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The Forum > Article Comments > The Greens and the campaign for a woman’s right to choose > Comments

The Greens and the campaign for a woman’s right to choose : Comments

By Sylvia Hale, published 21/9/2017

Its defeat, when every member of the Liberal and National parties voted against it, ensured that NSW would continue to be out of step with modern medical practice and community opinion.

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its easy to see why the regressives murdering doctrine excuses the violence of Islam. They are cousins.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 8:33:59 AM
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Toni Lavis "And they're definitely not in favour of any of that sort of kinky business"

I gave you *my* opinion.
Don't generalise.
Non-reproductive sex not only prevents pregnancy but also STDs. I'm fine with that.

As for your Dr Crackhead, euthanasia is illegal too, but I don't hear horror stories in the news every day about "backyard" doctors doing that.

The number of doctors in prison would be negligible. Cry me a river.

AJ Philips, please tell us what the underlying social issues are and how they can be addressed.

Oh that's right, they *can't* be addressed, because life isn't fair and society is too complex and imperfect and ALWAYS WILL BE.

Blaming everyone but yourself is the New Black.
Posted by Shockadelic, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 8:41:15 AM
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Dear Not_Now.Soon,

Sin is when we aim in a direction other than God. Nothing more, nothing less. Sins can be gross and sins can be subtle, no amount of words can describe them all.

We are all born in sin as we identify with this human body of ours and to one degree or another aim to fulfil its "interests" rather than God's will.

There are reasons and logic why murder is a sin - it's not arbitrary:
having preference for "my" interests over another's is sinful because it negates our unity in God. Murder is but one expression of this misguided preference.

It is therefore true that if we believe, rightly or wrongly, that it is in another's interest to keep living in their current body, then killing them in one's own interest is sinful.

So what ARE the true interests of another?

Not their whims - their true interest.

I think we can agree that it's their spiritual development.

Yes, we come with inherent qualities, but we also need education.
Education does not start with schooling: it starts in the womb when the foetus listens to Mozart or hears her parents praying and reading scripture. Yes, great souls can overcome material poverty, but great souls are not born to situations of mis-education, such as hearing in the womb the junk that nowadays passes for "music" and their parents screaming at each other [1].

Dying is usually against one's interest because one loses all their good education and will need to re-learn it all to resume their journey towards God.

Education in animals hits a ceiling (~3 years of age in the case of chimpanzees). Still, grown-animals are more educated than unborn-humans. If one habitually kills them for food and also intends to feed their child on those animals, then killing their baby in the womb would be a lesser sin.

---

[1] You might think of Prahlad as an exception, being born to a monstrous father, but Prahlad was educated and learned to worship God by sage Narada himself, even at the womb, rather than by his father.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 8:56:46 AM
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AJ Phillips. You've mentioned that abstinence doesn't work. I never agreed to this. So when you say "we discussed this," you say it as if I agreed with you, or that your an authority on the matter. To not promote abstinence sounds like to me to give up on the problem entirely. As of now sex is something that is expected of way too early in a relationship. There's no waiting to even see if the relationship is serious. With this approach to quick love being backed by unrealistic stories in both movies and books, the message is to feel love then have sex. You don't see a problem with this message going unchallenged?

Change the culture and change everything. It would not be easy, but it would be so much better

It would be a two part approach. Giving the kids reasons to wait, and if they fail on that element, holding to the importance of life, so that abortion doesn't occure. Teens might not have a fully developed brain, but they are smart enough.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 11:24:58 PM
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//Don't generalise.//

Do as you say, not as you do, eh Shocka? If I had a dollar for every time I'd seen you generalising about lefties...

//Non-reproductive sex not only prevents pregnancy but also STDs.//

No, you can still get STDs from non-reproductive sex. Anal sex more so than oral, but I learnt a new fact today: you can get the Pox from oral (but it's very unlikely).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_transmitted_infection

//As for your Dr Crackhead, euthanasia is illegal too, but I don't hear horror stories in the news every day about "backyard" doctors doing that.//

No, people just cut out the middle man and kill themselves.

I daresay that if your modest proposal ever became reality, there'd be a few women having a crack at DIY abortion. Which would be good news for the manufacturers of wire coat-hangers, and bad news for just about everybody else. Tell me, will the emergency room doctors who have to try and repair the damage caused by these botched attempts be beholden to report them, or will confidentiality still apply?

//The number of doctors in prison would be negligible.//

Would they, though? Because anti-abortionists are always banging on about the 'epidemic' of abortions. How could you only have negligible numbers of doctors being prosecuted if when there are so many women seeking abortions? The maths doesn't work.

But let's assume that you're right, and that only a few doctors would be locked up: it's still a few doctors too many. What practical benefit do you see resulting from this policy? I see less doctors (bad), more prisoners (bad), and a whole lot of wasted taxpayer money (bad). This is typically the problem with the fantasies of anti-abortionists: very heavy on the ideology, couldn't give a toss about the practical. And ignoring practicalities always results in such great policy....
Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 28 September 2017 11:24:04 AM
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//To not promote abstinence sounds like to me to give up on the problem entirely.//

And speaking of favouring ideology over practicalities...

There's only one wee problem with your charmingly naive idea of canning effective sex education and just telling kids just to wait until their wedding night, Pillow Pants: it doesn't work.

We know it doesn't work because people in other parts of the have already tried it, so we can look at their results... and it didn't work. Every time the experiment is repeated, the results are replicated. What makes you think it would work if we tried? Are you counting on a miracle?

//As of now sex is something that is expected of way too early in a relationship.//

Yeah, I think that might be where you're going wrong, Pillow Pants. You shouldn't 'expect' sex: it's not something you're automatically entitled to just because you want it. You should just be grateful and joyous when it happens.

//With this approach to quick love being backed by unrealistic stories in both movies and books//

Have you considered the possibility that you might just be reading the wrong books and watching the wrong movies? I don't watch a lot of movies - the last one I saw was the new Mad Max movie. Not much in the way of romance there. Do you just only watch romcoms and Bond films or something? I'm really struggling to think of any movies I've seen in the last few years where a romantic sub-plot involved any sex.

And as for books? Well, it's even easier to find books without those sort of sub-plots. I've got a lot of books, and very few of them involve that sort of hanky-panky. Although whatever you do, don't read Phillip Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy. It will just upset you.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 28 September 2017 11:25:16 AM
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