

Altrav if you are looking for an explanation read the next post from me.

GLOBAL WARMING ? BUT IS IT CO2 ?
There has been a week of panic by schoolgirls literaly hysterical about CO2 induced global warming. The claim is made that the science is irrafutable. Many well known scientists in the weather field are not so convinced and are banned from access to once respected web sites.

While all this has been going on, the ground under them has shifted. A not so unknown theory has been given a boost by scientists at a Finish University and at a Japanese university the presentation of papers on the effect of the sun, sunspots, cosmic rays and clouds. Their work does not deny that the earth has warmed, but they deny the part attributed to CO2.

The sun has a cycle of variation of radiation levels. The sunspot activity follows an eleven year cycle and the intensity of the plasma expelled towards the earth varies over a longer cycle of maximum and minimum. These particles & plasma intensify the earths magnetic fields so that over the years the strength of these fields follows a long cycle of about 600 years.

The earth is constantly bombarded by cosmic rays from space. The cosmic rays react with water vapour to form low clouds. However if the earths magnetic field is strong enough the cosmic rays are diverted away from forming clouds. When low clouds form the earth is shaded and heat is reflected from the top of the clouds back into space.

It is the variation in the magnetic field over the complex cycle that causes the variation in cosmic rays and as a result the cloud cover that causes the earth to warm and cool. The result of these variations is a natural cycle of the earth warming and cooling over a cycle of 600 years.

Why is CO2 not a major factor in the warming ? The IPCC models did not take into account the effect of cloud cover or lack of cloud cover. At times of low cloud cover the resulting warming was assumed to be caused the greenhouse effect..

Continued

Continued;
A 1986 analysis of Alpine glaciers concluded that the period AD 100-400 period was significantly warmer than the periods that immediately preceded and followed. Artifacts recovered from the retreating Schnidejoch glacier have been taken as evidence for the Bronze Age, Roman and Medieval Warm Periods.

During these periods the cloud cover would be comparatively light and the earth was warmer.
In the medieval period around 900 1000 ad the earth was warm and the Vikings settled in Greenland and lived there successfully for some hundreds of years. Then as the earth cooled the living became harder until finally the people left Greenland.

In the 18th century which was a cool time the Thames froze every year and the winter festival was held on the ice. Today 300 years later wine grapes are again being grown in the UK and
the Thames never freezes.

The scientists who developed this hypothesis believe that the highest temperature is now around 1990. Perhaps it is +- 50 years. If this hypothesis is correct the next minimum will arrive in in about 300 years time.

Want to know more ? Here are some links to the authors articles and information on
Mark Svenmark who was the originator of the whole idea in 2012.
http://tinyurl.com/y5lee6uv http://tinyurl.com/y4w8nzzu
htpp://tinyurl.com/y5huzsz5

The above is an interesting new "idea" proposed by teams in two
separate universities. Their papers have been peer reviewed but it is
all very recent in early July. Already it has been attacked by the
usual suspects and accused of being in the pay of the coal industry.
That gets a bit boring but it indicates that those objectors have
read about it and are concerned.

Hey Bazz,

I found the article

Cook, J., et al. 'Quantifying the consensus on anthropogenic global warming in the scientific literature', Environmental Research Letters 8 (2), 2013.

Bazz,

"those objectors" you mention, have shown their hand by not countering with a credible explanation to challenge this new research.
I am pleased to read this because it once more vindicates me in not accepting something at face value, or because we have some loud, rude, lewd, claytons experts pushing a very convenient PC agenda, all to make themselves look good because they want to appear backing the "cool" but ignorant losers with nothing to show for their irrelevant lives and lifestyles.
This type of activism gives them as much cred as tyring to push a bar of "fools gold" as the real thing.
A good example.

Dear Hasbeen,

You have once again furnished a laugh, this time with;

“think children are the font of all wisdom, but some of us are a bit more intelligent than that. Thank god for Trump”

Trump is the very epitome of a child and as for you considering yourself a bit more intelligent that those kids who are standing up for action on climate change I've got news for you old cock, not in a month of bloody Sundays is a climate denier like yourself within a bull's roar of any of them.

Dear Bazz,

You write;

"scientists at a Finish University and at a Japanese university the presentation of papers on the effect of the sun"

Good lord are you really trotting this out again? Come on mate, this has been utterly debunked and really shouldn't be seeing the light ever again.

Surely you must have something new for us after all these years.

Hey Bazz,
Back before I started being facetious on this topic;

I said number 1 cause is solar output, number 2 is earths orbit and number 3 (distant 3) is humans.

Is what your talking about the Maunder Minimum stuff?

"The Maunder Minimum, also known as the "prolonged sunspot minimum", is the name used for the period around 1645 to 1715 during which sunspots became exceedingly rare, as was then noted by solar observers. The term was introduced after John A. Eddy published a landmark 1976 paper in Science."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum

This is the stuff I remember hearing about when to listened to radio shows that I don't listen to much anymore.

I argued that if humans have the peri reis maps then surely human have lived through climate change;
And that we human need to be the masters of our own environments no matter what happens not the other way around.

SR, you know, I have witnessed your ignorant, arrogant rhetoric for some time, and your behaviour is by far way worse than what you accuse me of.
Your attitude is so overwhelmingly "holy than thou" that even a priest would complain, which is what I am considering, if you continue with your attitude.
WTF makes you think your better than those you demean?
The simple fact is that it is you who is lacking, in many things, including in relativity.
You have no gauge as to the level of relativity a comment or topic has.
You blindly comment, without due care or concern for the truth, only the facts, and then you contrive a truth from the facts, even though there is no correlation.
Ah well I guess every forum has one, and your lucky enough to be it.
What IT is exactly, I'm not allowed to say, but the other commentors have suggestions, I'm sure.

Dear Armchair Critic,

I ask this question often but rarely get a decent answer, what physical property of CO2 do you want me to ignore that would allow me to dismiss that increasing the concentration of this important greenhouse gas will have no impact of global temperatures?

I may have found a vocation for SR & the odious MrO.

Once upon a time we had a few kooks. They usually appeared in sandwich boards proclaiming the end of the world, by some dreamed up catastrophe. This would be the ideal occupation for these kooks, & it would cost little.

Even better it would be very easy to change the wording from Global warming to global cooling, when those so called "climate scientists" change the consensus to that, as they did 40 years ago.

We could even make a smaller one for that little kook Greta to use to join them.

Dear Hasbeen,

I feel sorry for you. I think you are angry that you are just a plastic engineer and never learned anything outside of that. Unfortunately we can't all be doing interesting things like anthropology, history, sociology, archaeology, etc. Some of us have to be content with being plastic engineers. I'm just glad it was you and not me.

now that many of the 'educated' priests of the gw faith has been exposed we now see the power/money hungry UN using autistic girls to manipulate the gullible and weak. Any relation Mr Opinion?

Dear runner,

Watch the news and you'll see that the world is seeing you, Hasbeen and other denialists as a complete laughing stock with your strange ideas about science and your lowbrow English to explain them.

Tell me Mr Opinion that seen the world only has 11 years left that you wasted 4 or 5 years being brainwashed at uni? Just asking!

Mr O,

either you missed the underlying fact or you choose not to see it.
Using some smart-arse with an over active imagination and a flare for the dramatic, which I believe she would do well as a chosen carrier, in acting,has done more irreparable damage to the cause than they can begin to imagine.
I can't believe they did this.
This is another clear indication that they are losing their followers, if they have to resort to these crazy depths to garner support.
Children?
Really?
No, as an observer, I am seeing more and more faux-pas' from the GW, CC camp.
They are feeling the pressure, and believe they should be doing more to get their message across.
I have the answer; instead of trying to convince people with more BS and annoying stories of woe, how about get all the scientists who are not on board the GW, CC band wagon, and then there will be no question or doubt.
Right now that's all we have to work with.
Dis-unity amongst those who should know, and therefore questions amongst those who don't know.
C'mon, this is not that difficult to follow, as it is the standard pattern of societal acceptance or rejection of any proposal.
It's a lot easier to convince a few thousand scientists, than a few billion people!
Or is there some underlying reason that we are not privy to?
Hmmmmm?

Hey SteeleRedux

"I ask this question often but rarely get a decent answer, what physical property of CO2 do you want me to ignore that would allow me to dismiss that increasing the concentration of this important greenhouse gas will have no impact of global temperatures?"

CO2 doesn't have any physical properties, it's a colourless odourless gas unless in a solid state, commonly known as dry ice.
- Just messing with you -

Sorry but I'm honestly not in any way smart enough on the technical aspects of this topic to offer any sort of worthwhile opinion.

I'm willing to meet the other side half-way.
I'm not opposed to finding better ways to do things that are better for the environment, but this whole 'agenda', I just won't buy into it because I see it as a cornerstone of globalism

After the global elite put themselves in positions of authority, they want us to fund the whole thing for them ourselves, and make us think it was all our own idea, when it was theirs.

Hey ALTRAV,
To us it looks like desperation, but it probably is working;
There's no way for it to not work, because they'll never concede, nor give up.

Until we've all signed.
Or our leaders under representative democracy sign for us.
- And even then they'll keep shifting the goalposts.

'We'll now that we've got your pants down let's move things up a notch'

It doesn't matter anyway;
If you keep telling a lie long enough eventually people will believe it.

Stupid muppets don't realise what they're is signing theirs and their kids futures over to one world government.

AC,

as someone who knows nothing about anything to do with GW or CC, only what I see and feel around me as I travel the world, and I'm sorry but, other than these localised weather events every now and then and in such a way as to be both mobile in geography and in performance, I can't see a "pattern".
For me to begin to grasp the actuality and therefore the severity or relativity of these alleged, world wide changes in weather activity, I would want to see some indication of consistency.
In other words, a real and severe change in conditions both climatically and physically.
It's no use showing me pics of the ice breaking off and falling into the sea.
This has been going on for millennia.
So unless someone can confirm that the Earth does not, and has been going through cycles all it's life, then I can begin to consider the GW CC thing, not before!

Armchair, sorry I did not reply earlier as I was off this thread for
the 21 hours limit.
Yes, the Maunder minimum was the very low count of sunspots in the 18th century.
As I have interpreted the theory there are multiple cycles all going
on at the same time.
There is a cycle of variation in the suns radiation.
There is the 11 year cycle of the sunspots.
There are the change of the orbits of the earth, both distance from
sun and the rotation of the earths ellipse around the sun.
The change in sunspot intensity from maximum to minimum is modified by
the suns variation in radiation. In other words the sunspot cycle
is modulated by the sun cycle, and then modulated by the orbit changes.
The sunspot activity generates a magnetic field around the earth and
modifies the existing field.
The upshot is the magnetic field around the earth varies with sunspot
variation all modulated by all those cycles.

Then the cosmic rays are diverted away when the magnetic field is
strong but when it is weak they react with water vapour and form more
clouds than when the field is weak.
The clouds reflect back into space heat from the sun and shade the earth.
This variation in reflection and shading causes cycles of warming and
cooling of the earth over a period about 600 years.
Hence the 18th century was cold and the 10th and 11th centuries were warm.
This my understanding of what those teams have hypothesised.
I suspect this period from the Maunder Minimum to now has been seen
as Global Warming caused by co2. The Hypothesis suggests that co2
has only a very small affect on earth temperature. 0.01 deg C I think.
This theory explains the Roman warming, the Medieval warming and the Maunder Minimum.

Bazz,

Thank you, finally some information in basic language so dumb-asses like me can better understand WTF is going on.
These are the kinds of things that are used to come up with a final determination on something.
Not most experts say one thing and the rest say the opposite.
Like, yeah, that's going to convince me to agree with the findings.
Who's findings do I believe, if the experts can't agree?

Hey Bazz,

I found the article

Cook, J., et al. 'Quantifying the consensus on anthropogenic global warming in the scientific literature', Environmental Research Letters 8 (2), 2013.

Hey Bazz,
So whats the bigger picture here?

The planet does go through cycles of warming and cooling.
Scientists note this warming, start pulling their hair out;
Some only see whats in front of them, while others see 'the bigger picture';

The ones that have tunnel vision and only see whats in front of them, they're the ones getting the grants and the narrative, because these useful idiots are playing into a larger 'One World Government' agenda.

The same agenda that seeks to promotes gays, feminism, identity politics, nationalists as racists; etc.

AC I made a mistake in this sentance;
Then the cosmic rays are diverted away when the magnetic field is
strong but when it is weak they react with water vapour and form more
clouds than when the field is weak.

The last word should have been "strong"

The authors say that the IPCC models do not take into account the
effect of clouds. Because of that they let their effect on earth's
temperature be allocated to CO2.
I suspect that was not done deliberately but simply because it was there.
So people who use that site will not hear about this particular
theory. I guess that is the idea.

It is early days yet as it was only published 2 1/2 months ago.
It is extraordinary that a site like Conversation will block anyone
whose scientific opinion they do not like.

No matter how the GW, CC mob try to sell it now, they are "persona non grata".
They have gone too far.
They have been "on the edge", since they began this unconscionable little foray into the world of extreme forecasts of doom and gloom.
The elite can go and get stuffed now, the "science"is slowly banking up on them and their "One World" agenda.
I was infuriated and still am quite angry at the sight of that arrogant, jumped up, smart arse of a "child", for her pathetic attempt at a vociferous and egregious attempt to sell her flawed agenda.
All she has proven is that she is a prostitute, an actor, and a giant con!
She has done herself and her cause no good.
What a major bitch.
How dare a nobody, know nothing, like her call out "anyone", for something she doesn't even know the first thing about.
That was pathetic and her "handlers" should be charged with "child grooming", and the lot of them jailed for attempting to garner support and sympathy, which of course leads to other personal benefits or gains.
And to top it all off, she is a hypocrite to boot.
I hope there is such a thing as karma, and she and her lot suffer the wrath of hell for attempting such a grievous and personal attack on mankind for her own purely personal and selfish reasons and gains.
DISGUSTING!

" what physical property of CO2 do you want me to ignore that would allow me to dismiss that increasing the concentration of this important greenhouse gas will have no impact of global temperatures?"

Don't ignore those properties. Just learn more about them.

Learn how their warming effect is logarithmic.

Learn how they only absorb heat at certain wave-lengths.

Learn how water vapour also absorbs at those wave-lengths and much more effectively.

Learn how, at the concentrations of CO2 now and in the future, the effects, sans feedbacks, are unconcerning.

Learn how the minor warming caused by CO2 at current concentrations could well be (and probably have in the past) offset by negative feedbacks.

So don't ignore the little you do know. Just learn a whole lot more to see the nuance of the issue.

Hey Bazz,

I found the article:

Cook, J., et al. 'Quantifying the consensus on anthropogenic global warming in the scientific literature', Environmental Research Letters 8 (2), 2013.

So, we have GW & CC, what do the proponents propose to be done for resolving this ? Surely,
after several years of rambling on about something they contributed to, one would think they could mention the solutions in a heartbeat ?
My solution is birth control & living within our means. What's theirs ?

Hey individual,

Yes they have a solution.

- Global Taxes -

http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/12/03/un-climate-chief-has-solution-to-urgent-climate-threat-we-require-deep-transformations-of-our-economies-and-societies/

Hi Bazz/AC,

Re the cosmic ray theory - what I'd call the Svensmark theory. (http://principia-scientific.org/strong-evidence-that-svensmark-s-solar-cosmic-ray-theory-of-climate-is-correct/)

I just like to make one or two corrections to your otherwise very good explanation of the theory.

"The sunspot activity generates a magnetic field around the earth and modifies the existing field. The upshot is the magnetic field around the earth varies with sunspot variation all modulated by all those cycles."

That's not quite right. The earth's magnetic field is generated by the earth itself via the theorised earth iron core. It varies in strength but that has nothing to do with solar activity. Actually no one seems to know why it alters in strength.

What the theory is, is that as the sun's activities alter from strong to weak, so the solar winds (a plasma mostly consisting of electrons, protons and alpha particles with kinetic energy) alter from strong to weak both in volume and speed.

These solar winds which are ejected from the sun itself then interact with the incoming galactic rays allowing more through when the winds are weak , less when strong. When the rays reach the earth they cause cloud formation - more rays means more cloud, less rays less cloud. These are specific high level clouds which, as you say, reflect light back out to space before it is absorbed by CO2 or any other particles.

So the theory runs that climate change alters as the strength of the winds alter, as you ably explained.

Some scientists have also looked at this and wondered if there is some sort of variance in the levels of cosmic rays coming in. So if there are more rays, then more will get through irrespective of the strength of the winds.

There is now a theory that, as the solar system moves around the Milky Way, the volume of rays hitting the solar system alters. Some initial research suggests (but doesn't prove) that this corresponds with the beginning and ends of ice ages. There's now quite a bit of research going on on that theory.

Mhaze
I think we are saying the same thing. Just like the Aura Borealus
and the Aura Australis produce the lights because the magnetic field
is disturbed. I guess "we" are arguing whether the actual solar wind
diverts the cosmic rays or whether it is the disturbed and strengthened
magnetic field that does the job.
Saw a film recently about the sun's cycle, there are currents of plasma ?
coming up from lower in the sun to just below the surface, curling
over, rotating and dissipating.
When they are strong they burst through the surface as sunspots.

Somehow, I think that with all the untrue stories we hear about rising
sea levels, increased bushfires etc etc I think the Svenmark theory
may well be the answer to global warming as well as the Maunder Minimum.
Indeed is it the same thing sans co2.
Isn't it nice to have a discussion without nasty comment. Oh dear.

Hi Bazz,

Yes it is nice to have a discussion without rankle.

I've been following the Svensmark theory since the early 2000's. Earlier I'd read a book by Tasmanian John Daly from 1993 which discussed the fact the solar activity correlated with temperatures in the climate record. But in those days there was no real mechanism that they could point to as to why the correlation existed.

Svensmark provides such a correlation.

In the end, right or wrong, Svensmark and all those who support him or even just want to fully explore the theory, are a direct refutation of the 'science is settled' rubbish. While the science remains unsettled, it is insane to be looking to overturn our economy based on an unproven theory.

Not that any of this data will stop those who a pushing for such change to economic systems. In the end they want the change and CO2 is just the excuse.