.

Dear Runner,

.

You wrote :

« … the rationale of something from nothing, design from a non designer, order from chaos. Congratulations you clever ones. And to call it 'rational'. What a joke »
.

That is a criticism you often make on this OLO forum – systematically directed at those who do not share your religious belief: that God created the universe and everything in it (with the exception, perhaps, of himself) – for as far as I can recall, you do not explain which god or designer made God himself, and which other god or designer made the preceding god who made God himself, and which yet other god etc., etc., …

I am curious to know from what (according to your religious belief) God made the universe and everything in it. Presumably it was not from nothing. I suppose it must have been from something. So who made that something ? Where did it come from ?

If it was God himself who made that something, what did he make it from ? Did he make it from something else that he also made, from yet something else, etc., etc. … ? Or, could it be that, all things considered, he, himself, must have simply made it from nothing ?

If, indeed, he did made it from nothing, then, it seems that your criticism applies, not just to non-believers, but to all of us – whether we believe in God or not.

In that case, your phrase should read :

« … the rationale of something from nothing, design of nothing, order out of nothing. A hearty round of congratulations to us all. But to call it “rational”. What a joke. Let us all get together, believers and non-believers, and have a good laugh – about nothing. All for one and one for all ! »

.

Dear Banjo,

«I am curious to know from what (according to your religious belief) God made the universe and everything in it.»

There are many speculations regarding the meaning of Genesis 1:2 even in the original text, how more so in the English translations, for example:

"And the earth was without form, and void" (KJV)
"Now the earth was formless and empty" (NIV)
"The earth was an empty waste" (NLV)
"And the earth was without order, and empty" (JUB)
"Earth was a soup of nothingness" (MSG)
"When the earth was as yet unformed and desolate" (EXB)
"The earth was completely empty" (ERV)

The original text says: "And the earth was 'Tohu' and 'Vohu'".

But what ARE those two?

Some sources suggest "Wondering" [over the desolation] and "blank-staring" [over the emptiness] while modern speculations suggest that Tohu and Vohu were archaic giant reptiles, the helpers of the goddess of salt-water, Tihamat, whom God conquered.

But bearing in mind that in very ancient times scroll-space was scarce, what I read in Genesis 1:2 is:

"And the earth was 'Oto Hu' and 'Vo Hu'": The earth was that same Him (God) and in Him.

There was nothing but God, this still is so and ever will remain so:
Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.

To Banjo Peterson.

You've asked who created God, and then who created that creator, and so on. Here is another explaination to consider. God is the potter and everything in the universe is His making. Now when considering a craftsman of any kind, you don't ask a potter who works with clay, "are you made of clay like your vases?" Or to a mechanic building cars, "are you made of the same stuff your cars are built from?" In the same way that a craftsman isn't bound in the same way his creations are but instead of being made from clay and set in an oven, or build out of metal and plastic parts, instead that craftsman was born and is nothing like his creations because of that.

The difference here though is that God has no beginnings, but instead is eternal. With our finite world where everyone is born and dies, and everything has a shelf life before needing to be replaced or repaired, the idea of being eternal us a jarring idea. But that is what God is described as. If He is real, then He is eternal. The next should be to see if God exists, instead of arguing which philosophy is right, and inserting that God needs a creator Himself. Since God is real, and can be found if someone looks, the arguments for trying to rationalize God away are of no merit. (Not that He always is found, but if I can do it, so can you. He's not hiding).

To Yuyutsu. Sorry for not getting back to you yet. The boiling water and souls finally meeting up with God is a fine explaination, but still I disagree with it. Though
I am now looking for the book that Toni Lavis recommended that the world is indeed getting better. (Thankyou for that Toni).

From what I know of the world we are still a barbaric creature. With not even too long ago a war to end all wars being followed up by it's continuation of World War II. Civil wars, genosides, and terrorism are part of our lives and part of the world. We also have inspiring acts of kindness and compassion that exist along side our societies crimes and corruption. And nothing that I read from ancient texts describes us as anything different then we are now. In fact some pieces are considered timeless like Shakespeare who protrayed the drama of his day still applies even without kings and royalty in the world having the same focus they did then. This conclusion that we are the same as we've always been, if it is true robs me of any conclusion of people advancing through multiple lives or that people are evolving and becoming something different then what we use to be.

The other aspect of multiple lives and eventually merging with God, is something about the population growth. That our world gets more populated instead of less populated, challenges the explanation that we are all old souls living new lives until we merge with God.

(Continued)

(Continued)

Not that people and new souls can't be created, but in a general sense the issue is that among all of the philosophies in the world, any of them can be true or can be false, until someone brings up a means to measure them by. To validate or to invalidate them. Nothing you post is something I can look at to test and measure. It is either just accepted or not accepted and that's kind of the end of it. My views have the same struggle too, except for the point about God. If you can find God then that validates that He is real. If anyone else finds Him that validates Him as well. If He answers prayers, that speak on who He is to being outside of us instead the sum of everything. And if the teachings and wisdom that is taught from God shows merit by those who act of them, that validates His ways and differentiates them from other philosophies and lifestyles.

Though these aspects to validate aren't the sum of my beliefs about God, they do reinforce them. I can speak of God as the creator and compare Him to a potter molding and creating a vase, because of the ways He acts in the world show a small amount of what He can do.

If the comparison of our souls being like boiling water evaporating little at a time, then please give me an example in the world that can be used as a means to validate the explanation. I know you believe the way you do for a reason, so I'm sure you can dig deep to share what reinforces your views as being true.

.

Dear Yuyutsu,

.

The speculation of the authors of the Hebrew bible are amusing. They, no doubt, did their best with their limited knowledge, logic and imagination.

Here are a few interesting indications drawn from the current state of the art of astrophysics :

Age of the universe :

In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The current measurement is 13.799 billion years (give or take 21 billion years).

Composition of the universe :

Latest estimate (2013) indicates that the universe is composed of 68.3% dark energy, 26.8% dark matter, and 4.9% ordinary matter.

Shape of the universe :

The shape of the global universe is estimated to be infinite and flat.

End of the universe :

Alternative theories for the ultimate fate of the universe include a Big Rip, Big Bounce, Big Freeze, Big Crunch or possible proton decay.

The time remaining before the universe ends in a Big Rip is 22 billion years. For a Big Crunch the time left is 11 trillion years.

Life Span of the universe :

The estimated maximum life span of the universe is 25.000 billion years (Big Bang to Big Crunch).

Age of planet earth :

4.54 billion years (give or take 50 million years).

End of planet earth :

It is estimated that the sun will commence expanding 5 billion years from now and its heat will destroy all life on earth. It will absorb/destroy planet earth 7.5 billion years from now.

Life Span of planet earth :

12 billion years

.

(Continued … )

.