Wow, lucky we have Aidan here.
Don Aitken struggled in 1500 words to try to put a objective explanation to what the term actually means.

But then Aidan enlightens us with "Fair Go For All", and there we are, problem solved. So if anyone is wondering just how much should be handed out in unemployment benefits, disability pension, age pension, housing benefits, to what degree should there be affirmation action in employment, university entrances, whether there should be set asides in parliamentary seats for special minorities, whether people from troubled childhoods should get special allowances in criminal sentencing, etc then all we simply do is refer to those words of wisdom, "Fair go for all" and the solution is before our eyes.

Time to get away from that ideology Diver Dan, it is just not true, & severely limiting for those who live by it.

Don mentions his lowly beginning, & many of us are very similar.

My father came out of WW11 with a cheap demob suit & 40 pounds. Not much class there.

I went to school from a dirt floor tin shed, while we slowly got not only the money together, but acquired the materials, still in short supply to build a rather poor house. This was nothing special, about half the people in our street, on the outskirts of Bathurst were doing the same. Many of the sheds were built out of flattened out 4 gallon kerosene tins, not just because it was cheap tin, but because getting real galvanised iron was like winning the lottery.

I used to have to pick the frogs out of our well water, so mum would not see them, or she wouldn't have drunk it. It took almost 3 years to get our first 1000 gallon rain water tank. We had "running water" by dint of me pumping it by hand, up to the 44 gallon drum on the roof.

That up bringing has made me careful with my money, the reason I am pretty comfortable now. No "cushy ride through life afforded by class and breeding" for me, or for most of those I know, just hard work, & not wasting everything we have earned.

I had very little in 1976 when I met my wife, but in 15 years we had 3 kids, & a nice debt free 30 acre farm, & a lot of fun getting there. It's not that hard if you don't mind a bit of work, & use your money wisely.

Dear Hasbeen,

The only problem with housing today is that government no longer allows you to build your own walls and roof as your family did, to make your own life.

You certainly grew up in better times!

Social justice means no justice.

There seems to be some confusion between 'social justice' and 'social equality': but the first is a function of a 'fair go', equal opportunity, and the second is a function of one of its companions, effort.

So the two, equal opportunity and equal effort, might bring us closer to 'equal outcome' or 'social equality', but there is no reason or compulsion for 'social justice' to have 'equal outcomes', if different people put in different amounts of effort.

It amazes me to see young people out of work (and whingeing about it) when there are backpackers doing so many of the unskilled and semi-skilled jobs like fruit-picking, doing them well and being paid well enough for it to continue travelling around Australia.

Of course luck and inheritance come into play. But I have no sympathy for any able-bodied person who refuses to do what work is available. Forty years ago, in the days of the CES, unemployment benefits automatically cut out once work was available in the area. Fair enough. Get out and see Australia, it's a character-building experience.

As an ex-Marxist, I always thought that the New Society would be one in which everybody contributed equally, it never occurred to me to be one in which everybody benefited equally without contributing. That sounded like aristocratic decadence to me.

I hope we will never have - nor, I expect, can we ever have - some crack-pot government system which endorses, or levies, 'equal outcome'. I worked for a bit on an Aboriginal community, where the Aboriginal farm manager (my brother-in-law) always found it hard to get enough workers, mainly for the morning shift in the new dairy: one of his worker-mates told me once, "You know, these fellas here think there's no difference between watching TV eight hours a day, and working eight hours a day." Spot-on. I eagerly look forward to the day when bludgers can tell the difference and are glad of it.

Joe

Hasbeen. I think you confuse social justice with social ambition; call it keeping up with the Joneses.

I think social justice is akin to a sinking boat. Women and children to the life boats. Society should operate with the same ethic.

What is worrisome is the propensity to denigrate welfare. It is the welfare system which should actually be praised. Welfare is the largest contributor to social justice, which is not the same as equality.

It is true, the welfare system as it stands needs a good shake out, but not the type of shake out currently underway as a cost cutting measure.

Hasbeen...if your so well off now, maybe you should be magnanimous and return your pension to the Government, and assist them to right the wrongs of social injustice by giving money to the poor through the welfare system...

Hi Dan,

"Hasbeen...if your so well off now, maybe you should be magnanimous and return your pension to the Government, and assist them to right the wrongs of social injustice by giving money to the poor through the welfare system."

Yeah, right. Work all your life and contribute your pension to those who won't ? Not bloody likely.

Joe