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The Forum > Article Comments > Unsettled Malcolm Roberts queries United Nation's science > Comments

Unsettled Malcolm Roberts queries United Nation's science : Comments

By John Nicol and Jennifer Marohasy, published 16/9/2016

At high altitudes, the greenhouse gases provide the only mechanism for the radiation of heat from the atmosphere to space.

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Siliggy,
I don't get drunk or get off my face on other drugs and so I cannot account for the very obvious errors in my post above.
It should read;
......beneficial AND has brought......
Plus; It SHOWS what a little teamwork can do.
Posted by JF Aus, Monday, 17 October 2016 5:28:19 AM
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The salmon fishery is more complicated than mere over fishing:

http://www.adn.com/alaska-news/article/decline-king-salmon-rooted-sea-state-biologists-say/2012/06/24/

http://fishbio.com/field-notes/the-fish-report/mystery-alaskas-chinook-salmon-decline

http://www.newsminer.com/news/alaska_news/science-unsure-of-cause-for-salmon-decline-in-yukon-river/article_38a95f14-58e2-11e6-829c-73b131965758.html

Quote from last reference:

"Plankton blooms need both daylight and sea ice, which the tiny plants use to anchor themselves. If the sea ice is gone by the time the sun is strong, the bloom is delayed and weakened.

"Where the ice is already gone and the sun's shining down, the bloom takes longer to happen and in some cases doesn't seem to provide the big energy boost that propagates through the system."

Others suggest that new species migrating into the area as the climate changes may introduce new competition or even new predators."

http://www-tc.pbs.org/emptyoceans/educators/activities/docs/Salmon-Scavenger-Hunt-fish-fate.pdf

The last reference lists:

Overfishing
Fish Farms
Dams/Dikes
Forestry Operations
Farming
Mining for gravel
Water use ...growth of settlements
Hatcheries
Invasive species
Natural predators
Global Warming

http://watershed.ucdavis.edu/scott_river/docs/reports/Preston_Fedor.pdf

Prior to the last El Nino there were articles about how some species of salmon were not travelling up rivers to spawn due to the temperature of fresh water in areas South of Alaska. It is quite a complicated matter; issues are different from one area in comparison to another, overfishing having been just one part of the matter.
Posted by ant, Monday, 17 October 2016 7:21:49 AM
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JF,
The iron dump caused an algal bloom of 10,000 square km’s off the coast of Canada. This is an area of 100 by 100km. It occurred about 500km north of the American border in 2013.
http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2012/10/rogue-geoengineering-to-create-algae.html
The areas you are complaining about are *already* known oceanic dead zones with their own reasons for local algal blooms and occurred 2 years later. The record breaking salmon run was 2013, your article is 2015. Comprehension, much?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/17/us-west-coast-toxic-algae-bloom-largest-ever-say-scientists
Also, I cannot believe someone as wonderfully familiar with the oceans as you obviously are complained that salmon don’t eat algae. It depends what you’re calling algae! I googled it, and salmon eat “ zooplankton, and larval and adult invertebrates. In the ocean, salmon eat smaller fish, such as herring, pelagic amphipods and krill.”

What do you think zooplankton eat? What about krill? ;-) Stimulate phytoplankton, and the zooplankton will thrive. It’s called the oceanic food web. Look it up.
Salmon might have less omega 3’s, but again you’re arguing from correlation, not causation. Overfishing is doing the primary damage to the ocean’s health, with local algal pollution remaining a serious local concern for some hatcheries. But again I emphasise, they are *local* concerns. 99% of the ocean is completely under-nourished. That’s WHY dumping iron dust WORKS in the first place, which you have conceded.
Also, while there is still debate at the political and UN level, the science of ocean fertilisation *has* been done. Again, if you EVER bothered to read ANY of the links I supply, you would know this. 13 studies have been carried out by international groups. It’s called Wikipedia. Try it. It won’t hurt – unless of course you’re too attached to what’s already inside your own head to risk it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_fertilization
The salmon numbers in 2013 were enormous and significant given how undernourished and overfished the ocean is. Read the government report. Hiding behind tonnage is just that: hiding. http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/fishing/pdfs/commercial/ADFG_pr_salmon_harvest_exvessel_10-12-13.pdf
Lastly, why are you thanking Sliggy? He has disproved your central hypothesis that algae cause global warming. Don’t hate me: I’m just the messenger. Comprehension, much?
Posted by Max Green, Monday, 17 October 2016 11:49:07 AM
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Max Green Says "National parks need maintenance, but I hope you're exaggerating them turning into deserts."
Nope.
This mans argument is at 90 degrees to the discussion here. He is a CO2 climate change believer but I have heard back from skeptic and warmist alike from many people after watching this that "it changed them".
How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change. Allan Savory
http://youtu.be/vpTHi7O66pI (1,299,765 views)

After watching this you may like to reflect upon the situation where people are trying to ban cattle from places where wild buffalo once roamed.

J F Aus
There are many anti nuke activists who say the blob is caused by Fukushima. It worries me to think of what may happen if these anti nukes found themselves stuck in an elevator thanks to wind turbines with some warmists. They may blame the warmists for creating the situation that allows nuclear generation to continue. Could get like a convention room double booked by the flat earthers and hollow earthers or a group of moon hoaxers sitting in a restaurant next to a table of "alternative 3" fans.
"“Dead animals litter California beaches… Alarming phenomenon” — “Graveyard of washed-up sea life” — “Influx of malnourished sea creatures” — Experts: We’re really starting to worry… The animals are starving to death… Covered in sores… Stunted growth… Weak immune systems (VIDEOS)"
Type "Algae" into the search box on the right near the magnifing glass here. http://enenews.com/
Will get back to you after looking for more info on the albedo of plankton. That finding about the radiative balance charts ignoring back radiation being reflected again by plants etc is a huge mistake on the part of the warmists. It could show the numbers to be all fake with a resultant shortfall of heat rather than a gain.
Posted by Siliggy, Monday, 17 October 2016 11:54:30 AM
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It is not correct to generalize by stating, “plankton blooms need both daylight and sea ice”.
This green algae bloom mass can be seen flowing in current under sea ice, not adhered to the ice.

Plankton blooms occur worldwide and depend on balanced nutrient being present, not just sunlight.

Yes, world ocean fish populations are more complicated than to be devastated by mere over fishing.

The Alaska News however refers to “sound fundamentals” and “whether Alaska king salmon are going hungry”, and that at the same time runs from Californian waters are the best in years.

From my point of view ocean change is occurring.
It’s like change between sunshine and rains.
Sometimes clouds are loaded with moisture resulting in flooding rain.
Sometimes underwater there are literally clouds of nutrient resulting in too much algae causing ocean dead zones or epiphyte growth that destroys already dwindling seagrass food web production for the year, somewhere.

In Moreton Bay Queensland in 2000 Lyngbya algae destroyed 30-40 sq km of seagrass and associated small fish production for the year.
When ALREADY emaciated mutton birds arrived migrating from ALASKAN waters to Tasmania they were unable to find adequate small fish.
Consequently mass starvation of those mutton birds immediately began extending along coast stretching from Queensland to South Australia and Tasmania.
Wildlife experts in four states were reported shocked by severity of the mortality.

That Lyngbya cyanobacteria algae suddenly appeared and bloomed immediately downstream from deep dredging and dumping of elevated nutrient spoil into Gold Coast northerly flowing alongshore current.

There are over 4,000 species of algae, some invasive that take up available nutrient and oxygen and food required by other biodiversity, sometimes more in one area than others. Patchy impact.
Alaska News reports, “patchy distribution of resources in the ocean”.

Algae is not inundating open oceans generally as could be expected if caused by excessive common CO2.

Algae blooms can be seen giving off warmth leading to precipitation.
Pinpoints of cloud can be seen forming above algae.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=40716

Small fish that salmon eat are devastated worldwide.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37321656

Nutrient pollution is the problem, not CO2.
Posted by JF Aus, Monday, 17 October 2016 12:47:46 PM
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I'm well aware of the Allan Savory debate, and embrace it where it works. But he's applying that specific instance to the global situation and sometimes it is simply not appropriate. Sometimes the scum ponds etc he blames for destroying the soil are actually entirely appropriate to be there.

However, there's a more local, more managed way to bring soils back to life that Polyface farms use. It mimics "mob and mow and move" of nature, but in a far more managed setting than just letting cattle graze through national parks destroying unique ecosystems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyface_Farm

You have linked to a guy that wants to repair damaged landscapes, but has a controversial method to do so. Also, you have avoided the causes of desertification, which are largely our cropland farming and overgrazing. Irony, much?

The albedo of patches of the earth is easily measured by satellites. I don't know why JF is so focussed on distorting the science of climate change, and trying to conflate an important LOCAL concern with a civilisation-threatening GLOBAL concern, but he is. Are you?
Posted by Max Green, Monday, 17 October 2016 12:59:04 PM
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