BEWARE:

The atheist and his damned rainbow flag.

Dan

What an idiot! He has further further queered the pitch for George Pell, who should not be in jail. What hope is there now that people already Catnolic haters will change their minds!

Everybody has a moral duty to report child abuse. The injustice against Pell does not change that

Church attendance has fallen firstly because it is no longer socially expected.

Formerly, even people who were not at all religious went to church to socialise, to meet friends, to hear news and gossip, to show themselves, their wealth and their status. Their absence is not a loss - if you go to God's house, you should do so to meet God!

Also television and the internet damaged church attendance just as they damaged so many other institutions, including the family. Many just find it too difficult to digitally disconnect even for an hour or two.

I commend Peter Comensoli for his statement: God should always come before society and humanism. Sadly when the author writes: "Not so Commensoli. He would rather leave the perpetrator of sexual abuse go free than report him to the authorities", he fails to recognise the ultimate and highest authority, God!

If priests are "required" to report anything they heard in confession, then all confessions will simply cease, and that is a great pity because confession is an amazing spiritual and therapeutic technique. Forget about the trappings of absolution and penance, just the ability to communicate one's guilt unreservedly to some other living soul is invaluable for sanity and spiritual growth, and this would not happen without the assurance of absolute confidentiality and non-judgement.

God's healing grace can transform everyone, even a paedophile: pray, repent and confess!

Yup, it does seem only those unable to shrug off their early brainwashing are still attending Church services and trusting birds of a feather with the indoctrination of their children.

I say this given the number of high profile tip of a massive tip of the iceberg, who've been defrocked or exposed recently.

Moreover, one notes that no action is taken in most of these cases until the offender has exhausted all legal options, regardless of cost! All while compensation is little more than tokenism or shut up money!

It seems all the empathy and FINACIAL support is being directed at the perpetrating offenders and held back for the offending paedophile priests', bishops' and cardinals' victims?

And then wonder why this fable and fantasy-based paganism has fewer followers and their critical FINACIAL support!

The MAN-MADE confessional seal is only around 700 years old and does not belong to early esoteric Christian, pre-Constantine, belief! Nor Sun worshipping pagan, Constitane's approved practice or official allowed belief!

And given that is so, cannot be defended as a central plank upon which (paganised) Christian belief stands!

Anyone who knowingly protects and shelters known and perhaps still offending paedophiles are as bad (or worse) as (than) them and an also-ran, criminal. after the fact, offender! No question!

Think, given no exposure or outing, some of these high profile offenders could nominate a Pope or even go on to fill that position!

Former Catholic/Altar boy.
Alan B.

1/. If a priest does not report illegal activity. "I robbed" "I murdered" Then he has no right in telling others how to beg=have morally.
2/. Of course church attendances are down as more and more people are using their brain and realizing what a giant con religion is.

Does anyone know if it is down on absolute numbers or relative figures?

Just as a matter of interest, how would authorities prove what a penitent said to a priest in Confession?

Take the priest's word for it?

First of all as far as I know the Melbourne based dude that wears all the colorful clothes and funny hats is a member of the deeply misogynist outfit opus dei, the details of which can be found here: http://www.odan.org
He is also a protege of George Pell. And the kind of "catholic" described in the book by Matthew Fox titled The Pope's War Against the Church (the popes were JP2 and Ratzinger). The book was favorably reviewed on this site some years ago.

I am all for wearing colorful outfits and fancy hats, but in his case and so too with all of the bishops, cardinals and popes these outfits are all, at base, affirmations of institutional spirit-killing worldly power.

You wont find much (indeed any) Divine Grace within the walls of this monstrous institution!

Peter,

I'm not a RC but you are a brave man to point to one of the core issues of RC:

<<But this writer believes that the cause behind the decline is deeper than the issue of clerical abuse. It is the increasing divergence between the practices of the church and the teachings of Jesus Christ.>>

It's not only with the RCs but also with other mainline Christian churches such as the non-evangelical Anglicans and Uniting Churches in Australia. There are other examples in Europe, the USA and Canada (e.g. United Church of Canada). Wherever theological liberalism has spread it has sucked the life out of churches.

<<Not so Commensoli. He would rather leave the perpetrator of sexual abuse go free than report him to the authorities>>

I think this is a harsh indictment, especially when the confessional of the RCC maintains confidentiality of confession. I consider the biblical position is that of the Apostle Peter and the other apostles when they appeared before the Jewish Council. They were charged not to teach in the name of Jesus. Peter and the apostles' response was, 'We must obey God rather than human beings' (Acts 5:29).

If I were in Melbourne’s Catholic Archbishop, Peter Comensoli's shoes, I'd be following the instruction of St Peter, 'We must obey God rather than people'. I oppose the horrific child sexual abuse in some churches, but I don't want those situations to deflect from the biblical precedent of being faithful to Scripture in the confidential confessional.

Dear Spencer,

Don't you have confessions in your church?

I just wonder: the Roman Catholic church, at some stage, decided that a confessor must be a priest, but is this absolutely necessary? The proposed legislation specifies "religious leaders", so unless the confessor is in a leadership role, s/he could still administer confessions even in this time of trouble, isn't it? How about separating the roles then and ordaining lay-persons as confessors? Or what if an ordained priest is assigned no other position in the church, other than taking confessions?

In any case, the attempt of a secular regime to define "religious leader" in their laws is laughable. These self-appointed "authorities" cannot even tell what a religion is and who is religious or otherwise.

Yuyutsu,

I am ordained (retired) with The Christian & Missionary Alliance of Australia, an evangelical, mission-minded denomination. We do not subscribe to a confession by have a "Statement of Faith": http://www.cma.org.au/doctrinal-statement/

Since there is no Alliance Church local to where I live, I attend a Presbyterian Church that subscribes to The Westminster Confession of Faith: http://www.presbyterian.org.au/images/downloads/wcf/WCF-AustVersion-2019.pdf?5d50ad3a

<<I just wonder: the Roman Catholic church, at some stage, decided that a confessor must be a priest, but is this absolutely necessary?>>

I don't support the RCC position because of this mandate, "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." (James 5:16).

As a long-term counsellor of many secular people, if a person confessed in counselling that he/she was sexually abusing a child, I would encourage the person to confess to the police. I would offer to go to the police station with him or her. The organisations I worked for had policies such as (my paraphrase): If any person counselled is committing an illegal act, this organisation has a legal obligation to report such behaviour to the appropriate authorities. In the ToS which the client signed, the ToS were spelled out about illegal activity shared in counselling sessions.

<< How about separating the roles then and ordaining lay-persons as confessors?>>

There is no need to do that if,

(1) Churches followed the biblical mandate of making confession not the exclusive right of the church leader, and
(2) Have it written into the policies of religious organisations that it is a requirement for them to report to authorities when clients are breaking the law.

The RCC and other denominations could stop this being an issue by making the confessional a place of 'confidentiality, truth, and submission to governing authorities (Romans 13:1)'.

"Bugger?" said the Bishop to the Choir Boy.

Why all the concentration on the Roman Rite of Catholicism?

Have you all forgotten about the other Rites, such as the Alexandrian Rite, Armenian Rite, Byzantine Rite etc., etc?

Hi Is Mise

Yes very true.

Bishops, priests and monks from all denominations/rites abuse their (tribal, not "God" given) positions by buggering Choir Boys.

plantagenet,

Care to give a reference, particularly to the Armenian Rite?

IM your odd use of "rite" I take to mean Christian Denomination. Also Jewish religious/school figures have been accused of child molesting.

On Armenian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Apostolic_Church#Modern_era

"In 2016 Agos published a report about child abuse during the 90s at the Jarankavorats Armenian School in Jerusalem. According to the report several of the clergymen raped a young male student. This story first aired in a documentary aired on Israeli television."

See further details http://www.agos.com.tr/en/article/14880/child-abuse-everywhere.

This is noting Agos is not an anti-Armenian, Turkish Government creation. See this Agos article on the Armenian Genocide committed by Turkey http://www.agos.com.tr/en/article/22673/what-is-the-un-asking-of-turkey

Dear Spencer,

Thank you for all the information.

Were the organisations you worked for also expecting counsellors to report to secular authorities the confessions of victims who forgave their abusers or who otherwise did not want others to know about what happened to them?

«The RCC and other denominations could stop this being an issue by making the confessional a place of 'confidentiality, truth, and submission to governing authorities (Romans 13:1)'.»

If an offender was ready to submit to governing authorities, then they wouldn't need the church - they could instead simply walk into a police station and confess their crimes to a police officer.

The assurance of absolute confidentiality is very essential to help all the others to relieve their crippling guilt - offenders, victims and even third-parties who just happened to find out about a crime, also those who offended, or were being offended, in thought only and are haunted by unwholesome fantasies.

I agree with Mr. Opinion. It would be good to get some good figures on the data. It seems over the years you hear people say attendance is growing or falling. And you only hear it from those who want it to fall say that it's falling, or wanting it to grow say that it's growing.

Creates two different narratives that might both be true depending on when we're talking about for when it grows or when it falls. But one narrative ignores the other so it sounds like if you listen to one or the other that there is only a fall in church goers or a rise in church goers. Instead of seeing if the data shows a trend of continued rise or fall outside of the usual dips and peaks that come and go. (Or if there is no actual trend and there just the dips and peaks for times when attendance rises or it falls)

plantagenet,

Nothing odd about the use of the word 'Rite' it's in common usage.

Thanks for that on the Armenian Rite, just goes to shew that homosexual infiltration of the churchs is widespread; in fact, it's a catholic problem.

NNS,

There is a place to go to find the research. It's called the National Church Life Survey (NCLS) that coincides with the Australian census every 4 years.

See: http://www.ncls.org.au/research/

I view the current malaise of the Roman Catholic church as very similar to the situation it faced in the 16th century when Martin Luther exposed the hypocrisy of indulgences. Now, in the 20th and 21st centuries the church is facing public exposure of its hypocrisy regarding sexual conduct and caring for the vulnerable. As in the 16th century, the church is fighting back. History shows that they lost the earlier battle, and hopefully history will repeat itself again with the current situation. It's about time church officials accepted the reality that we no longer live in the 16th century correctly known as "The Dark Ages".