To your other points (that do everything to avoid taking a stance on abortion), I disagree that sex is just a fun activity between consenting adults. Why? Because I've seen it play out.

1). I've heard sex as a demand in relationships, apparently so common some assume they won't find a relationship without having sex demanded by the guy.

2). Sex adds strings to a relationship. An even more common occurance, people feel they love someone after having sex, then when the relationship doesn't prove they do love eachother it breaks off with nasty fireworks.

3). Sex has the potiential to start a family, and if done casually will leave the mom with all the responsibility after the man leaves, or worse kills the kid before he/she is born. (Is this what you would do?)

4). I've seen sex try to be used to manipulate the other person.

5). The hunger for sex from our entertainment industry endorsing it harms relations with unrealistic standards, and an unhealthy focus away from healthy attributes in a relationship.

...Good enough to move on? Talk about why you support abortion. Why is killing babies ok?

Not_Now.Soon

".... Why is killing babies ok?"

It's not OK, but it is often the only convenient option and certainly the least expensive, in monetary terms.
The whole argument would dwindle away if people simply accepted responsibility for killing them rather than beating around the bush with all sorts of theories as to why abortion is always justified.

Some American Indian tribes had a good system, the mother was allowed to kill her child up to 3 months (moons) of age.

Yes, Is Mise, but contraception is not 100% effective.

<<... the requirements against accidents are not at all unreasonable ...>>

The only 100% effective method of preventing pregnancy is total abstinence, and that is both unreasonable and unrealistic.

<<I've been engaged in the pastime for the last 68 years and never made a mistake yet.>>

And you’re Catholic, too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

<<Adults engaged in any sporting activity are responsible for their own mistakes and the outcomes thereof.>>

Sure, the but we didn’t all evolve to have an uncontrollable urge to play risky sports, so the sportsman is exercising more of a choice there (c.f. Your flouting of Catholic doctrine).

<<To say that the foetus has no right to the sustenance of the mother's body to sustain its own life is just a load of codswallop …>>

I’ve already said a few times now that the unborn human child has a right to life, it just doesn’t have the right to use the woman’s body to maintain that life without her permission. An individual’s bodily autonomy must necessarily always take precedence because of the costs of not respecting this right. This is why we wouldn’t force mothers (whom, it could also be argued, should have considered the possibilities before deciding to have children) to donate organs/tissue to their dying children.

This is the problem with the anti-abortionist stance: you can denounce abortion all you like, but at some point you need to come up with a viable alternative to it. No-one likes abortion, some of us are just able to separate what we do and don’t like from what can and can’t be done.

<<... the mother has a duty to safeguard the foetus until it can be safely born.>>

Not if it violates her bodily autonomy. To suggest otherwise is to make women slaves to their biology.

Bodily autonomy is fundamental to this issue. There is a very heavy burden that must be overcome before this right can be violated. Simply affording a foetus more rights than a child that has already been born doesn’t achieve this.

//You say you've addressed your points, but yet again avoid the topic of abortion.//

Abortion? What does that have do with anything? We're debating extra-marital sex. You started it with your 'only married people should have sex' claptrap, which I rebutted... and so on.

I hadn't mentioned abortion until my previous post, and only then to point out that you were telling porkies.

//the closest topic addressed for your support of abortion//

What support for abortion? I haven't taken a stance on abortion, ya lyin' wee shite.

//So no, I don't see that you've addressed any points for why you support abortion.//

I haven't expressed support or opposition to abortion. Isn't there some Commandment against bearing false witness?

//As far as I can tell your entire point in this conversation is to not take a stand//

No, I've taken a stand: it's just not the stand you want me to take so that you can dismiss me as some monstrous baby-killer. So sorry about that.

//I've heard sex as a demand in relationships, apparently so common some assume they won't find a relationship without having sex demanded by the guy.//

People can demand all they want: no still means no.

//Sex adds strings to a relationship.//

Nope, they're there to begin with. Don't you pay attention to physics? The universe is made of string.

Toni Lavis. Man up and take a stance on abortion or bugger off.

AJ Phillips. You say you've conceded that unborn babies have the right to life. That's a worthless concession if you then take back the only means for the baby to survive. It's in fact no concession at all. You compare holding on to a pregnancy to donating a kidney. One big difference between the two is that being pregnet for 9 months is temporary, and can only occure if you have sex. Donating a kidney is a permanent change, and is not replaced as time goes on, and requires a much longer recovery period after the surgery. Along the same lines of a permanent effect is the death of the baby because the mother killed it in abortion. No excuse would be made to kill the child after it was born, in fact just neglecting the child to the point of death or harm is enough to be charged with negligence, and be punished by the justice system.

Killing unborn babies after choosing to have sex holds no merit. It's tempory to be pregnet, holds no real permanent changes to the body after the child is born, and can even be offered up for adoption or even allowed into foster care like programs. Either way the child would be allowed to live. The right to live is a greater right then all other rights that we legally support. If they are not allowed to live and have that right defended then there are no other rights after that.

This is not more rights then a child already born. It's only one singular right. One worth protecting, expecially if the mother was not forced to have sex to begin with. The pregnancy is a result of their free choices. Killing due to that freedom should not be condoned.

Next time you concede a point. Really do concede to the point. saying you think the baby has a right to live, but then take away the only means of it's survival is not conceding anything and offers no justification.

Sorry about that, ran out of posts last night and couldn't be bothered staying up a couple more hours to post again. Now where was I?

//An even more common occurance, people feel they love someone after having sex//

Yeah, we have a special word for those people: halfwits.

//it breaks off with nasty fireworks.//

Wow, even fireworks? Man, you really don't like fun, do ya Cromwell?

//Sex has the potiential to start a family//

Not if you do it right.

And here's a tip: 69's can't produce issue.

//I've seen sex try to be used to manipulate the other person.//

I've seen money be used to manipulate people. Maybe we should ban it and go full communist? Hmmm, seems like a bit of drastic response for what amount to 1st world problems.

//The hunger for sex from our entertainment industry endorsing it//

I mostly watch/listen to BBC comedy shows. And whilst they do make jokes about sex and employ some frankly brilliant innuendo, they're not exactly selling sex. Here's an example: this an old favourite of mine, 'I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again'. See if you can spot the crude sexual reference in the song 'Ferrets of Old England'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00b02bc#play

//Talk about why you support abortion.//

Once again, I've never said I support abortion. This video should sum up my position on the matter fairly succinctly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

//bugger off.//

Shan't.