Dear SF,

Repetition is not going to give your false premises any validity.

I too have editing rights to Wikipedia. So what. Wikipedia is a strong starting point for any issue especially if the page is heavily referenced as this one is. To dismiss it so flippantly is inane.

And what is this crap?

“Hamas were being troublesome, true, but the general consensus from people who remember, and who were very opposed to the disengagement, say it was the fact Sharon was under investigation for fraud. He used this move to get Israeli judiciary,, which is overwhelmingly left-wing, off his back.”

Bollocks. The Gazans had fired over a hundred mortars and rockets into illegal settlements and border posts in Gaza before the West Bank really fired in anger.

Those in the West Bank tried appeasement rather than resistance and look where it has gotten them. 2/3rds of their land essentially out of bounds to most of them, check points, land theft, demolitions, water theft etc.

Whatever else the Gazans are a brave lot fighting for their land.

SR,

While "resistance" had a part in the withdrawal from Gaza, the conditions in the west bank are very different, and in spite of "resistance from Palestinians in the west bank the attackers typically came off far worse, and the ability to kill settlers was severely curtailed by building the wall.

Secondly, those in the west bank are still far better off than those suffering under Hamas tyranny.

Finally, the Gazans have got their land back, and where they are trying to invade is recognised as Israel, so what are they fighting for now?

Dear Shadow Minister,

You wrote;

“the ability to kill settlers was severely curtailed by building the wall.”

You really are just winging it today aren't you.

The illegal settlers are on the other side of the wall my friend, you know, the one with all the Palestinians. Of course fences and checkpoints to give a certain degree of separation but there aren't too many walls therein.

And they are not suffering under Hama's tyranny but rather a brutal blockade imposed by a corrupt, pernicious and vindictive government.

Simple fact, Gaza remains whole while the West Bank continues to be occupied and carved up by illegal settlements, where its people live with constant humiliation, fear of house demolition, and attacks from illegal settlers.

Unfortunately the situation epitomises the adage of dying on your feet rather than living on your knees. We use have some respect the former. Now it is just derision.

SteeleRedux

You have seriously lost the plot and your argument judging by your answers to both Shadow Minister, and myself.

It makes for a humorous read.

The contradictions are astounding.

“””The Gazans had fired over a hundred mortars and rockets into illegal settlements and border posts in Gaza before the West Bank really fired in anger.”””

What on earth are you talking about?
How on earth did Gaza fire into border posts with Gaza?
Unless you are talking about the wanton destruction of the Kerem Shalom crossing, thus stopping Israel supplying goods to Gaza and also setting fire to the oil pipeline bringing fuel into Gaza?

When did the “”West Bank really fired in anger””? That’s a new one unless you are talking about the second intifada which ended in 2005.

“”illegal settlements”” ? There are no illegal settlements anywhere, let alone in Gaza.

“”Gazans are a brave lot fighting for their land.””

Oh boy!! READ THIS. THEY HAVE THEIR LAND. THEIR PROBLEM IS THEY WANT ISRAEL TOO.

SR,

Thanks for confirming that the Gazans are not fighting for their land any more and to help you eat crow, please find the map which shows which settlements the boundary wall is protecting:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Barrier_route_July_2011.png

"The barrier was built during the Second Intifada that began in September 2000 and was defended by the Israeli government as necessary to stop the wave of violence inside Israel that the uprising had brought with it.[5] The Israeli government says that the barrier has been effective, as the number of suicide bombings carried out from the West Bank fell from 73 (between 2000 and July 2003 – the completion of the "first continuous segment") to 12 (from August 2003 to the end of 2006)."

Dear SF,

I had written;

”The Gazans had fired over a hundred mortars and rockets into illegal settlements and border posts in Gaza before the West Bank really fired in anger.”

You wrote in reply;

“What on earth are you talking about?”

Well here you go mate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2001

It was July 17 of 2001 before any mortars were fired from the West Bank. Count the number which had come from Gaza. It is well over a hundred. They fought hard to rid themselves of illegal settlements and checkpoints and they succeeded. The West Bank was not so lucky.

And stop saying there are no illegal settlements when the rest of the world thinks exactly the opposite. It shows you as a slimy propagandist .

Dear Shadow Minister,

I stand corrected. While there is a wall along the border the illegal internal barriers within the West Bank have indeed progressed to walls.

They are not there “to defended by the Israeli government as necessary to stop the wave of violence inside Israel that the uprising had brought with it” but rather to defend the illegal settlers within Palestine and the army of occupation that is required to protect them.

Gaza has over 1.2 million registered refugees who are attempting to exercise their right of return. This is why they annually march to the fence. Those refugees what their homes and fields back.