The Forum > Article Comments > The need for renewable electricity > Comments
The need for renewable electricity : Comments
By Mike Pope, published 7/10/2016If Mr Turnbull had his way on continued use of coal, government would fail to realize its Paris commitment.
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Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 10 October 2016 5:52:14 PM
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Good points, Shadow Minister. The only current 'renewable' technology that I think could produce 24 hour per day, industrial scale electricity is Waste to Energy plants which are now being built in the US and Europe, partly because they are reasonably green and partly because they reduce landfill volumes by 80+%. We have two about to be built (I hope) in WA over the next year or two.
Posted by Bernie Masters, Monday, 10 October 2016 6:05:31 PM
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Shadow Minister, those are interesting observations. Do you have the references you're relying on to draw those conclusions?
Posted by Craig Minns, Monday, 10 October 2016 6:05:50 PM
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Theoretically we have a capitalist free market economy; in relation to fossil fuels major corporations benefit from a welfare state. The IMF has come up with some astounding figures. The IMF suggest that fossil fuels are subsidised world wide by $10 million per minute.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/18/fossil-fuel-companies-getting-10m-a-minute-in-subsidies-says-imf The first two paragraphs from reference: "Fossil fuel companies are benefitting from global subsidies of $5.3tn (£3.4tn) a year, equivalent to $10m a minute every day, according to a startling new estimate by the International Monetary Fund. The IMF calls the revelation “shocking” and says the figure is an “extremely robust” estimate of the true cost of fossil fuels. The $5.3tn subsidy estimated for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments." Posted by ant, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 6:42:54 AM
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Craig,
Some of the stuff I can supply links for, some of the stuff I know from time working in the recycling industry which ran a fluidized bed boiler for waste produced on site and from nearby industries, Biomass waste supply from Sydney. http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/vision/towards-2030/sustainability/waste-management As for CSP with storage, the latest utility sized molten salt project Crescent Dunes has a 10hr storage capacity (not 20hr as req for 18hr running) and after >80% low interest guaranteed government loans sells power for US$135 /MWhr or AU$180. Given that construction costs in Aus are far higher than the US, an unsubsidized cost of between $300 and $400 is more realistic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Project Feel free to produce information that contradicts what I have produced. Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 8:40:06 AM
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I'm sorry, you seem to have misunderstood, I asked for references.
Posted by Craig Minns, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 8:42:37 AM
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Having read the paper you sent me, and while I understand what they are trying to do, I have a few comments:
1 At least they have recognised the need for base load, and are using CSP with storage to provide 1/2 of all the power with hydro and biomass fuel to cover the peak loads
2 Unfortunately their costings are more than a little off.
a)So far CSP with storage (without subsidies) is costing closer to 40c/kWhr not 13c.
b)Biomass fuel costs are low assuming that the waste is dropped off by municipalities. However, the quantity of energy they have allocated to Biomass generation would require about 10x as much biowaste as all Aus cities produce. Agriculturally produced fuel would be far far more expensive, closer to 20c/kWhr.
3 Hydro is designed for load clipping and would struggle to produce flat for 5 days as in their model.
The reality is that the country would spend about $800bn to replace existing infrastructure, giving us wholesale electricity for 5x the existing cost.
This would effectively wipe out any remaining heavy industry and many light industries.