Avw,
"I take it you are also bitter about not having been invited on any of those trips."

Of course not, I couldn't care less about a free trip to Israel (like I'd even want to go there) and I have to add that I'm totally offended that you suggested it.

All I care about is Australia and Australians, and to suggest otherwise is a bloody disgrace.
Why exactly would caring about Australia and Australians NOT BE the naturally normal position for me to have?
Do you think I'd sell my country out over a free holiday you dirtbag?
I'm not like the 40% of Australians that weren't born here and probably would sell the country out at the mention of SOMETHING FREE.

You may see it as "a way of expressing the Israeli viewpoint" but some might see it as:
"Seeking To Influence Australian Foreign Policy";
Or "Buying Our Democracy";
Or "Subverting Our Country";
Or even "Buying Our Silent Complicity In The War Crimes Committed Upon The Palestinian People".

It is what it is mate.
Don't try to make it something isn't.

You want to know why people buy other people off?
Because it's cheaper.

If that doesn't work then use your power and influence to essentially blackmail them.
Sound familiar?

Armchair:

You really should learn to lighten up. All this anxiety and hostility is bad for your health. Is swearing at someone for disagreeing with you an acceptable response in your view? Is this how you normally present your arguments? I prefer facts and logic, but each to his own I guess.

"I couldn't care less about a free trip to Israel (like I'd even want to go there)"

Of course you wouldn't want to go there. Why should you do some first-hand research when you can simply rely on prejudice expressed by someone else? It's far easier.

Nothing forces an individual to agree with the Israeli point of view after completing their trip there. It's not like you need to sign a contract prior to your departure.

As for seeking to influence the foreign policy of another nation, allow me to let you in on a secret: every country in the world does exactly that - seeking to influence the foreign policy of other countries. I can recommend a few good books about this topic, but I doubt you'll ever read them anyway so why bother.

I hope you have stress-free day.

I'm just another mushroom when it comes to politics and the endless competition of "antiquated", irrelevant, backward looking ideas!

And with it, the prospering of some to the endless detriment of the (kept in the dark and fed lots of horse manure) mushrooms!

If our pollies excell in anything it has to be timidity and an over reliance on seriously questionable alliances and even more questionable trade pacts?

There's a lot of pot calling the kettle black in modern self serving tail wagging the dog politics or the manifest cronyism and rank hypocrisy that seems to further contaminate it?

What we need is forthright folk able to call a spade a shovel! Even if that upsets Sara Netanyahu?

We need to become a litte more inward looking and in complete control here at home; and create self sufficient independence that progressively incorporates complete self reliance!

That's where our future lies, particularly if the smoldering embers in the middle east become a conflagration that could usher in armageddon?

That means charting our own course, as opposed to one marked out (bought and paid for) for us by our so called (manipulating) allies or the fossil fuel industry/energy corporations! [Tobacco, asbestos, big pharma, coal corporations, power companies, along with an assorted assembly, whose primary commercial interests would be harmed if we ever put the true national interest first and protected it with bipartisan policy paradigms we could all believe as a single nation united behind common nation building purpose!

None of which is really served by sucking up to this or that counterproductive vested interest! be it Israel, Russia, North Korea, or any other trouble spot needing only the winds of change, or injustice, to fan smoldering embers into flame?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Monday, 26 September 2016 12:46:01 PM

Totally agree

'Nothing forces an individual to agree with the Israeli point of view after completing their trip there.'

Yeah ok, but tell me what's the percentage of MP's who do take the free trips then take a PRO-Israel stance, and what's the percentage of MP's that don't?
Tell me what's the success rate of these free trips?
Was it money well spent for Israel?
Foreign Policy stances purchased as cheap as chips?
I imagine it must be pretty hard going against the party's established status qao.

Since the entire planet is being swamped by mostly 'turd sandwhich' calibre leaders that would sell ALL of their citizens out at the drop of a hat for globalism, I don't really have anything to either add or retract to my original comment except to say that our politicians should be concerned with Australian issues and not indoctrinated into foreign ones.

Go ahead and find a way to argue with that.

I'm not going to apologise for my 'dirtbag' comment.
You invited it when you suggested that the normal thing to do is take the free trip and in effect sell my country out, and I took offense.
Just because our elected leaders do it without a second thought, doesn't mean I would.
I don't think its right, and I don't think it's funny.

AC:

"...tell me what's the percentage of MP's who do take the free trips then take a PRO-Israel stance, and what's the percentage of MP's that don't?"

Did you ever pause to consider that perhaps when presented with an accurate overview of the situation, rather than the venomous views and opinions expressed by some who have never bothered to visit the area and decide for themselves, those MPs might actually reach this conclusion of their own accord? Yes, perhaps it is money well spent, but opening someone's eyes to the real facts does not necessarily mean that their opinion is bought and paid for as you claim.

Like it or not, Australia is involved in world affairs, and given that we are involved, it is the duty of our politicians to try and get exposure to many points of view, not just yours. Would you prefer us to withdraw from all world affairs and live like hermits? Or (what is far more likely) is it only a particular policy that you are objecting to?

I do not need your apology for your name-calling. If this is what give you kicks, go right ahead. I understand where you're coming from, it's certainly easier to swear than actually present some logical thinking and rely on evidence and common sense.

"...you suggested that the normal thing to do is take the free trip and in effect sell my country out...I don't think its right, and I don't think it's funny"

I can see that truth and accuracy is not one of your strong suits either. Can you point to where exactly I said any of this? You're right it's not funny, and it's not true either.

I'll leave it at that.

I do not know anything of these Israeli trips.
What does it matter if someone goes there and changes his mind on
who is at fault in that land dispute.
He might change his mind because of what he saw.
Whats wrong with that ?
If he didn't change his mind.
Whats wrong with that ?

Bit of a storm in a teacup I think.