Educated erudite and well argued in principle. And sets out the core principles underlying now dated WC. Which as a set of principles with universal application, seems to apply year in year out to fewer and fewer.

And manifestly ignored to start earlier and earlier to effectively discriminate between the haves and the have nots! Starting in the education sector!

The proud boast of western civilisation is the universal egalitarian objectivity of its application along with the birthplace of democracy and the rule of impartial law!

And as it now applies in both those worthy goals? Almost as credible in the real world as the fantasy of King Arthur and the Knights of the round table along with their ancient code of protecting and defending the weak against the excesses of the wicked.

Today's examples seem to be in reverse of those worthy goals and anything vaguely resembling democracy. The very foundation stone of WC, which to put it mildly, seems to have been flushed down the other WC (usurped) along with our rights and freedoms.

With a hugely manipulated (dirty deals done in the dead of night) political system that would seem to give us the finest democracy money can buy and justice reserved for the wealthy and privileged. Regardless of how intellectually able those left behind are! And our very future squandered by trogladites seeking to preserve and expand unearned privilege!

Little wonder WC is going backwards at a rate of knots and just about to be replaced by cruel tyrannical systems and rat eat rat commercialism that just serves the already privileged. You know, those self-made men born in the log cabins, hewn from the wilderness with their own bare hands.

Like D.T., a portly C. P. and an equally rotund G.R.?
Alan B.

That there is a controversy about teaching our own culture indicates just how sick people in the West have become. To suggest that the West is “enriching itself by assimilating people and ideas from other cultures” is absurd. And “competing civilisations”. There is no contest. People are flooding to the West from the others; in many cases bringing the the horrors of their own 'civilisations’ with them.

The study of Western civilisation should be mandatory for all people, starting with 'early learning’ centres, which used to be play schools, but are now political re-education camps run by Marxist, anti-West zealots.

University courses in Law, Philosophy, Diplomacy, Ancient and Modern History just happen to be courses in Theoretical and Applied Western Civilisation.

So Planta wish those who score Ramsay Undergraduate Scholarships in Western Civilisation well.

http://www.ramsaycentre.org/about-us/frequently-asked-questions/

Is Western Civilisation better?
I'm increasingly uncomfortable with it but at this stage there are no better alternatives.
Western education seems to have been severely undermined by anti western megalomaniacs posing as "nondiscryminary". They're mainly in the music industry & some in the movie industry.
Universities have been sucked in decades ago.
The success of Western Civilisation is due to its conservative component, not the ruinous progressive regressors.

These three references from the same book provide a very sobering assessment of the brave-new-world human situation as created by Western civilization in the 21st century.
http://fearnomore.vision/integrity-of-the-whole
http://www.da-peace.org/excerpt-two-is-not-peace
http://www.dabase.org/not2p1.htm 100 or so summary points

Studying the "great books" of the West will not make one iota of a positive difference to what is described in the above references.

Indeed what is described therein is the INEVITABLE outcome of the world-view which in one way or another is promoted in ALL of the "great books".

Instead of Australia's Western Civilisation would you WC Deniers (WCDs) prefer:

- Communism?

- Dictatorship? (eg. North Korea?)

- Absolute Monarchy by Philosopher Kings?

- Homesteader Anarchy? or

- Tribal Rule?

Just look at where people want to enter illegally and you will see what cultures set up the highest standards of living. It wasn't Marxism and it wasn't Islam.

runner,
Spot-on !

I fully agree with james0074 - finding a better way to tow a 'van proves western civilisation is better. I bet the Aztecs never even thought about that!

_______________________________________________________________

Is Western Civilisation better? It's the wrong question.

The question is "is it better for me, you and Australia". Expecting China or Iran to agree the west is better is insane.

So is it better for us? Unless someone wants to pick something else out of plantagenet's list, clearly the answer is that it is better for us. And its continuation is vital for us. So do what we need to do to ensure its survival. The very starting point for that is showing the young how and why its better and how its being slowly eroded.

I've said before that things like the ending of slavery only occurred because of the rise of western culture and that its (slavery's) return will soon follow the superseding of western culture.

Equally things like human rights, equality for women and gays, and a host of other benefits of western culture (eg freedom of speech) will disappear if that culture fails

Hi Mhaze,

Pretty much all societies have employed slavery, when they had the clout to enforce it. Some still do. The question is: when and where was its abolition first championed and enacted ?

The British, in 1809, under the influence of William Wilberforce. Governor Arthur Philip was a friend of his.

UNLESS one counts Philip's declaration on Jan 26, 1788, that the colony of New South Wales would never contain slaves. In which case, the first territory in the world to ban slavery was around Sydney Harbour.

Yes, some societies do still practise slavery, slave markets, people being bought and sold - outright, in many Muslim countries such as Mauretania; widespread debt slavery for life, as in India and no doubt other countries.

Tell it like it is. The rights and wrongs of an evil (as we see it now, in our enlightened world) like slavery have probably been chewed over ever since the Greeks, maybe for 2,500 years. That thread of discussion, about the limits of human power over other humans, and the evolution of notions of human rights, is surely something worth studying. If one can find such threads in Islam, in tribal societies' ethos, in Hinduism, even in Buddhism, then those respective evolutionary strands should be studied and compared, if they exist.

And if they don't, or if they are barely discernible, then that should be pointed out too. Perhaps a study of Western Civilisation is inevitably a study of comparative civilisations, and their respective attitudes to social and political fundamentals like equality before the law, the rule of law, democracy and one-person/one vote, limited terms of governing, protection of the freedoms of expression and belief, etc. Ideally, they might include respect for the opinions of others and for the right to express them without threats (but with the reciprocal expectation that those others can criticise them); and the never-ending search for the truth, warts and all.

Nothing human is perfect, or ever will be. So it's the journey, not the destination, that matters.

Cheers,

Joe

//Instead of Australia's Western Civilisation would you WC Deniers (WCDs) prefer://

I would prefer (F), none of the above. I'm in favour of an anarcho-syndicalist commune, where we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting; by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more....

You know what? F^&k it, let's just have a system based on strange women lying in ponds distributing swords. Imagine the red tape we could save.

Hi Toni,

Gosh, I wonder if your model has ever been tried, and how it worked out.

One lesson of history, it seems, is that in every generation, some half-arsed idea gets yet another running. And another lesson is: that few of us learn the lessons of history. As Marx wrote, the second time (and infinitely more times into the dismal future), it is a laughable farce.

But keep trying, Toni :). My poor old grand-dad was an anarchist, a Wobbly. I wonder what he would think these days.

Cheers,

Joe

//Gosh, I wonder if your model has ever been tried, and how it worked out.//

As I recall from the documentary about medieval English life I watched, yes it has been tried. And it worked out in the peasants being repressed. But hey, don't they all?

You know what, Toni? All those Vietnam Vets came back to Australia in the knowledge that they had put their lives on the line and lost their mates so that the rabble greeting them with taunts of "murderer" and "baby killer" could do so without fear of reprisal or persecution. Perhaps you could share a working example of your great system that has not degenerated into a murderous totalitarian regime? I am a big supporter of the current system because I have seen what the alternatives deliver. Venezuela was the socialist nirvana a few years ago. Today it is a totalitarian nightmare, free of food, medicine and toilet paper. The only reason it continues on its murderous path is because of support from Russia and China, those wonderful libertarian nations!

Fester,
I wonder who feeds Toni Lavis ?

//Perhaps you could share a working example of your great system that has not degenerated into a murderous totalitarian regime?//

Sure, here's the relevant scene from that doco about Medieval England I watched:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng

//I wonder who feeds Toni Lavis ?//

I wonder who wipes the drool of indy's chin.

Sadly Toni, all those high ideals of socialism have created enslavement by corrupt and incompetent totalitarian bureaucracies, happy to leave their neglected subjects in poverty, and all too ready to torture and murder those who would challenge their undemocratic authority. No welfare or healthcare in socialist nirvanas, Toni.

Toni,

Respect.

But I'm sure you could have drawn this out for a few days more.

Anyhow, for what its worth, the problem with the system you advocate is that people become enchanted by anarchism and start to break away from the ideology. In the end the entire society is infested with splitters.

Thereafter the people become so disenchanted that they beg to be saved by someone like brave Sir Robin.

//all those high ideals of socialism have created enslavement by corrupt and incompetent totalitarian bureaucracies, happy to leave their neglected subjects in poverty, and all too ready to torture and murder those who would challenge their undemocratic authority. No welfare or healthcare in socialist nirvanas, Toni.//

Ah yes, but are there welfare and healthcare in aquatic female sword hurling nirvanas? That's the question you should be asking, Fester.

Toni,

What is to stop you from starting your own nirvana in Australia? All you need do is find enough like minded people and you can form your own collective. Do you think you could do that in a socialist country?

//What is to stop you from starting your own nirvana in Australia? All you need do is find enough like minded people and you can form your own collective.//

Just my own unwillingness to form a collective, I suppose. Since I'm clearly in favour of the sword tossing model. I mean really, what part of:

//F^&k it, let's just have a system based on strange women lying in ponds distributing swords. Imagine the red tape we could save.//

did you fail to comprehend?

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills."

Toni,

What is there to stop you finding like minded people and implementing your nirvana other than your lack of motivation? I might see your nirvana as frivolous and stupid, but with the system we have I have a right to my opinion (although with 18c I have to be careful what I say lest I unleash a bureaucratic persecution) and you have your right to live the dream.

//What is there to stop you finding like minded people and implementing your nirvana other than your lack of motivation?//

A shortage women putting their hand up to perform the fundamental task of lying in ponds handing out the swords. I reckon that would be probably be the biggest difficulty in implementing the system.

//I might see your nirvana as frivolous and stupid//

I should hope so.

Toni,

I think your chances of finding a sword chucking water woman are about the same as socialists getting the mix right, but I am glad we share a skepticism of radical reform. I hope you can find a dream you can realise.

//I think your chances of finding a sword chucking water woman are about the same as socialists getting the mix right//

On the other hand, ponds in England are a lot colder than Australian ponds and they still managed to find woman for the job, so maybe it's not so hard as 'twould first appear. And it's gotta be worth a shot, right? It's clearly an awesome system (aside from a small amount of peasant repression, and nobody gives a sh!t about them).

I have to say that I was very dubious about Toni's waterytartocracy but having thought about it and after due consideration, I see its attractions.... https://i.imgur.com/Irl4gLm.jpg (sorry - have to leave the 's' in ....doesn't work otherwise).

I think the system has a promising future or, as Eric Morecambe would say it has big things in front of it.

Well Toni, look for a suitable property and you can stage your own "Lady of the Lake" reenactments to keep the faith strong.

What is to stop you from starting your own nirvana in Australia?
Fester,
Sadly but true, Australians !

//Well Toni, look for a suitable property and you can stage your own "Lady of the Lake" reenactments to keep the faith strong.//

Firstly, what I'm proposing is a waterytartocracy (good word, mhaze). Note the 'tart' bit. We're not talking about any 'Ladies' here.

Secondly, faith? Eh? Not really sure what you're getting at there.

Thirdly, I already had a particular lake in mind, in fact that's one of the easiest things to sort out. Since we've already gone the trouble to build so much governmental infrastructure in Canberra, I figured Lake Burley Griffin would be the most appropriate home for our watery tart.

Belly,

"mhaze I find myself in total support for you in the child like verbal war that has been imposed on you".

Well I appreciate that Belly. But I'm a big boy. I can look after myself. But its nice to see that others can see through Phil's cant.

oops...wrong thread.

Mea mega culpa

Toni,

"I already had a particular lake in mind, in fact that's one of the easiest things to sort out."

Most human civilisations have developed around rivers. It's pretty obvious why.

Good luck getting approval, Toni.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/act/miss-summernats-cancelled-as-canberra-car-festival-tries-to-clean-up-its-image-20171207-h00fit.html

//Good luck getting approval, Toni.//

It'll be fine, we just won't invite any bogans to the sword tossing. It'll be a classy do for classy people, we'll have no trouble there. Ye gods, could you imagine if we invited bogans and one of them got hold of the sword. One shudders to think...

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1660&context=mlr

After reading this America looks mild in comparison to Australia.

Is western civilization better.?

one word. YES!

That's why other cultures a busting their gaskets to come.

«WC can be defined succinctly as the belief that all humans have a right to attain their full potential, live in liberty and pursue happiness and that society should be organised to deliver these rights.»

This is the author's wishful-thinking, for only few may oppose it, but not what WC actually is.

WC can be defined succinctly as the belief in material science+technology, commercialism and entertainment.

None of these brings out one's full potential and none of these provides liberty or happiness.

In WC, society is organised to dull the intellect, lull people with material toys and use entertainment to anaesthetise the population and always keep them away from WC's nemesis - boredom.