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The Forum > Article Comments > Why some voters embrace Hanson and Trump > Comments

Why some voters embrace Hanson and Trump : Comments

By Toby Ralph, published 26/10/2016

There's a serious misunderstanding of the intentions of many Donald Trump and Pauline Hanson voters.

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Good analysis. Its seems that for the middle people having a cheaper tv and clothes doesn't make up for owning less land, more job insecurity, and as a direct consequence, a shattered family life.
Posted by progressive pat, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 8:47:00 AM
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I would like to see some examples of how "Globalisation is making our world more efficient and equitable. "

And why should we 'haves' "learn to have comparatively less"? We have worked for what we have. The 'have nots' should learn to do the same. What the cultural Marxists are really pushing for is wealth redistribution, so that everyone has nothing.

Globalisation is a dud.

The remark about Merkel's "global compassion" and "atonement for atrocities three quarters of a century ago" shows that the author, like Merkel, is hostage to the tyranny of guilt and self-loathing common to all "progressives" Sorry, there can be no atonement by people not responsible for the acts of others long dead. All that happens is that you are opening yourselves up to abuse from your enemies.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 10:24:18 AM
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anyone who can thinks knows the gw alaramist are charlatans and that immigration needs to be selective. The blatant lies told by academia and the political elite might have dumbed down the likes of the getup crowd and latte sippers however more have woken up to the con. People can now see that Islam is not a religion of peace, man made gw is a hoax for the gullible and that the boats could be stopped. Hanson might not be the brightest but she sures makes those caught up in leftist dogma look stupid. And to think they accuse her of slogans.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 10:26:09 AM
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I'm sorry but there's little here that has the ring of truth, just an argument for the status quo? People embrace Trump and Hanson because hey're up to here with the non core promises and business as usual of the establishment! And a failure to launch!

The Midwest is a rust belt and deep in is own new Great depression; and our industrial beltway, bringing up the rear?

Even so, the most important thing for our politicians, is just winning power and CONTROL, as if that were the only ultimate goal! With just cozying up to this or that vested interest, not that far behind?

A halfway decent analysis would understand, doing what you've always done, while expecting a different result, is madness!

As is a fire sale of your economic sovereignty to lowest bidder for some very short term gain or to serve some halfassed ideological imperative!

In the course of one lifetime, we were once the third wealthiest nation on the planet and a creditor one at that; and where a single salary could buy a house and serviceable car, feed clothe and educate a family; and even toss in a modest annual family holiday or two!

Look at us now, with increasingly unaffordable housing, over a hundred thousand homeless and a poverty line that goes on up and up swallowing great chunks of the former and disappearing middle class, as it rises like mercury in a thermometer! While more and more of our finite wealth concentrates in fewer and fewer hands!

And that's the central flaw in this alleged analysis! It argues as does all such flawed dog eat dog/prey and predator reasoning, that in order to have winners, there must be losers!

Or put another way, with just a few portly pompous popinjays, standing around a loaded and groaning banquet table; the vast majority must accept the occasional gnawed bones thrown at them as if they were just dogs reliant on the masters pleasure for a genuinely miserable share! Even as the sheer allegorical abundance rots where it lays!
I rest my case!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 26 October 2016 10:32:08 AM
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For a more realistic view of the trajectory of adversarial politics, as we have, visit South Sudan on any given day!
More and more the masses are ignored by the powerful, and eventually turned on each other to feed!
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 10:58:33 AM
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A good post Alan B....on the mark!
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 11:02:23 AM
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Every western style economy rests on just two support pillars! And they're energy and capital! And should never ever be privatized unless as nation building cooperatives!

That are like a race winner, minus the lead in the economic saddle bags!

We need to end the endless prevarication and economy harming ideological imperatives! Like that old hoary chestnut, the government has no business in business!

So it can vacate the field to the predators, when instead they need an urgent review and a return to bipartisan pragmatism!

In which case, we would embrace Nuclear energy, as myriad, mass produced SAFE, CLEAN thorium reactors, that allowed our manufacturing sector to be resuscitated with the cheapest power on the planet!

Then use that to enable cooperative capitalism/competitive edge that allows all those who work to keep the fruits of their labor!

The government's role, facilitators that enable enterprise and innovation by the entrepreneurs and their "resident" partners in our midst? And just get on as essential service providers that enable enterprise and endevour!

To that end, roll out rapid rail and fast ferries to link them with minimal handling, to our (scale of economy) markets!

Any an all infrastructure that is delayed for a decade, doubles in cost! Two decades, quadruples! So if we need to borrow? Now is the best time, while the cost benefit analysis still stacks up! I promise, it'll never get easier or cheaper!
So just don't do something, stand there!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 26 October 2016 11:06:21 AM
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A lot of baseless conjecture Toby, and nothing to support your conclusions.
Politicians have support from people who like their policies.
You have shown no reason for this to be any different in the case of Trump or Hanson.

Exercise some control over your imagination, and you may be able to talk some sense.
Posted by Leo Lane, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 11:54:46 AM
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While it's true that globalisation has widened the gap between rich and poor, Trump and Hanson supporters are generally ill-informed reactionaries who just want to blame someone for the state of their own dissatisfied lives.

They are addicted to outrage and cling to every conspiracy that comes their way.

I hear their factually incorrect paranoid rants on talk-back radio almost every day in spite of irrefutable evidence against them and many are not capable of independent or rational thought.

Fear and hate are the strongest emotions and advertisers know that happy people don't spend as much as miserable ones but they also tend to lash out and vote against everything they can because it's the only way they feel powerful.

Trump and Hanson have no real policies or solutions, just a deep well of resentment that others drink from willingly and eagerly.

Things can certainly be better but supporting Trump and Hanson because they are not someone else is the equivalent of "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

Building walls and demonising entire groups of people is just a step away from building internment camps and that never ends well for anybody.
Posted by rache, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 1:51:49 PM
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Trump and Hanson supporters are generally ill-informed reactionaries who just want to blame someone for the state of their own dissatisfied lives."

"Building walls and demonising entire groups of people is just a step away from building internment camps and that never ends well for anybody."

And I doubt the irony was intententional.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 2:21:08 PM
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rache says "Trump and Hanson have no real policies or solutions, just a deep well of resentment that others drink from willingly and eagerly. "
I keep hearing this but its simply not true. What they have are policies that differ from the mainstream parties and address concerns held by large numbers of people.
Trump has the policy of controlling the US borders and determining who enters the country and who doesn't. Funnily enough this is exactly the same as the current Australian policy. This addresses the concerns of working class Americans who must compete with around 15 million illegal immigrants for work and as such drives down wages. It also addresses the concerns of those who's neighbourhoods have demographically changed beyond recognition. He also has the policy of stopping Muslim migration. This addresses the real concern that America is increasingly becoming a target for Muslim terrorism. It seems the elite in the USA are unconcerned by the threat of terror attacks but ordinary people have seen the horrendous attacks in Paris where Muslim terrorists have massacred hundreds of people. they don't want to see that happen in their own country and hence don’t want their leaders to emulate the open door policies of Europe.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 3:31:34 PM
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In addition Trump has promised to renegotiate free trade deals which have led to the destruction of the manufacturing industry in the US.
Hanson policies are very similar and address similar issues.
I do not see it as racist to be proud of your history and culture and to value that culture above all others and wish to maintain that culture for the benefit of your children and grandchildren. All cultures and nations feel this way except for western elites who seem to be racked with self loathing and seem to yearn for the destruction of their own culture. Hanson addresses concerns about certain groups of immigrants (Muslims) not integrating into Australian society but rather maintaining their own cultural traditions which are utterly opposed to Australian culture. Many Australians share this concern but the major parties simply dismiss their concerns as racism or ignorance. That is why people vote for Trump and Hanson.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 3:37:29 PM
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Rache,

As you did last time - in a very confused manner, accused Jews of the behaving like Muslims - you have the got the shoe on the wrong foot. All the venom you blame on Trump and Hanson supporters actually comes from the Marxist Left which you, in your ignorance, adhere to apparently. The Left often complains about hate-speech all the while spewing out hate and fear themselves. If you are truly against the things you complain of, you are on the wrong side.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 3:43:20 PM
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Allow me to stir the possum, as follows:

"Western civilisation needs Trump. Western women need Trump. Feminists need Trump, as distasteful as this might seem to them. Let me go on. Christians need Trump. Jews need Trump. LGBTs need Trump. This is not the time to fret about Trump’s personal weaknesses for women. It is the time to rely on his strengths and his policies."

I thought that in the present context, this provided an interesting and perhaps unusual perspective.

See: https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2016/10/fair-weather-prattling/
Posted by Pilgrim, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 6:47:21 PM
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HOW CAN OLO PRINT THIS RUBBISH? Globalisation via the debt money creation system is enslaving the entire planet. Pauline Hanson wants bank reform and Trump wants the people to have some democracy and stop the US war machine.WTF ?
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 6:50:21 PM
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Michael Moore's take on why some voters embrace Trump https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc

Never saw this one coming, I thought he was a typically double standard "progressive" mouthpiece.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 7:34:07 PM
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And then there is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uElelx7rnbg very weird.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 7:45:24 PM
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Interesting video from Moore. The polls will need to be catastrophically wrong for his forecast to be correct, but I think he has captured the mood of those people, and I think that is what Toby is talking about.

I'd differ from both of them though in saying it isn't necessarily people who've been hurt by globalisation who are going to say "F U". There is a lot more at work here than economics.

There is a whole value system that is being challenged by the elites.

I heard Tony Burke on radio this morning complaining that the government won't listen to experts like Gillian Triggs, Justin Gleeson and the scientists on global warming. The idea that these people, who get their importance by being appointed in the first place by the Tony Burke's of the world, and have different values from most Australians, should be ceded the right to tell us all what to do is what gets up the noses of the people who vote Hanson or Trump.

Those are people like Michael Moore. Now he's recognised the problem, I wonder what he will do about it.

We do live in a democracy, but the technocrats and demagogues wish it weren't so, and will do what they can to stifle it.
Posted by GrahamY, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 7:51:31 PM
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Hey R0bert,
Quote - "Never saw this one coming, I thought he was a typically double standard 'progressive' mouthpiece."
- No you had it right, he is a 'typically double standard progressive mouthpiece'.

The first video you added the link to is taken out of context, sadly (it was a good speech).
It's part of a video entitled 'Michael Moore in TrumpLand' which was recently released.
You can watch it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1EnRLZ3p4o

Its supposed to be a one-night only show he did in the heart of a predominantly Trump voting area, but the audience came across as very 'progressive-like' to me and I felt like the whole thing was staged to some degree.

Whilst he did make a few reasonable points, I felt like he also actually insulted Trump voters (if there were really any there) and the whole thing was a journey into his besotted love for Hillary ever since he went to the Whitehouse to meet her.
He pointed out the Clinton body list and bragged about the death of Vince Foster like her killing people is a great thing.
He talked about Hillary wanting universal healthcare 20yrs ago and stated she could've save 1million Americans and tried to gain sympathy for her treatment.
He played the feminism card, heavily.
He tried to make the audience and viewers feel sorry for her, often focusing on female members of the audiences reactions.
He talked about how she would and should in her first 100 days rebuild America through executive order, (effectively tearing up the constitution) and concluded with a combination guilt trip / pathetic grovel insisting that even if Americans absolutely hate her, they should do the right thing for America and vote for her anyway, then go back to hating her.
And the people clapped. As if.

I think the independent media got suckered into playing and promoting Moore's clip that you linked.
The clip seems like a ploy get Trump supporters to feel sorry for Hillary and get them to vote for her whilst maybe also shining a spotlight on the healthcare issue he brought up.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 27 October 2016 12:56:09 AM
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Wow! Has there ever been a more arrogant article here, or one that got everything so wrong. I wonder how it is that this Toby bloke knows my thinking, better than I do.

God the disaffection must run very deep when even Graham, once a campaign director for a major, can come out against the status quo. He's right that there is much more than economics at play here. That the elites ignore all the problems they cause us peasants with their immigration, education, defence, energy & so many other policies is my complaint.

I had to pinch myself as I looked at how I was voting at the last election, but it was right. A number of my friends were annoyed with themselves after the election, that they couldn't quite bring themselves to do the same. The majors had better wise up damn quickly, because next time they will be putting then way down the list.

When I joined the navy, all bright eyed & bushy tailed in 1958, just the motto, "queen & country' was enough to have me prepared to lay down my life to defend my country.

Today I have no country. The elites, bureaucrats, academics & the other lefties, have given it away to any yobbo who wanted it. I wouldn't walk across the street to defend the mess we now have.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 27 October 2016 1:37:42 AM
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Hasbeen...
One of your better posts! Congratulations, you've nailed it!
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 27 October 2016 5:43:08 AM
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It appears that several commenters here have failed to realise that the author wasn’t making a blanket statement referring to all Trump and Hanson voters. (Perhaps a clearer title for the article would have been, “Why some voters who embrace Trump and Hanson do so”?) He only referred to a vague “many”, and I would agree that some Trump and Hanson voters (more so with Trump) just want to flip the establishment - that they feel has disenfranchised them - the bird, and flush them out. Not all of them are fearful, xenophobic bigots. However, to claim that the author has it wrong IS making a blanket statement about all Trump and Hanson voters.
Posted by AJ Philips, Thursday, 27 October 2016 6:52:13 AM
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For all the talk about Trump/Hanson policies they are little more than hollow aspirational claims.

As well as demonising various groups within their own societies Hanson's saying "I don't like it" is the just same as Trump's "I'll make American great again" and how he will magically "fix" everything.
Both groups also feed off vague paranoid claims about world-wide conspiracies working against the powerless but again, nothing specific.

Even the KKK has the restoration of local jobs and manufacturing, restrictions on immigration and the stopping of outsourcing as their political aims - just hollow rhetoric without practical substance.

Nothing has been forthcoming about how they would achieve ANY of those things, as if their just being there would magically make things happen.

They have to "put up or shut up" or they will just join the neverending list of political opportunists attracting (and eventually disappointing) disaffected voters.

Oh and tbbn - I'm actually not a Marxist but more a Centrist, but when you're so far to the right, everybody else must automatically look like a Leftist to you.
Posted by rache, Thursday, 27 October 2016 7:39:29 AM
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Hey rache,
I'm not sure Trump can fix everything, and really he doesn't need to.
As long as he prevents Hillary from starting WW3 as well as preventing her from selecting supreme court justices and changing laws and writing exectuative orders that would be more than enough, in my book.
The people are slowly being fed up with politicians that don't take their interests seriously and the winds of change seem to be coming soon enough anyway.

Trump has spoken about how he would realistically achieve some of the issues you mentioned, but the bought and paid for media spends every spare second writing negative stories instead.
The info you say doesn't exist is out there, you probably just haven't seen it.

You made the point that they 'demonise various groups within their own society' which is why I responded.
I'd like to argue that the other side too play divisive identity politics, and they in fact have created the game.

I think the left (Hillary in my example) has deliberately used 'feminism' and 'immigration' as devisive issues in order to gain a voting advantage over a certain group in order to get elected to power, all the while being an agent of the 1% and not actually being for the vast majority of people at all.

Speaking of WW3, I saw an article yesterday which speaks about Russia's new nuke in development.
It will take out an area the size of France, or Texas with 40 1mt warheads.
http://www.infowars.com/as-globalists-push-war-russia-unveils-defensive-nuke-that-can-destroy-texas-size-area/

Now theres 1000 kiloton in a megaton, and this is what just 15 kiloton will do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46GBjlUOROY
Do we really want to mess with Russia?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 27 October 2016 11:16:30 AM
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Things are bad but, they could be worse!
On the positive side, since China is well along the road, with its bloodless takes over of Australia, we should be safely protected by China, protecting their investments against Russian aggression !
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 27 October 2016 1:19:55 PM
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Too many many people miss the point.
Trump & Hanson, could they really be worse than Clinton and Shorten ?
I don't know, but our government has been told by its own departments
plus several out side organisations plus individual investigators
that the country is at severe risk and the opposition and government
take no notice and indeed act to suppress the reports.

The report in worse cases could result in starvation of the whole
population but they just do not want to know.
Hanson is like the rest of the population and just does not know either
but maybe someone may get her to listen. I suspect that she is more
down down to earth and a realist than any of the main stream pollies.

So in hope I will vote for her party at the next election if it does
not all blow up in our faces before then.
If it does there won't be an election anyway.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 27 October 2016 11:01:01 PM
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Alan B...our 'manufacturing sector' has steadily waned from the late 1970's. Holden, Ford, Mitsubishi etc were propped up over the past 40 years by the various subsidies and deals done during that time. Perhaps Herr Abbott was right to administer the coup de grace as he did. I sure wept tears as I watched the last Australian made Fords & Holden's race at Mt Panorama a few weekends ago !

Trump/Hanson appeal to the underdog, the battler, the folk in those societies who find it hard to rise above their lot. Where they have "stepped on it" is in 'othering' the Asian, the Muslim, the Hispanic and those people, who if included, would most probably have voted for them.

Don't forget for one moment though the influence of MSM barons and their vested interests. Money can't buy you love...it can, but don't go in unprotected...and it sure can buy lots of valuable votes. Hanson & Etteridge were sidelined because their voter base represented a serious threat to the LNP at the time and possibly will do again in the future.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Saturday, 29 October 2016 12:18:23 PM
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All these 'analyses' - whether sympathetic or antagonistic - of why people vote for Trump or Hanson are SO patronising, it makes my teeth grind.

They are pathologised, of course, as psychologically damaged losers in a system defined by winners. Don't for a moment think that they may actually be intelligent political beings who have thought through their decisions.
Posted by Killarney, Sunday, 30 October 2016 5:32:38 AM
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I'm deplorable...
What is Aleppo?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 30 October 2016 10:48:21 AM
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//What is Aleppo?//

It's a cross between leopard and a hippo.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Sunday, 30 October 2016 2:02:29 PM
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Really!!? Sounds terrifying
I tried to google it but all I could find was this place over in Europe.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 30 October 2016 6:25:01 PM
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Killarney well said.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Sunday, 30 October 2016 6:48:24 PM
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Supporters and/or policy makers for Trump, Hanson, and political parties who play up on and/or blame 'globalisation', 'immigration' etc. are simply recommending white nativist or national socialist policies via 'values', 'feeling's etc. matching their culturally specific supporters and/or policy makers.

The importance of Trump to the GOP's nativist or radical wings is that it's their last chance demographically; ageing culturally specific (mostly 'WASP') constituency is fading due to demographics (warning to LNP too).

The only way a political or social minority can continue to dominate is through national socialism, with short cuts on democracy, limiting the electoral franchise, civil society and freedom of speech. An essential element of this is misleading their constituents and the electorate through mainstream media; creation of confusion, uncertainty, fear, dystopia and some hysteria.

This affects everyone including politicians and media exemplified by the hubris of David Cameron risking Brexit via the EU referendum based on political analysis or media sources, gut instinct or being over run by emotion and mob rule?
Posted by Andras Smith, Sunday, 30 October 2016 7:39:21 PM
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Toby says:” Focus groups consistently show that a significant slab of them do not actively support the policies of their candidate, nor do they particularly want them to win”.
Toby does not say who these focus groups are, or how they take their samples, to obtain this highly suspect result.
Everyone I know that votes for Pauline Hanson wants her to win and pursue her policies, the same reason as I vote for her.
Rache makes the comment:” , Trump and Hanson supporters are generally ill-informed reactionaries who just want to blame someone for the state of their own dissatisfied lives.”.
She gives no basis for this remark, and doubtless does not know any of the people she baselessly vilifies. It is certainly wrong in respect of the Hanson supporters that I know, who have very satisfactory lives, and do not want them changed by poor government policies.
Toby has nothing to support his ridiculous assertions, and any comments which support him have no basis, as in Rache’s nonsense claim of “irrefutable evidence”.
Posted by Leo Lane, Sunday, 30 October 2016 11:28:57 PM
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A long but very interesting panel discussion held at New Saint Andrews College is on youtube at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZIL2Y0QtYI involving Peter Hitchins, Douglas Wilson (I think) and Walter Kirn.

Not totally impartial but not pro either candidate and what I found to be some really interesting coverage of the bigger issues.

I'm much more of a fan of Christopher Hitchins work than Peter's but think Pater made some very good points in this one. First time I'd seen Walter Kirn.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 1 November 2016 8:03:48 PM
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