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The Forum > Article Comments > People of faith deserve honesty and respect from Australia’s political class > Comments

People of faith deserve honesty and respect from Australia’s political class : Comments

By Greg Donnelly, published 26/2/2018

From the robust 'get stuffed, tell'em they're dreamin' position to 'no plans' to change the existing arrangements seems to be opening up some wriggle room.

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People of faith deserve honesty, and part of that is. That homosexuallity is not something folk choose but part of proven genetic variation!

Look up, Alan Sanders and team of world leading geneticists.

One just can't continue discriminating against SSM! Particularly when under don't ask don't tell, these same people were already employed in many religious institutions!

If J.C. walked among us today with his reported gentle disposition Relatively, very mature, unmarried and with a personal predelition for exclusive male company!

Many of the alleged offended religious organisations would have refused to employ him, but particularly as a religious teacher on the grounds they assumed he just had to be gay!

We've had the demanded plebiscite/postal survey, the people have spoken and far too loudly for our representatives to ignore and this matter has been resolved!

No further discussion is needed and nobody in their right electoral mind is ever going to allow abysmally ignorant, misplaced discrimination, on the basis of natural God given gender differentiation to occur!

So Greg, get over yourself and your patent, displayed for all to see, bigotry and as a member or a powerful political party? Do something actually useful and get your fellow members to annunciate a logical rational reason why, for peaceful purpose only, nuclear power is verboten?

At least then you could actually walk in the masters shoes and stop trying to discriminate against a small cohort of his creations, created like his (different) Son, in his own image!

Given the poverty reduction promise of non privatised or cooperative enterprise, thorium nuclear power and equally impressive deionization dialysis desalination; that costs quarter of current desal and produces 90% potable water! UNDERSTAND YET? ALLEGED CHRISTIAN!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 26 February 2018 9:49:51 AM
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Please spare me this righteous "we're under attack" and "deserve honesty and respect" claptrap from the religious classes.

Just exactly how much "honesty and respect" did religious leaders around the world extend to the children in their care? How much "honesty and respect" did religious leaders around the world extend to young, unmarried pregnant women or their new born babies? Answer: zero, zip, zilch, none.

And now that these crimes have been exposed to the world to see in all their gory detail, the religious classes are demanding that we show them "honesty and respect". Based on the evidence exposed thus far, I would trust a religious leader as far as I would trust a politician. That is about as far as I could fart against a Category 1 cyclone.

Not content with a totally secret Ruddock inquiry (none of the submissions need to be published, unlike just about every other government inquiry) religious leaders are demanding the right to be excluded from the democratically enshrined laws of the land. They think it is still the Middle Ages when churches and religious leaders dictated every aspect of life.

Well sunshine, it isn't the middle ages, so either play by the laws of the land, or migrate to some desert island where you can live by whatever laws you want to impose on those willing to submit to them. I'm not one of them.
Posted by Aries54, Monday, 26 February 2018 10:17:45 AM
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Alan B and Aries54 well said. We don't need any more legislation.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Monday, 26 February 2018 10:32:11 AM
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Be very, very careful Aries54, farts that powerful are just honor bound to have great big lumps in them and projected at terminal velocity! Sh!t brick and fart a crowbar. And ouch!

We fired our guns and the British kept acoming so we fired once more and they began arunning down to the gulf of Mexico.
we fired our guns until the barrels melted down.
so, we powdered an alligator's backside; an when we touched the power off, the gator lost his mind.

Mummy! Sorry! I'll call the ambulance!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 26 February 2018 10:39:54 AM
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The usual squadron of ranters swarm overhead. God save us from idiots!
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 26 February 2018 10:52:25 AM
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Thanks for warning everyone Greg Donnelly...no excuse for us not knowing and acting...It was the Speaker in the British House of Commons who, sizzling, said of SSM and the Christian Churches opposed to it "We are going to bloody well make sure they marry them (SS partners)in their Churches". The Greens need to be constantly exposed for the big bag of wind they are. After the Melbourne's Catholic St Vincent's hospital announced it would not be complying with The Greens backed assisted suicide legislation, viz they wouldn't be deliberately killing any of their patients, Victorian Greens MP Colleen Hartland called for St Vincent's ..founded for the poor of the surrounding Fitzroy...into which the affluent Green voters now like to live...and be cared for, not killed by , to be stripped of any funding. Where Premier Daniel Andrews' dying father had been receiving treatment ? How many hospitals have The Greens established over the centuries? How many Fitzroy soup kitchens or St Vinny's food vans have they run? Discriminate against Christians, wipe out Christianity and let the "progressive" Greens do it ..riding their bikes from their Heritage Listed inner city North Melbourne town houses. All the work would be conveniently done when they arrived ! And when they are not chilling out in their environmentally sensitive coastal holiday homes!! What a joke they are ! All this said.. as their Marxist mentor Mao once famously said "Swimming against the tide strengthens the muscles" Real Christians are always strengthened by persecution...Problem is, the distinguishing feature of The Greens is that they are totally ignorant of history...other than Puritanism.
Posted by Denny, Monday, 26 February 2018 10:56:38 AM
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Alan B: Not that this has much to do with the topic but, BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THE GENETIC ARGUMENT.

As has been explained to you before, the genetic argument for homosexuals opens up a Pandora's Box of problems. The reason why is because many behaviours and predilections of people have a genetic component (this should be no surprise and rather obvious). However, some of these behaviours are not acceptable by the majority and if encouraged may have a negative outcome on innocent others or a detrimental outcome on society as a whole. But if you accept the genetic argument then you also must accept that these other behaviours are acceptable if you wish to remain logically consistent.

Here's some such examples:
-Male aggression and violence (there is no scientific doubt at all that males broadly across mammalian species are genetically wired to be generally more violent and aggressive than the females)
-Pychopathy; there is a considerable amount of accumulated evidence that some people are born without empathy and thus have a tendency to pychopathic behaviour.
-Pedophilia; again there is some evidence (not as much as for psychopathy) that some people have a genetic bais for pedophilia

Now, once you allow the genetic argument to accpet a more or less benign behaviour (such as homosexuality) then here's how else it could be used:
A man bashed his wife to death, but the society has to accept this because the wife provoked him and he responded just as dictated by his genes.
A child is raped by a pedophile, but that's all OK, because it was "in the genes" of the perpetrator.

-continued below-
Posted by thinkabit, Monday, 26 February 2018 11:11:28 AM
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-- continued from above --

Do you now see why it is such a terrible idea to use it? Don't use it! Use something else instead. It is easy to construct an argument for allowing homosexuality and attendant issues such as SSM without having to resort to the genetic argument. For example, an equality argument based on the premise that people are independent agents who have the right to live their own lives without interference from others and should be free to do whatever they want with others as long as it is consensual and doesn't hurt any other 3rd party.
Posted by thinkabit, Monday, 26 February 2018 11:12:04 AM
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No I won't be careful with the genetic argument, given it has the backing of credible peer reviewed medical science and the recent discoveries of world leading geneticist Alan Sanders and his highly credentialed team!

There are two now known and identified genes particular to homosexuals and probably three more and found near the lower end of the DNA double helix spiral! Quote, unquote.

And stop expecting others to do your research for you!

The fact that the resident, brainwashed from birth, Homophobes can't or won't even look at or accept the medically proven science based evidence, by no means dispells or disproves it!

And they can't! Because they and their spurious arguments that homosexuallity is a preferred and chosen lifestyle, doesn't have a credible medical science based leg to stand on!

Albeit, a minority of rebels with a cause, chose to live different hedonistic lifestyles, if they are so inclined?

All that proves is, accepted social conventions matter little to social exiles/social lepers!

If devout christians believe their God created us and in his own image? They cannot in all good christian conscience cast out or estrange those ever so slightly different, through no fault of their own!

A perfect God all powerful and everywhere present just doesn't make mistakes?

And for all we know has created these variations to test us/you? Or the resident homophobes, book burners and bigots? And if the cap fits?

If you won't look at the credible evidence? Why expect a respectful debate from me? Just keep trumpeting your patent bigotry from the rooftops and stand in final judgement, (as satan's servants) on your day of final judgement, to answer for the harm you've done, caused or initiated!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 26 February 2018 12:35:22 PM
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Forget about they dont hire poofs and lessoes.
I think the govenment should go even further and completely close down all church and faith based schools of brainwashing, indoctrination and propaganda.
Posted by mikk, Monday, 26 February 2018 12:35:25 PM
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'A child is raped by a pedophile, but that's all OK, because it was "in the genes" of the perpetrator.

The perpetrator is killed by the parents and that's OK because it's in the genes of the parents.

It's not that the genetic argument is invalid it's that it is never allowed to follow through, because someone always introduces a law to circumvent it
Posted by Special Delivery, Monday, 26 February 2018 12:35:54 PM
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Typical of the resident homophones to lump in psychopaths, male aggression and paedophiles, [many in the CHRISTIAN priesthood,] as having the same gene differentiation as non violent non child predatory gays; as if the same genes cause or create all of it!? AND THEY DON'T!

I just don't know what genetic variation if any, would allow, even an enebriated adult male to even consider,let alone, rape a two year old child, but london to a brick, none of them gay!

Given how far some are willing to stray from the facts, compelling evidence and proven medical science just to support a bigot's argument! End of story and respectful debate!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 26 February 2018 12:55:43 PM
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Alan B.: Look, everyone who's been here for any length of time knows what you're like with rational agruments. But just this once we will please try to understand and think a bit about the implications of what you're arguing.

I can't make the argument against your use of genetics as a defense for homosexuality any clearer than what I already said, but for your sake I'll repeat it and *hopefully* you will understand it this time.

YOUR argument amounts to saying that if a behaviour has some level of genetic basis then it must be OK. Now the probable with this is that many other generally accepted non-desirable behaviours also have genetic influences, eg: pyschopathy. So this means that YOU YOURSELF must condone these other behaviours by the same style of reasoning if you want others to accept this argument when applied to homosexual behaviour.

By-the-way: It should be obvious (at least to normal intelligence) that I'm not stating it is the same genes that cause both homosexuality and violence, psychopathy etc. It should be obvious, for example that in the case of male violence it would be different genes I'm talking about (since male violence across species is extremely common but homosexual proclivity is not that common). Nothing I've ever said should allow any normally intelligent person to draw the conclusion that I'm saying that it is the same alleles of some given set of genes that cause all these behaviours - although you have, but how your brain works(?) is a mystery to me.
Posted by thinkabit, Monday, 26 February 2018 3:40:47 PM
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//and probably three more and found near the lower end of the DNA double helix spiral!//

Sorry, what?

For starters, what sort of real biologist would feel it necessary to specify that DNA has a double helix structure when this is common knowledge? And what sort of idiot would call it a spiral when it's a helix?

Secondly, which particular chromosome? You realise we have more than one, right?

Thirdly, DNA does not have a 'lower' and 'upper' end. Discrete strands of DNA (e.g. chromosomes) necessarily have ends, and I can't for the life of me remember what the proper technical jargon is for them, but I know that 'lower' and 'upper' is about as meaningful to biologists as referring to them as 'charm' and 'strange'.

Fourthly, as far as I remember the limited amount of biology I've studied... a gene's locus has no bearing on it's functionality. I could be wrong on this one. Any biology nerds out there?

Finally, if you want to mount a scientific argument... it helps to have a clue what you're talking about.

//And stop expecting others to do your research for you!//

I wouldn't trust you to do my research in million years, mate. All your 'facts' are risible nonsense.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 26 February 2018 7:54:04 PM
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hmm, just re-read my last post and noticed slight typo:
"But just this once we will please try to understand and think a bit about the implications of what you're arguing." should be-
"But just this once will you please try to understand and think a bit about the implications of what you're arguing.

----

Toni Lavis: your point about a cell's DNA not being just one long thread but stored in multiple chromosomes I've pointed out to him before. Also I pointed out the fact that a strand of DNA doesn't have an up/down direction. (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=19376&page=0#344556)

But you know what he's like- there's little point trying to tell him anything factual that doesn't correspond with his pontifications. And he'll keep repeating/regurgitating what he's said over and over and over ad nauseam, regardless of being corrected many times previously.
Posted by thinkabit, Monday, 26 February 2018 9:06:20 PM
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//But you know what he's like- there's little point trying to tell him anything factual that doesn't correspond with his pontifications. And he'll keep repeating/regurgitating what he's said over and over and over ad nauseam, regardless of being corrected many times previously.//

Yep, it's a pretty clear-cut diagnosis of 'Runner's disease'. The constant repetition of previously debunked nonsense, combined with the vitriol and abuse directed at those who do the debunking, both clearly point in that direction.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 5:24:37 AM
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It is a fact of life that a significant portion of society hates religion with a vengeance. Some expressions of this can even be seen here, in the above posts. Those who do, would use any means they can to break the back of the religious and make them suffer in any possible way.

It is a pity that this discussion deteriorated to be about homosexuality, because homosexuality just happens to be used as a pretext to make the religious suffer.

Specifically, those who hate religion want to use "anti-discrimination" or whatever else they can get hold on, to sever the children of the religious from their parents and instead brainwash them with secularity - and for that, they want their own people to infiltrate religious schools.

It is not homosexuality that they wish to expose religious children to - it is sexuality in general they wish to tempt them with: their tactic is that by exposing children to the temptations of the flesh, to the anguish of their parents, they will become more interested in the world and forget about God. The problem with so-called "gay" people is not their attraction to and sexual-activity with their own gender, but rather that they consider the pleasures of the flesh as paramount. There are other homosexuals, even religious homosexuals, who do not belong to the gay movement and do not consider sexuality to be that important.

In my estimate, the underlying reason for this hatred, is that religion is viewed as a "fun killer" that especially chastises care-free promiscuity. Those who hate religion, essentially do not like to be reminded that there is something wrong with their attitude that prioritises fun as supreme.

I certainly do not agree with the religious trying to tell others how to live and how to educate their children, yet this is exactly how the anti-religious wish to harm the religious.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 10:51:17 PM
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