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The Forum > Article Comments > Keep the lights on if you want to stay, Malcolm Turnbull > Comments

Keep the lights on if you want to stay, Malcolm Turnbull : Comments

By Gary Johns, published 2/2/2017

Once the old plants are retired or electricity demand increases sufficiently, Australia will need investment in coal-fired power.

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"Retireing coal-fired power stations". What suicidal lunacy!

"Decarbonising"? Try asking the big-spenders-of-our-money and the smashers-of-our-energy-security-and-economy just what difference the massive cost and angst being forced on us will make to the climate. You will not get an answer because no bloody difference will be made. But still, our idiot of a Prime Minister continues to lick the backsides of international fraudsters and provide them with our money.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 2 February 2017 8:35:23 AM
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This completely changes the equation
1) remove the legal prohibition on nuclear
2) put some kind of constraint on CO2
3) discontinue expensive quotas and subsidies for wind and solar.
Hazelwood is supposed to close in a few weeks taking with it I believe 10-12 Twh a year which was very handy in heatwaves, frosty nights and hydro droughts. In 2022 Liddell is supposed to close taking away more energy. Gas is now too expensive for baseload.

Supercritical coal might reduce emissions 20% compared to subcritical but if you think (as I do) we must drastically cut then it's not worth the bother. Carbon capture and storage CCS struggles to get past the demo stage at numerous locations world wide. For a similar price and construction time we could get nuclear which has near zero emissions. There would also be plenty of new jobs in mining and fuel reprocessing and we'd meet our emissions promises.
Posted by Taswegian, Thursday, 2 February 2017 8:57:15 AM
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Here is an idea all the future fund is put into renewables with no subsidies and when the money runs out the Public Service pensions stop. I am including all political pensions in this of course. Sorted!
Posted by JBowyer, Thursday, 2 February 2017 9:21:37 AM
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And here is how it will work TTBN

It's all about the Chinese. The Chinese have captured the market of cheap LNG with the able assistance of the ruling political elite.
Coal is next on their radar. By the time the existing power stations close, (under false pretences), guess who waits in the winds to build new technology coal powered stations? And further guess who has monopolised our abundant coal reserves?
This is all about China making squillions from idiots!
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 2 February 2017 10:07:10 AM
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Risible rubbish Gary! Aren't you able to envisage anything but your coal or the greens renewables?

By the way, what's your theory behind record breaking temperatures? A hotter sun perhaps? Sorry, the sun has been in a waning phase since the mid seventies, (NASA) and in the ordinary course of events should have ushered in a mini ice age!

Perhaps the recently discovered ninth planet (huge) has combined with that other colossus, Jupiter to alter our orbit round the sun? Pulling us closer?

Well that would explain the heat, just not the increasingly severe northern winters, and just what you'd expect if global warming was real and speeding up global convection, with subsequent increased atmospheric mixing with much cooler stratospheric air and allowed to drop with the change of seasons!

Just like a hot air balloon drops when its contents cool! The balloon in this case being the atmosphere. The dropping occurring more rapidly in the cooler hemisphere. Understand?

Now, simply put, there are safer, cheaper, cleaner options than coal and that includes thorium or methane used exclusively in household/business premise ceramic fuel cells, where the exhaust product is mostly water vapor! And the energy coefficient, a world beating 80%!

The green renewables still unable to compete with either thorium or methane fired fuel cell, without massive subsidies!

That said it's very hard to see anything able to compete, with tried and tested and not found wanting, walk away safe, molten thorium reactors. Not on cost or inherent safety!

If you read my post from yesterday, you'll see where I've outlined a feasible idea for zero emission coal. Not without considerable investment, which results in considerable returns, that can continue long after the power station is decommissioned!

And if done as outlined and as exclusive localized power, able to compete subsidy free, with 2-3 cents PKH thorium?

Thorium being the most energy dense material on the planet and abundant! There's enough in our topsoil to power the planet for a thousand years, and thousands more if we mine igneous rock!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 2 February 2017 10:36:24 AM
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Never mind about keeping the lights on or any other bulls#it about coal, we have a way bigger energy and economic problem barreling down on us!

Here is the short reason: http://www.resilience.org/stories/2017-01-31/end-of-the-oilocene-the-demise-of-the-global-oil-industry-and-of-the-global-economic-system-as-we-know-it/

And here is the scientific version of the evidence: http://www.thehillsgroup.org/petrohgv2.pdf

Oil is everything, without it we are buggered, forget the coal problem and focus on this more important predicament if you dare.

Geoff
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Thursday, 2 February 2017 1:50:47 PM
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