Nailed it yet again Alon, and the nightmare scenario turned into something unthinkable by an unholy alliance between Iran, Turkey and Russia?

Each anything but a democracy with a moderating free press etc! And will Putin man in washington be the insurance Netanyahu is banking on? Alan B.

To deal with the Palestinians of the West Bank if they cause any trouble while Israel is at war, Israel only needs to deploy its military brass-band against them. Further, a peace deal would not be of any help in the military sense because the "Palestinians" would never respect it anyway.

Israel's problems are moral and internal, not military.

Israel is not interested in peace, let's get that straight. A good look at their short history shows this.

Israel is more of a dictatorship than a 'democracy'. This means the folk live in fear.

Israel is hopelessly divided from within, along, class, ethnic and sectarian-religious lines. 'Community' is a foreign word in Israeli reality. The Jewish state lives a nightmare inside its borders.

Israel has one of the most over valued currencies of all, this means their utter dependence on the economic band-aids of other countries, is a debilitating feature of everyday life. Exports are crippled.

I have nothing against these folk, but a steady look, at what's going on, within and, in the near neighbourhood, of Israel, is indeed a nightmare or worse.

Israel's enemies want Israel wiped out completely. Talking about peace in the Middle East is downright stupid. There will never be peace as long as Islam exists.

if people are to blind to see that the fig tree is now blossoming after numerous attempts to wipe them out throughout history they will continue this failed 2 state 'solution' dogma. Anyone who is interested in truth knows that the muslims holy place is mecca but now they claim Jerusalem where Solomons temple was built (just for those who refuse to see history for more than a few decades). Read the end of the book. Israel can't and won't lose. After much bloodshed Islam will know longer worship the moon god.

Runner, the state of Israel is built on sand. It's reason for existence is built on the myth that the Jews are God's chosen people. Sooner or later the rest of the world is going to wake up to this. If the Iranians want to destroy Israel, then I say, "More power to their elbow", because if they do it will show the Christians of the world that the state of Israel was just a big con.

David

VK3AUU

'Runner, the state of Israel is built on sand. It's reason for existence is built on the myth that the Jews are God's chosen people.'

ignorance of history of the highest order.

Dear Fool,

Since you admit that "Israel is hopelessly divided from within", you cannot also claim that "Israel is not interested in peace" - some Israelis do, others don't.

«Israel has one of the most over valued currencies of all, this means their utter dependence...»

The Israeli currency has been especially strong in the last couple of months since pumping began of natural gas from Israel's territorial waters in the Mediterranean sea where large reserves were found. This is similar to Australia's position during the mining-boom, yet despite the high Israeli Shekel, Israel is a technology giant and continues to export hi-tech products: this week Intel bought an Israeli hi-tech company (Mobileye, producing driving-safety-enhancement products) for about US$15-Billion.

---

Dear David,

You need to differentiate between slogans and reality as well as between "Jews" and "Israel": Israel is not built on the myth that "Jews are God's chosen people" any more than, say, claiming that "Australia's culture is based on Ned Kelly's example".

Even from a purely biblical point of view, the Jews' keeping their land is conditional on their observance of the biblical commandments (which, probably to your delight, is pretty low at present) and God's eventual forgiveness of their former trespasses - having provided no specific dates (other than "at the end of days"). The fact that a secular entity called "the state of Israel" exists and flourishes proves nothing about God's forgiveness or otherwise towards the Jews. In fact, about 25% of Israel's population are not even Jewish.

Israel will probably survive even better without such Messianic ideas (as if God has already redeemed the Jews and given them back their land), but it's sad to hear that you are happy for all its citizens (including my family) to die as collateral damage, just so you can prove some rhetoric point to Christians.

What an idiotic thing to say, Alon Ben-Meir.

You can't negotiate with people who demand your complete extermination. I'll bet you don't get invited to any bar mitzvas. I have always found it strange how a person can become a traitor to their own people. I know it has become a fashion statement among left wing North European Protestants, but what is your excuse?

Oh noes, Israel will have to fight on multiple fronts...however will they cope?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

This is just another in a long line of false assertions. First postulate a disasterous scenario and the assert that there's only one way to advert said disaster, which, surprisingly, is the author's preferred outcome no matter what the issue.

If you think that creating an enemy state on your borders is a solution to fighting on multiple fronts, then I have this bridge I'm selling which I'd like to discuss with you.....

Will Israel have to eventually fight Iran and its proxies? Maybe but not certainly. There's every chance that Iran's current sponser, Russia, will convince it to hold back. And if fighting did ensue, there's every chance that Israel would find surprising allies in the Sunni block who are terrified of a more powerful Iran.

Even if the author is right that, sans a two-state solution, war will ensue, Israel has other options. Maybe it'd make sense to take out Hezbullah and Hamas now while Iran can't help.

I'm sure the author would go along with that, right? You know, to save Israel. </sarc off>.

Is Israel supporting Islamic State?
Sure looks like it to me.

I heard a story yesterday that Assad's forces shot down a F16.
This morning I came across a news article which said the incident happened near Palmyra.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/syria-fires-missiles-at-israeli-warplanes-20170318-gv128i.html?

The problem with this is that the only forces near Palmyra are the Syrian Arab Army and Islamic State, see for yourselves.

http://syria.liveuamap.com/

This adds to the fact they have provided medical care to at least 2700 rebel fighters since the war began.

Oh almost forgot, they were also buying stolen Syrian oil pumped by Islamic State, trucked on to Turkey and sold to Bilal Erdogan.

The notions that "Jews are God's chosen people" and the "the land was given to them by God" comes from a book written by Jews about Jews.

It's as relevant (legally and historically) as Goldilocks finding that the baby bear's porridge was "not too hot, not too cold but just right".

It's also as likely that Jesus will return when the Jews re-occupy "their land" and bring about the end of the world, no matter how hard many crazed and deluded evangelicals keep hopefully working toward that end.

Here we go again, Iranian scaremongering and poor, poor Israel.

Nobody is going to launch any form of conventional attack on Israel. Israel has a dirty great big deterrent, NUCLEAR WEAPONS. If by some unimaginable reason they did not use these weapons and they appeared to be heading for defeat, the USA, as they have done before, will make their best weapon systems available to Israel to avert a defeat.

Soviet Union vs USA, UK vs France, Saudi vs Iran, just two powers jockeying for influence. It also fits a religious battle a la Protestant & Catholic.

Whilst it's in Iran's perceived interest for Hezbollah and Hamas to disrupt Israel continually, it's in Israel's perceived interest for the Iraq / Syria destabilization to continue. The great irony of Hamas is that it received a lot of Israeli support to establish itself as an alternative to the well supported secular Fatah.

Dear Rache,

«The notions that "Jews are God's chosen people" and the "the land was given to them by God" comes from a book written by Jews about Jews.»

Is it then the British who are God's chosen people?
Was Australia given to them by God?

If you criticise other people for not being chosen or granted their land by God, then why not start from home, from your own people who hoard for themselves the whole of one of God's continents, 370 times bigger than Israel!?

http://english.almanar.com.lb/215037

"The Israeli analyst said that the exceptional event in Thursday’s clash was that the Syrian radars discovered the Israeli jets as they were flying over the Syrian airspace, noting that one of the missiles which hit the Jordanian territories also embarrassed the Israeli army forcing it to confirm the clash."

http://english.almanar.com.lb/214894

“Four Israeli planes penetrated our air space at 2:40 am (0040 GMT) via Lebanese territory and hit a military target on the way to Palmyra,” the army said in a statement carried by state news agency SANA.

[I'm assuming it was the Tiyas Airbase.]

“Our air defense engaged them and shot down one warplane over occupied territory, hit another one and forced the rest to flee,” it added.
“This flagrant attack is part of the Zionist enemy’s persistent efforts to support the terrorist gangs of Daesh,” the Syrian army said, using an Arabic acronym for the ISIL Takfiri group.

http://english.almanar.com.lb/216240

Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman on Sunday threatened to ‘destroy’ Syrian air defense systems after they fired ground-to-air missiles at Israeli warplanes carrying out strikes.
“The next time the Syrians use their air defense systems against our planes we will destroy them without the slightest hesitation,” Lieberman said on Israeli public radio.

Dear Critic,

One might perhaps expect that news like this would not appear on the Israeli media (indeed it doesn't, not even a hint, not even in the Israeli Haaretz paper which is known for resisting the occupation and criticising the government), but since it's supposed to involve Jordan, surely stories like this should appear as one of the top news items in Jordan, right?

Well it doesn't. The main item on Jordan's news today is about someone being arrested for graffiti, drawing the Israeli flag... http://www.albawaba.com/loop/not-their-kind-street-art-jordanian-police-detain-man-drawing-israeli-flag-irbid-road-951866

You are welcome to try and look for this news on Jordanian news sites, rather than on Hezbollah propaganda sites, total liars which describe themselves as follows:

"Launched in 2000, Al-Manar Website was a main tool in keeping up with the victories of the Lebanese Resistance of Hezbollah and the Zionist entity’s crimes before and during its withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000 and its brutal war on the country in July 2006, especially in countries where Al-Manar frequencies are blocked or unreachable.

Al-Manar Website showed a model of media steadfastness in facing the Zionist terrorism and was the alternative interface during the numerous emerging challenges Al-Manar Channel faced, including France’s resolution to block its broadcast, the US resolution to blacklist it, and the Zionist war crime by bombing its headquarters in July 2006 war."

.....Dear Critic,

One might perhaps expect that news like this would not appear on the Israeli media (indeed it doesn't, not even a hint......

Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 20 March 2017 12:16:01 AM.....

The Times of Israel must be a fake news media then. Or is it an alternative media in an alternative Israel?

OK, I was not aware of the "Times of Israel", but it clearly states what the Israeli jets were doing there and that none were hurt. Other Israeli papers write that no Israeli plane was even coming close to being in danger.

Below are some excerpts from the "Times of Israel":

-+-+-+-
Israeli fighter jets hit several targets in Syria on Friday, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying the strikes targeted weapons bound for the Hezbollah terror group in Lebanon.

Syria’s military claimed it downed one of the Israeli planes and hit another as they were carrying out the predawn strikes near the famed desert city of Palmyra that it recaptured from jihadists this month.

The IDF denied that any of its planes were hit. The Syrian government has made similar claims in the past.

An Israeli army statement said “several anti-aircraft missiles” were fired following the raid but that none hit their targets.

The anti-aircraft missiles were fired from eastern Syria by Bashar Assad’s military, traveling over Jordan and toward the Jerusalem area. They were apparently SA-5 surface-to-air missiles (SAMs).

One missile was intercepted by Israel’s Arrow missile defense battery, military officials said, in the first reported use of the advanced system.

It was the most serious incident between the two countries since the Syrian civil war began six years ago.

In April 2016, Netanyahu admitted for the first time that Israel had attacked dozens of convoys transporting weapons in Syria destined for Hezbollah, which fought a 2006 war with Israel and is now battling alongside the Damascus regime.

Israel does not usually confirm or deny individual raids, but it may have been led to do so this time by the circumstances of the incident.

-+-+-+-

While there are many other Israeli policies which I do not support, since the Hezbollah terrorist organisation is amassing missiles from Iran in order to shoot them at my family, I fully support the efforts of the Israeli air-force to intercept those missiles so that fewer of them will be rained on my family in the next war.

Yuyutzu, your logic is impeccable, however no one claims that our culture come from Ned Kelly or that we owe God anything for our existence, because in fact, there is no God. If there was, would he be letting the world which you claim that he created, fall into the travail that through the ages and also currently has been our lot. Wake up to reality.
I am sorry for your relatives. My advice would be to get out while there is still time.
David

Hey Yuyutsu,
There's also mention of the incident in a Haaretz article.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.778218

No matter where my concerns and finger pointing goes in regards to the Syrian mess, please understand I don't want to see any innocent bystanders harmed.
The sooner peace unsues the better; but the long term strategies and motives of the lead players still seem to be Assad's removal, so I guess it will continue for the time being.

Thanks for the background info on Al Manar, though I wouldn't necessarily jump automatically to the conclusion they're 'fake news'; though I accept your argument that sometimes they might be.
From my point of view it could simply be that they report on news or a side of the conflict that Israel doesn't want reported.

Dear David,

In wars, it is common to use words as weapons, trying to demoralise the enemy. Just as Hezbollah might claim that they brought down an Israeli jet and drove away the rest, Israel could claim that God is fighting for them. Very few on either side actually believe their own claims. Had Netanyahu actually believed that the land belongs to Israel due to God's decree, I could counter him with serious theological counter-claims, but this does not seem necessary since he doesn't.

BTW, I do not claim, as you suggest, that God created the world: that's an Abrahamic concept which I do not share - while a Creator/Created duality has value as a good devotional tool, if used out of context as an attempt to describe nature, it necessarily leads to logical contradictions.

«I am sorry for your relatives. My advice would be to get out while there is still time.»

Are you still in Australia? with all those horrendous bushfires? You know, they constantly get worse - global warming and all that, so shouldn't you leave quickly before you are engulfed in the flames?

---

Dear Critic,

Thanks for your compassion.

Israel never denied that it has for many years been bombing convoys of sophisticated weapons passing through and all across Syria from Iran to its Hezbollah franchise. Understandably it prefers the tactical details to remain in the dark. Syrians who assist those convoys are fair-game too and it has nothing to do with the struggle against Daesh. Had an Israeli plane indeed been downed (which is practically impossible given Israel's defence systems that are the most advanced in the world), Israel would have been in resounding mourning while eulogies and details of the funeral(s) would have been published everywhere.

The war between Iran and Israel is unrelated to the Palestinian question (think Iran would care about these Sunnies?). It is happening because Iran would never forgive Israel for historically supporting the Shah. I can't see how peace is possible under the circumstances, with or without Assad, not even if Israel and the Palestinians became best buddies.

Yuyutsu

It is happening because Iran would never forgive Israel for historically supporting the Shah.

I love the way you rewrite the history. So Israel's role in the Lebanese civil war had nothing to do with the rise of Hezbollah. Hezbollah being Shia, naturally accepted anything Iran sent their way, just as the Christian militias accepted anything Israel sent their way. Especially given the destruction caused by Israel as it fought the PLO in Lebanon.

Yuyutsu

not even if Israel and the Palestinians became best buddies.

For that to happen either East Jerusalem becomes the capital of Palestine or Jerusalem is declared an open city. The West Bank and Gaza would be completely liberated and free movement would be allowed. So what excuse would Iran have to fight Israel.

Dear Anti,

First, I am more than happy for East Jerusalem to become the capital of Palestine, regardless whether or not this leads to peace between Israel and the so-called "Palestinians". I believe that so is the Israeli author of this article, but sadly Israel doesn't listen to us and to our advice which is for its own good.

While Israel already withdrew from Gaza and while I would like it to withdraw from the whole of the West Bank as well, it would not be appropriate to label this as "liberation". I would indeed like to see the ordinary local people of the West Bank and Gaza liberated, especially the people of Gaza who suffer under a terrible Islamic regime. Despite many aspects of Israel's bad behaviour toward the locals which I do not approve of, those ordinary people never had a relatively better time than under the Israeli regime because their own leaders are even worse.

«So Israel's role in the Lebanese civil war had nothing to do with the rise of Hezbollah.»

Initially, the Shiites of Lebanon were mostly pro-Israel, standing together with the Christians against the Sunni Palestinians. They were subsequently radicalised by the Iranian revolution. Anyway, without Iran they couldn't have become such a significant force.

«So what excuse would Iran have to fight Israel.»

Where's the need for an excuse? Is the truth not enough?

Israel was the Shah's best friend - it armed him, conducted nuclear tests together and supported his regime to the end. So long as Israel exists, Iran has reason to fear that Israel will work to destabilise its Ayatollah regime. If for some reason, however, Iran feels uncomfortable to tell this truth, then they could easily find another excuse... what, say, about the simple fact that Israelis are infidel Jews who should not be living in the holy land?

Yuyutsu

I responded to your imagined scenario that Israel and Palestines became best buddies.

Your disingenuous follow-up spoke volumes.

The Palestinians became "so-called Palestinians". The Israeli occupation, (longer than the occupation of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union), is now a lesser of two evils.

Israel is at war with the Palestinians. Like any war it will not be over until the peace is settled. Israeli troops may not occupy Gaza but they control its land borders and enforce restrictions on what enters Gaza. Israel's navy occupies Gaza's territorial waters and not only enforces similar restrictions to the land borders, it enforces a 3 kilometre limit on Gaza's fishing fleet. The Israeli air force occupies Gaza's air space. The humanitarian crisis in Gaza has as much to do with Israel as it does Hamas. That's the Hamas that Israel was only too willing to facilitate initially in the hope it would suck support from Fatah. Israel are reaping what they helped sow.

If Israel and Palestine became best buddies, it's only logical to assume there would either be no Hamas or Hamas would no longer call for the destruction of Israel. That both sides would be working to rebuild Gaza and all materials necessary to accomplish that would flow freely across the border. Such brotherly co-operation would exclude not only an Iranian attack on Israel's eastern flank but also remove any welcoming of belligerent interference in Palestine's affairs. The only fighting that may conceivably take place between Iran and Israel in this scenario, would be Iranian self-defence from Israeli attacks, as you say, working to destabilise the Iranian government

Yuyutsu

In regards to your response about Hezbollah. A secular PLO now becomes Sunni Palestians. You would have us believe that what becomes the largest single community in Lebanon, is so forlorn that it has to wait for the Iranian Revolution before addressing its poor socio-economic condition. If the Sunni Palestinians were so wicked towards the Lebanese Shia population why did the Shia not join the Christians when Israel twice invaded Lebanon to attack the PLO? Why do the Lebanese Shia spare the Palestinian Sunni, when by all accounts the Iraqi Shia with Iranian backing are taking revenge on the Iraqi Sunni? We both know why? The "benevolent Israeli interventions" in south Lebanon was far more catastrophic than anything experienced under the PLO. Just as people have a right to self-determination, they have a right to self-defence too. Without Iran, the Shia would be nothing more than an oppressed people under the boot of a proxy Israeli Christian force.

Dear Anti,

No doubt, Israel has made mistakes and is paying for them.
None of us was responsible for those mistakes and none of us can reverse them.

«The Israeli occupation (...) is now a lesser of two evils.»

For ordinary Palestinians, yes, but not for ordinary Israelis, for whom it's the greater evil.
Since I care more about ordinary Israelis, I would like to see Israel leave the remaining occupied territories ASAP, with or without a peace agreement.

Gaza is different predominantly because the number of Israeli lunatics who are interested in occupying Gaza is insignificant and far smaller than those lunatics who are interested in occupying the West Bank or parts thereof. Of course I would like to see Gaza rebuilt, but would the Hamas agree? Israel currently controls Gaza's borders and sadly needs to continue doing so lest Gaza receives advanced weapons from Iran (like the Hezbollah) or uses the concrete that is meant for housing, instead for building attack-tunnels. Can you offer any other rational solution for Israel?

As for Iran, I disagree that anything that happens between Israel and the Palestinians could affect her. They have vowed to destroy the Shah's best supporters and wouldn't mind in the least if another few million Sunnis were killed in the process.

One hand says you want peace, the other says you fear peace.

What you have at the moment is a Soviet peace. A peace that occupies and oppresses. A peace that grabs territory. A peace that will shatter the moment the oppressed feel they have a chance to retaliate. Do you have the courage for a Western peace? A peace that helps the vanquished rebuild.

Take Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran out of the conversation. The fear is palpable every time you mention them. A fear that gives your hawks the excuse to continue the oppression. You have the military high ground. Peace requires that your morality matches your military. Show the world, but more importantly show the Palestinians that you want real peace.

Leave your weapons at the door and negotiate a comprehensive treaty with Abbas; no underhand land grabs, no quasi militia occupations, no economic nooses. If you want the Palestinians to trust you, you have to trust them. The treaty is the start of the process, not the end of it.

You both build the trust in steps. Implementation can begin immediately on the West Bank and in Jerusalem. It is these areas where peace has the greatest chance of success. Inevitably there will be teething problems and extremists from both sides will do whatever they can to smash the trust. Processes need to be in place to ensure trust testing events do not wreck the peace implementation. Demonstrate that you can live side by side in peace, (that's why the concept of open Jerusalem has merit).

Now you are ready for Gaza and Hamas. Let Abbas take the lead. Let Europe provide a UN peace keeping force if Hamas appear to lack a firm commitment to the negotiated peace.

As for Hezbollah, if you leave millions of stateless Palestinians in Lebanon, you leave a ticking bomb. They need to be part of the agreement. They need a place to call home.

Only Israel can grant peace and as a democracy, only the Israelis can choose the government to grant it

Dear Anti,

What you wrote is very sensible. Sadly it is not up to me, nor does my family in Israel have the numbers to make a difference.