AlanB. I think you need to have a wider look at the Thorium situation. In theory it sounds easy. Just start off with some thorium, add a bit of U233 to produce some neutrons which, after a couple of radioactive decay steps produces some more U233 and so off we go. Unfortunately in the real world it isn't that easy. The reactants are there as a molten fluoride salt which needs some sort of a containment vessel and the the list goes on. Over the past 50 years or thereabouts the US and others have spent a very considerable amount of money trying to produce something practical and all but India has given up.

David

Upthread I suggested gas backed windpower was unlikely to get below 300 grams of CO2 per average kilowatt hour when we'd like 50 grams. As an afterthought I suggest it will cost over $90 per Mwh more than double the current wholesale price held down by the dominance of coal. If you look at the AEMO home page you see spot electricty prices by state currently range from $16 to $45 per Mwh. Gas prices range from $7 to $10 per gigajoule.

The retail price of wind power includes the NEM traded price, GST, transmission charges, retail margins and about $90 per Mwh LGC subsidy. Unless the NEM price is negative windpower will always cost more than $90 per Mwh retail. At 40% heat to electricity conversion efficiency the fuel cost alone (no wages or depreciation) of gas fired electricity per Mwh will be 9X the price per GJ. That's since a Mwh is 3.6 GJ and we need 1/0.4 or 2.5 as many. So gas fired electricity will be at least 9 X $10 = $90 per Mwh and wind power gets $90 subsidy plus extras so any combination must be over $90. Again that's double typical grid wholesale prices at the moment.

The only places that can do wind + gas cheaper than coal have low gas prices, no carbon tax and low wind power subsidies. That might have been the US at one time but Trump could change the subsidy aspect.

Nuclear advocates need to consider:

Nuclear power reactors in Victoria are non-starters due to:

- the overly leftwing trendy nature of Victorian voters and their political leadership

- even in a positive political climate establishing the business case, legislative changes, insurance, environmental approvals and construction time = 20 to 25 years...to get a power reactor (or preferably 3) feeding the grid.

Go for gas instead!

THORIUM?

If Australia were at the forefront of nuclear innovation we would have a remote chance of making Thorium technology viable - but we're not, so it isn't.

Point to much more advanced nuclear countries making Thorium a viable electricity producer. Why haven't they made it?

I have almost 40 years in the power industry, including coal fired, GT, solar thermal and diesel.

This article is both timely and well written.

Others have stated the obvious, which is that governments including SA, Vic and Australian, are not yet enthused by nuclear power, but that is to be expected - the discussion must precede any change of opinion, if that is to happen.

OLO deserves to be congratulated for bringing this to us. I happen to agree generally with what Taswegian has written, but that is beside my point, which is that topical, researched, facts-based articles such as this are essential

I had hoped our chief scientist would lead the nuclear debate but he is as doe-eyed about renewables as some here.

What's the point of taxing carbon, in one form or another (which is what the RET scheme is IMO), only to waste the money on renewables with the dream of some storage technology miraculously arising?

Do it once, do it right, nuclear for SA and the eastern seaboard.

Well forget everything, here is the answer, apparently!

"A fusion reactor capable of producing limitless clean energy is up and running in Germany.

The Wendelstein W7-X fusion energy device known as a stellarator produced its first batch of hydrogen plasma when it was started earlier this year.

The device essentially works like a star in a jar, harnessing the near infinite power of the sun. Since then scientists have been monitoring the device and recording readings, according to a study in the journal Nature Communications.

Once the technology is viable it could be incorporated into power plants across global cities allowing Earth to run on limitless clean energy indefinitely.

The W7-X is the world's largest stellarator and is currently operated by Max Planck Institute for Plasma Physics in Germany.

However, its development has been an international effort with scientists from the US Department of Energy's Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory (PPPL) working in collaboration with German officials.

Principal research physicist for the advanced projects division of PPPL, David Gates, issued an email stating the W7-X was running as planned.

"This lays the groundwork for the exciting high-performance plasma operations expected in the near future," Gates said.

"Fusion is a problem best solved by the peoples of all nations working together, since the entire world will benefit from it."

Here is the reliable (sic) link: http://www.9news.com.au/World/2016/12/10/11/27/German-scientists-create-a-star-in-a-jar
Cheers, Geoff