Louis – you say, “Determinism doesn't negate reason”.

Harris claims that determinism is true and that therefore means we are not in control of our minds.

If we are not in control of our minds then how can the uncontrolled noises that we produce or the uncontrolled symbols that we make have any meaning? – just as the uncontrolled noises created by avalanches and the shapes formed by clouds have no meaning.

The SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) researchers are not looking just for noise coming from outer space – there is plenty of static out there – what they are looking for are sounds that show evidence of being controlled. It is only controlled sound that indicates that there is intelligence and thus the possibility of reason.

If we are not in control of our minds then we are not controlling what we say or write. If we are not controlling these things then we are simply generating meaningless noise. Therefore under those circumstances, reason is impossible.

Remember that Harris wrote, "unconscious neural events determine our thoughts and actions and are themselves determined by prior causes of which we are subjectively unaware," (p. 16) and "The next choice you make will come out of the darkness of prior causes that you, the conscious witness of your experience did not bring into being" (p. 34). So according to Harris, what emanates from us has nothing to do with us as thinking human beings but is solely the result of the mindless laws of physics acting on matter.

But clearly we can reason : hence determinism must be false.

You ask, how have we come to have free will? Free will is only possible if we are somehow able to override the clockwork mechanism of the physical universe. There would have to be a non-physical aspect to our human make-up – a soul? -in order for this to be able to happen.

Evolution cannot account for a non-physical soul, therefore we must have been created by a non-physical being who can make a soul and thus give us free will.

Dear JP,

Nothing in the objective world, INCLUDING INTELLIGENCE, can disprove determinism, so those who worship the physical and deny the reality of themselves and God, can never be convinced. You are looking for evidence in the wrong direction - look inside instead and find all answers within!

Yes, determinism is not real, but only because the world around us itself is not the ultimate reality.

Yuyutsu,

<<Nothing in the objective world, INCLUDING INTELLIGENCE, can disprove determinism, so those who worship the physical and deny the reality of themselves and God, can never be convinced. You are looking for evidence in the wrong direction - look inside instead and find all answers within!>>

How can the 'objective world' of 'determinism' be proven if it depends on the evidence 'inside' each individual?

That appeals to existential experiences that vary from person to person.

Do you suggest my answer may be different to yours, but that is the 'answer' for you and me? What if my internal evidence encourages me to hate and kill those who are violently angry with me?

How can that work itself out in an Australian culture that is plagued by existential meaninglessness. I was a counsellor and counselling manager for 34 years and these people came in droves.

The experience within has led many a person to commit suicide and heinous crimes.

Dear OzSpen,

I did not understand your question: "How can the 'objective world' of 'determinism' be proven if...", because it cannot, because the theory of determinism is false. But as I told JP, it cannot be disproved either except by oneself, for oneself. So those who rather believe in determinism have the free will to do so!

The truth is the truth, regardless whether knowing it is liable to produce crime and suicide. You may however prefer for some people not to be aware of it - and this is already the case.

The ultimate truth is God, that there is nothing but God, that you are God and the world is your playground and you can do with it as you please, but others are also God and what appears to you to be different persons, your person and other persons, are actually all one and the same.

When you know this truth, you understand that you cannot truly kill others or yourself.

With the exception of the most heinous psychopaths, there is a natural mechanism by which those who feel guilty and liable to do harmful things would, in order to limit their violence, never allow themselves to expand and know or even understand this highest truth. In fact they would not even allow themselves to believe that they have any free will - they consider themselves victims and blame their circumstances, so they find determinism a convenient excuse. You could explain to them otherwise, but they just won't get it, they won't believe, they won't understand - not until they are willing to review their crimes, confess and repent.

To Not_Now.Soon,

Thanks for the analogy, it's helped me understand your perspective. I see what you are saying,though I would ask, where do our "walls" end and where does our free will begin?

You use the example of an alcoholic, who overcomes their alcoholism.

This is indeed an example of someone who is able to overcome addiction, though what of those who don't overcome addiction? Did they choose to remain addicted? I would argue that they are simply more susceptible to the immediate gratification of alcohol, and that if they had been born into a different brain or environment, that susceptibility may be reduced or altogether removed.

What is it that makes one become addicted to a substance initially?

Often times it is linked to trauma or, I would imagine, poor external conditions in ones life and a lack of the ability to delay gratification. Again I would argue that most of these factors were endowed upon individuals without their consent or authorship, and hence re-iterates why we lack free will.

Louis

To Ozspen,

I often think of that parable within The Bible, despite not being particularly religious. The tale of Adam and Eve has great power and depth and I think the message it sends helps to influence individuals to strive to be better people. (We do not need free will to be influenced, just as a feather doesn't need free will to be influenced by the wind.)

However, you mention that we are able to choose good from evil. What of a psychopath, pyromaniac or pedophile? They didn't choose their brain, and yet they are often subject to deleterious impulses which the ordinary layman doesn't have to confront, due to nothing other than chance.

Or, to make the point even more realistically, what of someone born with extreme depression?

Imagine that due to either circumstance, or entirely due to neurology, an individual is unable to perceive the positive facets of reality as easily as you or I. For that person, in their mind, the logical next step may unfortunately be suicide. Did they choose to be suicidal? Or to perceive the world negatively? Or were they instead born that way?

Louis