The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > It shouldn’t be Australia’s job to liberalise Muslims > Comments

It shouldn’t be Australia’s job to liberalise Muslims : Comments

By Gary Johns, published 26/4/2017

The struggle over the soul of Islam in Australia is taking place in the mosques, in the universities and in public life.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. Page 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. 9
  11. All
Dear Armchair Critic,

Australian policy-makers should be concerned enough to
ensure that ethnic enclaves are not created, as has
happened in countries such as Germany and Britain.

What we want is the creation of an Australia that is
inclusive enough so that people do not feel they have
to hold on to those enmities from the past, because they
feel that there is a different way here.
The more we tag people to being specific to an ethnic
group the more we force them almost to galvanise that as
an ethnicity.

Jeff Kennett pointed out that migrants in this country take
less time to feel at home in Australia than those who migrate
to European countries. But there are still challenges in
Australia, with research showing some second generation
migrants still feeling disconnected and not identifying
themselves as Australian. Mainstream Australian culture
can sometimes impose labels on certain communities and this
can encourage people into identifying themselves other than
Australian and take on past ethnic conflicts.

As stated earlier what we want is the creation of an
Australia that is inclusive enough so that people do not feel
they have to hold on to those enmities from the past, because
they feel that there is a different way here.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/multicultural-australia-a-work-in-progress-20151030-gkn5vz.html
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 27 April 2017 2:39:35 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi AC,

That's probably hat I was getting at in trying to differentiate 'exclusivist' multiculturalism, and 'inclusive' multiculturalism.

One fosters separation, assumes incommensurability and eventually provokes ghettoes. In the name of 'culture' it promotes mini-societies.

The other fosters inclusion, reconciliation of values, interaction and eventually inter-marriage. Implicitly it promotes a shared society and a shared future. Maybe that goal of reconciliation needs to be more explicit.

What do you reckon ?

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 27 April 2017 3:56:35 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
"The struggle over the soul of Islam in Australia is taking place in the mosques, in the universities and in public life."

It's also taking place at Aussies dinner tables.
They brought the problem.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 28 April 2017 5:50:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The premise of Gary John's article is wrong. The Western experience with Christianity cannot be used as a template for Islam and Muslims.Its traditional foundations are sound and should not be conflated with the re-form movement known as Wahabbism. Actually its a beautiful religion.

Support for this is given by now retired Historian Dr. Richard Bulliet:

QUOTE
Even though many rulers behaved badly, in other words, Islamic law was generally successful in its claims to being the touchstone of proper governance. Post-Reformation Christendom had no parallel. More and more scholarly studies based on the records of Islamic courts show that Islamic law was perceived of and functioned as the law of the land for Muslims and non-Muslims alike, and was administered in a comparatively equitable fashion. For example, in cases where Muslims sued Christians and vice versa, the documents we have reveal no pattern of religious bias. At the level of social order, then, the Islamic legal system actually did provide the framework of an orderly, nonanarchic society, and the basis for a general belief that religious law could protect a population against the misbehavior of rulers.

cont...
Posted by grateful, Friday, 28 April 2017 9:41:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
cont..

Not surprisingly, some rulers thought poorly of the system because, being rulers, they held despotic aspirations. For rulers such as these, the theoretical path to increasing their absolutism lay in eliminating Islamic legal oversight. In the course of the 19th century, this desire to escape the restraints of Islamic law provided an unspoken rationale for the so-called modernizing or Westernizing changes that were instituted from the top down in Egypt, the Ottoman Empire, and later in Iran. Modernizing rulers sought to push Islam, and particularly the religious scholars who defined Islamic law, to the margins of public life. They replaced Islamic law with law codes borrowed from Europe, they replaced religious school systems with those based on European principles and curricula, and they became as much as possible like the European states of the time. And they did all this with the encouragement of European powers, who, having seen Islam as a threat to Christianity for centuries, were perfectly happy to see the intellectual guardians of the Islamic religious tradition degraded and minimized in influence.”
END QUOTE

Source: Richard Bulliet: Religion and the State in Islam: From Medieval Caliphate to the Muslim Brotherhood http://www.du.edu/korbel/middleeast/media/documents/BullietPaperFinal.pdf

Also see:
"Understanding Muslim Countries: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D664YCeS1Hc

Both lectures are based on papers that can be found online.
Posted by grateful, Friday, 28 April 2017 9:42:19 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
1957 vs. 2017...this is what we've gotten to.

Scenario 1:
Robbie, a year 5/6 won't sit still in class and is disrupting other students.

1957-Robbie is sent to off to the school office and is given ‘6 of the best’ by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2017-Robbie is given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie.  Tested for ADHD, undergoes therapy and the school gets extra money from state government because Robbie has a “disability”.

A special rubber lined “quiet room” is installed at the school and kids who need basic supplies are denied because of the cost of this.

Scenario 2:
Faisal fails year 10 English.

1957-Faisal’s mum & dad work their holidays to get him extra tuition over the school break. He repeats year 10 and graduates 3 years later as Dux of the high school. 4 years later he enters his articles of clerkship as a solicitor with a prestigious Sydney law firm.

2017-Faisal's cause is taken up by an ethnic rights group. Q & A does a segment. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is discriminatory.

Rights group files a class action lawsuit against state school system and Faisal's English teacher. English is banned from school’s core curriculum. His English teacher never teaches again.

Faisal is given a school leaving certificate anyway & gives up studies altogether. Ends up in a factory in Auburn sweeping floors for a living, because he cannot speak English.

Scenario 3:
Johnny takes apart some leftover firecrackers from Territory Day celebrations and puts them in a model air-plane, blowing up a bull ant’s nest.

1957-Ants die.

2017-TRG, Federal Police & Anti-Terror Squad called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, AFP and ASIO investigate parents, Johnny’s siblings are removed from their home by DOCS, & computers confiscated. Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Monday, 1 May 2017 11:44:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. Page 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. 9
  11. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy