Dear OzSpen,

Thank you for the quotes and the assessment: I agree.

Yes, we are born and live in sin and death, yes we need a saviour.

The depiction of the nature of human beings is the same in Christian and Hindu Scriptures, but what the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita add is: "Yes, this is indeed the nature of human beings, but WE - YOU and I, only SEEM to be human beings, it is only an illusion. So long as we delusively believe ourselves to be human beings, we live in sin and death, and suffer accordingly, but salvation comes when, by God's grace, we wake up and shake away this illusion. Once we awaken from this nightmare, we recall who we really are, who we always truly were, which is God."

Yuyutsu,

<<The depiction of the nature of human beings is the same in Christian and Hindu Scriptures, but what the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita add is: "Yes, this is indeed the nature of human beings, but WE - YOU and I, only SEEM to be human beings, it is only an illusion.>>

No, it's not the same. Nowhere do the Christian Scriptures state that people "ONLY SEEM to be human beings, it is only an illusion".

That kind of statement doesn't match reality. Christian alatheia (truth) is that which conforms with reality.

I can assure you that when I've had my FIVE open-heart, valve replacement heart surgeries that the cardiac surgeon was operating on a real human body. I have a zipper of a scar down my chest to prove my real heart and body have been cut wide open for the surgeon to operate on a real, genuine, human body.

There was no body of illusion here. The pain experienced was in a real human body. The holes from the tubes draining my stomach had to drain the blood and other gunk, not from an illusion, but from a real human body. I have scars to prove it.

I pop quite a few pills into my body every day to keep the body - not an illusion - functioning as well as possible.

This is but one example of how the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita of Hinduism have teachings that do not conform with reality.

To Yuyutsu.

I think I see what you're saying about loving your neighbor as yourself. However, there's a difference between compassion kindness and understanding, versus being the same.

-If a friend has a child or a spouse or a brother that you don't get along with, sometimes people will try to put up with them for the sake of the friend. Because of this things might get better, or they might just stay silent about things that bother them. With this attitude though, Christians are asked to be good to others. Because regardless of how we feel, God loves them. When you show kindness to the least of them then you are showing kindness to God kind of thing.

-Similarly, if a person is empathic towards another, they can see themselves in the other person. Similar struggles, hopes, and journeys. But don't make the mistake to say they are the same. Christians are again told with this attitude to love and have mercy, because we are no better.

-Love your neighbor as you love yourself is (from my understanding) the goal for us to be compassionate and selfless in nature, instead of greedy and selfish. It doesn't say anyone is the same, but to love them regardless.

-There's more. Treat all men as if they were your brothers, and all women as if they are your sisters. The exception to this rule doesn't take away the heart of the message to be respectful, kind, and good to each other, but the exception to the rule adds to that sentiment of respect. The exception is directed for your spouse. Because this is something you don't share with your brothers and sisters the relationship between husband and wife is both more loyal, and more intimate. But don't try to loosen that to just anyone and lust after them. Treat them as if they are your brothers and sisters instead.

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If you consider these things, I get the confusion to conclude that we are all the same, and are all one. Expecially if you have religous texts that say as much. But in the bible God says that his thoughts are not our thoughts. His ways are not our ways. In this God has over and over shown his love for us and His authority at the same time. The roles God has communicated His relationship to us is from four different roles we see in life. 1) As a Father and us as the children. 2) As a Husband and the nation of Israel as well as the church body as collectively described as His wife. 3) As a Master and us as His servants. Though the others show His love more this one shows His authority more. 4) Lastly, God describes Himself as a shepherd, and us as His sheep, His flock. That He looks after us and is our caretaker.

Each of the roles God is given is one of an authority based on the narrative in the bible. Each of the roles that we are given (even all of us collectively) is still given a different identity then the one that God holds and even in partnership as the church body is considered the bride of God, that role of being a partner is still Biblically to be God's helper, and to work with Him in His endeavors. Not that we are God.

Regarding the 4 paths. I think those are a good approach to seeking God and Following Him. But that's where it ends. To be more then that requires God Himself to be in us. Have the Holy Spirit kind of thing. It's not something that we already have but is something God does in us.

Dear OzSpen,

«Nowhere do the Christian Scriptures state that people "ONLY SEEM to be human beings, it is only an illusion".»

I am not familiar enough with all Christian Scriptures, especially with the mystical compilations of Christian saints, to tell whether or not this is the case, but if you mean the bible only, then I agree that the bible does not address this. The Jewish Kabbalah, however, does and agrees with the Hindu scriptures on this matter.

I am sad to hear about your heart condition. Jesus too had his body punctured and underwent horrendous physical pains, but he did not complain, because he did not identify with the human body of his. It was only his body that was on the cross and it was only your body that was on the operating table.

I thought you may be interested in reading the deathbed account of the Australian spiritual teacher, Barry Long: http://www.barrylong.org/statements/what-it-is-to-die.shtml

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Dear Not_Now.Soon,

We may have good intentions and love others as others, but so long as we identify ourselves to the exclusion of others, we are unable to love the excluded "others" (even our spouse) AS OURSELVES.

Of course we should aspire and make efforts to love all others as ourselves, but accomplishing this is only possible by the grace of God, once our delusion, the sting of selfishness, is removed and we experience our unity as God directly.

Relating to God as Father, Spouse, Master and Shepard are good and powerful practices, especially for the devotional type of persons (though less so for the intellectual type). It is difficult to venerate God with an open heart while thinking in the back of your mind "the one I venerate is actually myself". Yes, it is the truth, the absolute Truth, but while you venerate and practice devotion you should put it completely aside. For the time-being it is for you only a theoretical idea anyway: by God's grace it will one day become the most obvious and undeniable reality.

Yuyutsu,

Barry Long died on 6 December 2003 from prostate cancer. He examined "another paradigm" about eternity. That paradigm included, "When I realise God or Self I realise the ultimate of my Self-knowledge up to that moment - that I and God or Self are one".

This is from your Hindu worldview.

Since you aren't <<familiar enough with all Christian Scriptures>> to understand what the Bible says about our eternal destinies, I remind you there is no need to speculate about Self-knowledge and our being God or Self. That's an illusion from Hinduism.

The biblical Scriptures are very clear that human beings are made in the image of God. They are destined for one of two places in eternity: eternal life through Jesus Christ or eternal damnation (see Matthew 25:46, "They [the unrighteous] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life").

You failed to address the falsehood that the body is an illusion.

My heart condition was used as an example to demonstrate we are not illusions but are real people who experience real pain in our real physical bodies.

Try telling an accident victim that his or her physical body is an illusion!