Kalweb, Kay, things are getting serious when I find myself lying awake in the early hours wondering whether I got the previous post [I nearly said the last post] right. I missed two things: 1. I forgot to mention the role played by booze and drugs in the "sweet talk and bulldust" phase.
2. I remembered a rape case in my area some years ago, where a male abducted and raped a woman from a group they both belonged to out of revenge and anger. Then I thought of ex-husbands raping their former wives out of hatred etc. So I acknowledge that rape can happen when the motive is hatred/jealousy/spite/revenge, and the object is to hurt physically and psychologically by traumatising and humiliating the victim.

However, I think these cases represent only a small percentage maybe 5-10% of cases, and bulk of them are represented by the scenario I have outlined, i.e. the prime goal is sex backed up by force, including date rape and rape by abduction from the street by carloads of curs who deserve the contempt of the community and the wrath of the Courts [which they rarely get].
Some women get themselves into date rape situations by acting foolishly. However, if they say "No" even late in proceedings, the male should back off and call it a night, not use force. Unfortunately, many men don't see it that way. I know because I've argued with them about it. Rape is a terrible thing and should be taken more seriously by Judges; and women should use some common sense about how much testosterone they stir up by the way they dress and conduct themselves. Fair enough?

This "blokesworld" thing seems pretty tame to me. Why all the debate?

There's prostitution out there, table/pole dancing, breasts on billboards, strip-club style dancing on MTV, hardcore porn within reach of kids who use computers. Seems to me that female (and male) sexuality is more a marketing commodity than ever before.

On the whole - society seems to have gone with this, women included, although the internet thing did come as a bit of a surprise.

The significant battles are already lost in my view - but for those wanting to resist the trend, I'd argue that blokesworld is irrelevant.

Think of it this way, Big boy. These people you describe are precisely what Kalweb etc are talking about. Mate, I frequent these places you describe & on the whole the generally unpissed audience is courteous, respectful & there for the show. The odd looney is dealt with appropriately by security. The guys don't leave the show with a violent need for a root. We are gentlemen with a mutual respect for the female.
The 'teenage' mentality of 'needing to score' you describe rarely includes violence & if It does, it falls in the sociopathic category you describe. It does happen. Do consider that the majority of rape cases occur in "known circumstances' where the victim knows the assailant.
I agree with Wombat, enuff said here...

Swilkie, Still waiting to hear why you would ban "Big Brother".

Ok, Big Al, one more on this header to finish up.
You want disrespect for the female then try the 'three handed massage' episode of BB (dick rub to back of head while massaging shoulders). Done entirely to impress the audience, I might add. Even if she knew what was going on, it certainly did not set a good scene for impressionable viewers. The authorities repremanded ch10.
Other than this, & similar I find BB lame & simply cannot believe It has an audience. Says a lot about western mentality, really...
Its off to greener pastures...

Swilkie, Thanks for your reply. I agree with you about Big Brother. From the little I have seen, it is a mixture of boredom, filth and degradation, evidenced by that "massage". I am pleased to see that you have boundaries, a "line in the sand" which you won't allow to be crossed in these matters, which is more than I can say about TV executives such as those in Channel 10. They obviously think the sky's the limit, and don't give a damn. They have been reprimanded, but that is nothing to them. They will need to feel some pain before they'll change, and the new Broadcasting Authority is just as toothless as the old one. Someone says they are getting paid under false pretences, and I agree. "Useless as tits on a bull" as one bloke said.

So far as your comment about the audience at Blokesworld-type shows being gentlemen who have mutual respect with the women performers[forget the exact words] I can't agree. How can you have respect for the women who perform these acts? There was one "Gentlemans' Evening" at my local football club which had a "Door Prize" consisting of sex on the stage with one of the girls. It was won by a middle-aged married man[ I knew him] who duly claimed his prize in full view of the audience urging him on. From what my friends and neighbours tell me about these shows, the blokes regard the girls as sluts and have no respect at all for them. I have seen research which claims that strippers and girls in these shows have no regard for the audience and I wouldn't be surprised if that were also true. Respect is extremely important between people, esecially men and women. You don't try and degrade someone you respect. Anyway, since you are leaving this thread, I'll say goodbye, and maybe we'll cross swords in another argument.