Dear Yuyutsu,

My mother passed away in late January this year.

I miss her dreadfully.

She has left such a huge gap in my life because
she was such a large part of it.

I certainly hope that one day we shall meet
again. However Thank You for your concern about her.

As for "My" laws, et cetera? They are not "My" laws
but the laws of the country of which I am a citizen.
And laws that as a citizen I am expected to abide by.

From your posts I take it that you are not an
Australian citizen. The Australian Citizenship Oath or
Affirmation tries to capture the essence of what it means
to be an Australian. It reads as follows - "From this
time forward (under God) I pledge my loyalty to Australia
and its people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose
rights and liberties I respect and whose laws I will uphold
and obey."

To be an Australian citizen one pledges loyalty - first loyalty
to Australia. One pledges to share certain beliefs - democratic
beliefs - to respect the rights and liberty of others and to respect
the rule of law.

There is a lot of sense in this pledge. Unless we have a
consensus of support about how we will form our legislatures and
an agreement to abide by its laws, none of us will be able to enjoy
our rights and liberties without being threatened by others.

We have a compact to live under a democratic legislature and obey the
laws it makes. In doing this the rights and liberties of all are
protected.

You obviously don't agree with this. There's nothing more to be
said.

"You obviously don't agree with this. There's nothing more to be
said."

Until the next time that you post in this thread!!

Dear Foxy,

I am so sorry to hear about your mother.
You have mentioned her many times over the past years.
My condolences, may she rest in peace.
I also miss my mother dreadfully, tomorrow is her anniversary.

At the time I became an Australian citizen, both the citizenship-pledge was quite different and I too was quite young and naive, not understanding half of what I know today. There is no way I could have become an Australian citizen had I needed to do it today.

I still sincerely wonder and this is a serious question:

Knowing how much you love your mother, also knowing how much you love Australia, suppose, God forbid, while your mother still lived and was well, the democratically-elected Australian parliament legislated that you must kill your own dear mother - would you obey?

My second question is:

Knowing that for a Christian priest, breaking the seal of the confession is like, if not worse than, killing his mother - can you sleep at night while knowing that you are a part of such a body of people which orders others to do such things.

To Yuyutsu.

If you'd like to know what Jesus taught His disciples read Jesus's teachings, and His words in the gospels.

Regarding rebellion, I don't think Jesus would teach them to rebel. I think Jesus taught Israel not to rebel against Rome was part of a warning, not just a teaching. Like some prophets in the old testament who warned of Babylon conquering Israel. In one instance because the warnings to turn from their sins was not met, one of the prophets (Jeremiah I think) warned them that it was too late to repent and avoid the punishment of being conquered, but instead advised to surrender to the Babylonians and submit under their rule (not rebel), because that was God's Judgement on Israel.

If you would like to know where to draw the line for how much authority and obedience to give the governing people that rule over you, then I would recommend looking at the book of Daniel (in the Old Testament). This is about Daniel and three others as they were taken to Babylon, and how those 4 people both served the Babylonian empire as well as how they stood their ground to not disobey God. From the very beginning you can see the difference between not following the law if they saw it to be against God's way, verses rejecting the Babylonian rule and rebelling. In their obedience to God the laws made against them to trip them up had worked enough to send them to the lion's pit, or even thrown into a furnace. Still each of these 4 people stayed true to serving Babylon while standing true to putting God first, and continuing to pray to God and not bow down to worship the king or the statue made of the King.

Where do you to draw the line for disobedience or obedience then? I would say it is never to open rebellion, and only if the law asks something that God forbids. There are other examples in the bible for putting God first but not being in rebellion if you are interested.

(Continued)

(Continued)

Back to the Jews who ignored Jesus's teaching. They rebelled and were scattered throughout the world. If you want to know where to flee then I suggest studying the history of the Jewish people after Rome kicked them out. I have only a small knowledge of the subject, but I know of at least a few instances where they are persecuted and fled to another country in large groups. Fleeing to America from Stalin Russia, and to America from Nazi Germany are two examples I am aware of. But I think their history has much more fleeing going on then just that.

As for this current topic. Of Priests mandated to turn in the confessions of those who commit child abuse (including other priests). I don't see this as an issue about following the law of the land or the law of God. Because they are not in disagreement as far as I'm aware. Jesus taught to turn from your sins. He did not say seek forgiveness and sin some more. The issues of child abuse is a black mark on the churches not just for the Catholic Church but on many others that have seen it and done nothing about it. And for this issue I give my own personal recommendation. Let those who sin seek forgiveness, and receive it, but also if they are priests tell them to step down from their position as a priest. If the law asked for too much then there might be an issue of whether to hide the offenders or not. But this is not asking to turn in any professing believer, but to turn in those who harm children.

I know you're not a Christian Yuyutsu, but are Hindu. However since this topic deals with the law and the church, I figure a Christian understanding is worth while regarding civil disobedience (if it is ever called for) verses open rebellion or refusal to acknowledge a gonverment's authority.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Seeing as you've addressed a few questions to me I feel
obliged to respond.

You asked if the State was to instruct me to kill my
mother would I do it?

I find that question rather bizarre to say the least.
Murder, rape, threatening or
endangering life are considered major indictable crimes
in this country.

As for priests and confessions? Australia is not a theocracy.
Everyone even religious believers are required to comply
with the law. Just societies enact laws to promote general
welfare. Religious believers can try to claim a religious
objection to compliance - but they're going to have to
convince a court to recognize their objection. A court may
decide that the protection of children for example outweighs
the objection. And yes, I would sleep very soundly if I knew
that children's lives were being saved.

See you on another discussion.