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The Forum > Article Comments > Will the lights go out in Victoria or just industry? > Comments

Will the lights go out in Victoria or just industry? : Comments

By Tom Quirk and Paul Miskelly, published 9/12/2016

There are two difficulties, intermittency and the same winds blowing across state borders causing correlated variations in the supply of wind power.

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Even if mandated wind power forces out some gas fired generation there must be a minimum level of gas to meet electrical demand through wind peaks and troughs. Some say that is 35% wind power in which case emissions would be 65% of mixed cycles gas emissions intensity. The claim is that would be about 320 grams of CO2 per average kwh whereas the IPCC wants power generation to get down to about 50 grams.

I think SA should get a mid sized nuclear plant to replace imports of coal power from either Vic or NSW. If those states eventually replaced their own coal plants with light water nuclear then the SA plant should be able to re-use much of that spent fuel. Several approaches may do this. Bury the leftovers up near Woomera.

It's interesting to note the converter station for Basslink HVDC cable is next to the Loy Yang brown coal plants. About a year ago the cable was fried sending too much power to Tasmania. Eventually the Vics want to import power after closing all the brown coal. It's not going to add up.
Posted by Taswegian, Friday, 9 December 2016 10:58:13 AM
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It's all beyond me; all I can say is that Australian politicians are madder than March hares, and I am dreading the long hot summer in South Australia, where the maddest politician of all has seen to it that we will have blackouts like never before, and he has now started yapping about some weirdo scheme to cut emissions as well, which will further increase prices of power. However, as we will be without power for much of the time, there will be a cost saving, I suppose; and when we die like flies in the heat, all our worries will be over.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 9 December 2016 12:10:16 PM
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"But the large supply of power from wind farms has destroyed the ability of the gas fed generators in South Australia to act as base load suppliers of power and so require higher prices for the delivery of power."
Firstly, the effect's not due to the large supply of power from wind farms alone; it's the combination of that and the ready availability of cheap baseload power from Victoria.

Secondly, the generation companies charge higher prices because they can. They would do the same thing if SA's power were coming from gas baseload rather than wind.

"Although the installed capacity of wind farms in New South Wales is only some 500 MW"
They're outputting 571MW now, so I think your figures are out of date.

"Worse may follow from the inherent instability of a system with a large supply of renewable energy"
There is no inherent instability. Whether a power supply is stable or not depends on what is done to keep it stable.

"The consequence of this is a distortion of the market that drives out high priced generators, such as the cleaner gas-fired plant"
Letting brown coal generators spew out huge amounts of pollution for free is a bigger distortion of the market that drives out high priced generators, such as the cleaner gas-fired plant!

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Taswegian,
SA's population is too low for a nuclear power plant to be viable.

On what do you base the claim that the fault in Basslink was the result of sending too much power to Tasmania?

Considering the amount of hydro capacity available, it's hard to see what makes you think it won't add up.
Posted by Aidan, Friday, 9 December 2016 1:02:56 PM
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ttbn: However, as we will be without power for much of the time, there will be a cost saving.

There is obviously 'cost-saving' method in the SA premier's madness.

Sadly, much of that madness has blown across the border to inflict the brain of the Victorian premier.

Thus, both premiers have hit upon a yet-to-be-announced effective way of reducing total power consumption (thereby cutting CO2 emissions) in their states, namely: discouraging new industry and frustrating existing industry into leaving -- but certainly not for greener pastures.
Posted by Raycom, Friday, 9 December 2016 1:34:24 PM
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Taswegian. Couldn't agree more. Uranium oxide available 'on site', process rods 'on site' and manufacture small portable (shipping container size) PRISM reactors and sell to the world on a 'swap and go' basis like gas bottles at the servo.
Provide free power to any industry investing in SA.
Posted by Prompete, Friday, 9 December 2016 1:36:32 PM
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Aidan I'm not saying twin AP1000s (2200 MW) as discussed at the Royal Commission though one day SA might link Perth to the east coast. Something like a 700 MW Candu as used in Qinshan China to re-burn light water fuel. Just a few months ago SA mothballed the 485 MW Pelican Pt and was about to retire the 400 MW Torrens Island A, both gas fired. The 540 MW Pt Augusta coal station closure was back in May.

The question of whether Basslink was fried by overuse is still with the lawyers. When the Tas dams got down to 13% full the smelters were on reduced power. Whatever sweeteners they got plus the hire of 100 diesel gensets was very costly. The new policy is that dams must be at least 30% full so there may be no power export in the next drought.
Posted by Taswegian, Friday, 9 December 2016 1:36:49 PM
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