AJPhillips

AJP. Ug….We meet again.

Tw’d be appealing if people could criticise Gods and religion on OLO, without spitting all over the page!

Were/are you a RC: X-Catholics seem the most scornful; holding religion in complete contempt.

Why not, as an alternative, view Christianity from an Historical perspective, and create some meaningful and interesting dialog? I credit you with a brain.

Man and his Gods are securely entwined in history after all.

What do you mean by “ugh”, diver dan?

<<Ug….We meet again.>>

You’re the one who has just approached me. We’d been happily ignoring each other for months until now.

<<Tw’d be appealing if people could criticise Gods and religion on OLO, without spitting all over the page!>>

How did I “spit all over the page”?

<<Were/are you a RC: X-Catholics seem the most scornful; holding religion in complete contempt.>>

No, actually, I was a Protestant. Lutheran to be precise. Catholicism is heretical.

It’s funny, though. My observations have been the opposite to yours. In my experience, former-Protestants tend to become the more vocal atheists, while atheist Catholics (I won’t call them “former”, for a reason which is about to become apparent) seem to insist on retaining the “Catholic” label, even when they realise it’s all rubbish. It’s something I’ve never understood. Paul1405 here on OLO is the only exception to this that I can think of off the top of my head. Go to any atheist/sceptic meet-up and you will see very few Catholics, because the Catholic atheists are still attending mass and calling themselves Catholic.

<<Why not, as an alternative, view Christianity from an Historical perspective, and create some meaningful and interesting dialog?>>

Sure, if you have something in mind. My primary concern, however, has always been the truth of the claims, because that's ultimately what matters.

I’ve heard others (atheists included - usually right-wing, though) claim that the West could not have possibly flourished without Christianity, yet when I ask them how Christianity did this exactly, or what we have that could not have possibly arisen without Christianity, the bold and confident proclamations tend to peter off into muttering about correlations that don’t account for sociological or environmental factors.

AJ Philips. You said:

[I'm doing the best I can with the limited words we’re afforded. Rationing posts is a skill that someone like myself needs to acquire in order to defend one’s ideas on an overwhelmingly conservative forum]

I understand, and have acknowledged the same issue in a different conversation. I didn't realize that you were trying as well or if there was a different element going on. When I was trying to address as many points as I could, to the best degree that I can without neglecting information for points. I got a similar response from you. I did not explain it enough to overcome your counterpoint. My complaint and frustration is that you gave so little, even with your explanation now, but you ask for others to offer much more then you yourself provide.

It is easier to provide a counterpoint that offers doubt (you can do that in less then 2 sentences), then it is to give an explanation. Keep that in mind in your responses and don't ask for something you are reluctant to provide yourself. More time, words, and effort. Or at least offer some more time and effort so I (or anyone else) can see you ask no more then what you are willing to give as well.

Yes expand on the mixed bag. I will look into collecting what I have for archeological finds.

Is Mise, what is a OUG?

Tony Lavis.

[I suspect that may have deliberate. Apparently thou shalt bear false witness when it suits thee.]

You have given me this criticism before. You have also in a different discussion included one nickname or another to insult me with on every one of your posts directed to me. At what point are you accountable for your own actions? I haven't lied about you, nor deliberately missed your point. You never made that point until now.

If I am honest with you I have guessed your age to be between 17 and 20. Hopefully not younger because of your views on sex. Hopefully not older because of a lack of maturity. In that age, I know people are less exposed to the world and less likely to know that things aren't obvious if they are not said. The world does not think like you nor can read your mind. Neither can I. If you do not say your points, then you haven't made your points.

Diver Dan. Thank you for your insight for reaching people. With respect though, I might ignore your insight at this time. Two reasons. One is that I think just teaching the bible is a good thing, and isn't done enough. It clears up misconceptions and mis-quotes by studying from direct quotes. The second reason is that converting isn't something I'm good at, nor something I can take credit for. That's God's territory. But being a Christian should be a way of life, not just a belief for the sake of salvation. With that in mind I have one more element to add on the study of God's love for us.

Take heart and be encouraged by God's love for you. But be warned. God is a protective sort. Treat others fairly and with love. And expecially don't try to trip people up, or to corrupt those who are innocent. Be good to the sinner you see, and the child who is unencumbered by the corruption of the world.

Mathew 18:6-7

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!

Luke 17:1-4

Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. 2 It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3 So watch yourselves.

“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

One more thing. An explanation. These three posts regarding the love of God are of value to be a foundation to look at other teachings such as the laws of morality and the laws to love your neighbor, even your enemy. Because God loves them. The second reason I gave these teachings are because they have been on my mind in discussions with many of you. Having to remind myself that God loves each of you and to not let my frustrations with some of these conversations become a stumbling block for you to find God. I might not be what leads any of you to change your mind and accept God to be real and active in the world, but if I take my frustrations and act on them I can be a stumbling block for you from someone else trying to reach you.

Regardless if you believe in God or not though, please remember. You are always welcome at church. God loves you greatly. If you become Christian God will look after you as He would anyone else in His flock. Do not fear and do not worry. Even if you die or lose much, God has you. Try hard in life and trust in God. And remember that God is protective of those He loves. That includes everyone, so take advantage of no one and treat everyone fairly and with kindness or integrity. No matter who they are.