oh dear what are you saying that there is an exceptable level of suicide

I am going to suicide if you don't agree with me or do what I want. No wonder secularism has failed so badly when it feeds the worst of human nature. Idiotic perverted programs like 'safe' schools will produce much more confusion and destruction than those supporting what has been known as marriage for thousands of years.

It takes a particularly callous individual to trivialise and dismiss the mental health welfare of LGBTI citizens, and blatantly ignore the wealth of factual information readily available from professional bodies such as Beyond Blue and Suicide Prevention Australia on the horrific toll homophobic rhetoric has on LGBTI people.

But then the author of this piece has little regard for anything but his mission to ensure LGBTI people are marginalised, demonised and discriminated against. If a few happen to suffer psychological or physicall harm in the process, then so be it.

I doubt the author would be so flippant if it was his own child or family member at risk.

I agree with the sentiments of Rob1966! That said, I believe the author and all his classmates, will never settle for anything other than a plebiscite! Before they accept a majority view, if ever?

We need an end to the stalling prevarication and just get it done this year, lest it become an election issue that sends the liberals (an oxymoron if ever the was one) to the electoral wilderness? Via the very next poll that counts!?
Alan B.

Nicola Roxon, Penny Wong and other ministers of the Gillard government, including Gillard herself boasted that having changed scores of legislation the Labor+Greens government had removed all discrimination against homosexuals.

Were they lying?

Labor had also changed the de facto definition and rules to allow homosexual partners to claim married benefits, which was hugely popular with gay and lesbian public servants and other workers who then claimed spouse superannuation, travel and all other entitlements applicable to married status. As an aside, there has never been any reckoning of the flow-on costs to business and to the taxpayer from that.

There is very little 'discrimination' against homosexuals in Australia or the Western democracies generally. However, if discrimination was in fact a strong contributor to the neuroticism of homosexuals, there should have been a very noticeable drop, for example in Australia, when Rudd and Gillard governments did their wholesale changes to legislation and gays and lesbians accrued all of the married benefits of employment.

However, no such drop has ever been reported. To the contrary, gay pride activists and leftist 'Progressives' aka International Socialists claim the reverse is true, that the incidence of mental health problems and suicide has increased!

It is just as likely that risk takers, who are more disposed towards mental problems, are attracted to the gay lifestyle, and to the experimentation for example with illicit drugs that can lead to an 'interesting'(troublesome) life.

There are other likely causes too, such as the untreated incidence of partner violence among homosexuals and lesbians in particular, who now have additional levers to work on their partners and have the State interfering in their relationships thanks to the de facto law changes by Gillard and her Greens sidekicks.

Why would these obviously fragile people in need of so much protection from Marxist flamers, and so scared of of their fellow Australians, be encouraged to commit suicide by a plebicite that would solve the matter once and for all? This debate has been going on for a long while. There has been none of the "hate speech". There have been no suicides officially attributed to the debate; no cases of self harm (officially). How do these minorities trying to manipulate an entire society come up with this claptrap. They don't have any evidence for their bulldust. They are certainly not helping by suggesting that people wanting SSM, are too meek and useless to take adavantage of a democratic plebicite, which they are are adamant that will be supported by a majority of Australians.

Otb,

I wonder if her fellow comrades called Senator Wong a 'homophobic bigot' 6 years ago when she said that "marriage was between a man and a woman", in accordance with Gillard Labor government policy? Even the Great Gillard could be called the same thing.

The whole push for legalising gay marriage was predominately because a majority of voters were accepting of it. By the same yardstick a greater majority of voters prefer a plebiscite to a parliamentary vote.

Given that the Coalition has a mandate to pursue the Plebiscite, the alternative may be a parliamentary vote on in the issue only in 2019 or 2022.

If I was a young single worker today I would be very angry that both public and private sector workplace agreements provide additional benefits to 'marrieds' that include de facto partners, heterosexual and homosexual.

There is NO free lunch. Those additional benefits for large numbers of 'marrieds'(sic) have to be paid for and working singles are being forced to subsidise the 'love' choices of others.

I cannot see what benefit there is for a single worker, especially a young person, to belong to a union that is not bothered to represent his/her best interests. It is BS.

Gays only want to bet the gold stamp of legitimacy through trashing the Marriage Act. The experience of other countries that have introduced homosexual marriage is that there is a spate of show marriages by attention-seekers, immediately followed by separations. Then the interest peters away to a few lesbians who want wedding dresses and a photo somewhere.

Alright for pollies, private sector executives, senior public servants and others who can extract worthwhile benefits such as partner accompanied travel and super for life for the partner I suppose. A case of all for one and one for all, with the snouts planted firmly in the trough. However, someone always pays.

@onthebeach that young single worker is also funding people having kids and middle class welfare in general what is your point? as for your statement about gays separating please shown your research.

@runner please don't make commitments you're not prepared to follow through on.

Posted by Cobber the hound, "as for your statement about gays separating please shown your research"

Netherlands, try reading. Look it up for yourself. Besides, other posters have provided it many times before.

You say that, "that young single worker is also funding people having kids and middle class welfare in general", which only serves to prove the point I was making about the complete lack of care by Union heavies about the rights and welfare of single workers and especially young workers who are trying to make their way in the world.

Young workers have been copping the rough end of the pineapple for decades since Whitlam, also having to subsidise the gravy train of entitled 'victims'(sic) and their advocates and urgers that Labor relies on so heavily for votes in marginal seats.

@ontgebeach .. when you say "Netherlands, try reading. Look it up for yourself. Besides, other posters have provided it many times before." we all know you mean "I just made it up and have nothing to back up my claims".

Your antipathy towards the LGBTI community (like that of the author of this opinion piece) is writ large - and you demonstrate an ability (like the author) to ignore actual facts and manufacture your own in an endeavour to demonise that minority. The use of such misinformation is par for the course by the opponents of equality - who ignore actual facts, instead presenting their own unsubstantiated opinion as reality to create a strawman argument.

As for "trashing the Marriage Act", I think you'll find heterosexuals do that quite well on their own - and your attempt to blame "Gays" for your own ills is nothing but a misdirection (something else opponents to equality are good at).

@rob1966 exactly

@onthebeach just what exactly are you suggesting that unions should be asking for different rates of pay depending on people relationship status? Half the things your unhappy about have been brought in by Liberal governments not the unions.
Are you actually thinking about what you're saying or just having a rant?

Rob1966

Your a sick puppy....but do you realise how sick?

I once knew a girl that had regular sex with her dog, that's no lie. She often put on a demonstration at the back of the local pub for entertainment, which got plenty of laughs and much applause. She was a sick puppy.

Two sodimists using the anal passage for sex is not natural, and in my world , that gets plenty of laughs likewise. But I don't care personally about that. Like the girl and her dog, it is her business and none of my own?

Where it does become my business, is when you, (unlike the girl and her dog), wish to force your abstract ideas of life onto me, I object strongly!

Answer this question. Why should the State sanction an unnatural act of homosexuality, and include it under the heading of the natural ritual of marriage? In your view!

It is a fact that marriage has always been anathema to homosexuals.

Now we are expected to believe that homosexuals are suiciding because they cannot marry. Say what?!

Nicola Roxon, Penny Wong and other ministers of the Gillard government, including Gillard herself, boasted that having changed scores of legislation the Labor+Greens government had removed all discrimination against homosexuals.

Now we are being told by Labor and Greens that it was all in vain, or more simply, that Gillard, her ministers and her treacherous Greens sidekick Bob Brown all lied when they claimed to have removed all discrimination against homosexuals (and brought homosexual relationships under State direction and control).

Gillard and her anti-family, anti-male and absolutely anti-marriage ministers were by definition no supporters of marriage. In fact, as far left, radical feminists they imagined it was uber 'progressive' to destroy all of those social institutions. They said so too!

Of course, it was different where they could make a buck out of it themselves.

Now, 'progressivism' means 'gay' marriage. Labor and Greens are shameless. Frauds that are devoid of ethics.

@diver Dan ... it's probably escaped your attention but homosexuality is both perfectly legal and natural.

As for the remainder of your ignorant diatribe, I will provide that the response it deserves ..

@onthebeach ... I am sure there is a point to your rambling comments, although it is somewhat difficult to discern other than you have abjectly filed to substantiate any of the claims you previously made

D-

It sounds rather pathetic when appeals are made on behalf of young people who have a minority sexuality. Why should they be anymore suicidal than young people who belong to any other minority group?

Every young person has to integrate their sexuality into their personality and identity. It is just part of growing up. Lots of people have to struggle with aspects of who they are and how they fit into society. It is just called maturing. Young Muslims struggle because they are in a minority. Young Christians can likewise struggle. Disabled people have to learn how to live with their disability. People who are non-Caucasian have to fit in if they are in a minority.

Everyone has to fit in somewhere because of something about themselves which puts them in a minority group. Not all of them expect to be treated differently because of their minority status. Indeed part of the process involves asserting your rights to live like everyone else in society. Expecting the society to open up for you just because you belong to some minority group is not the way society works and most people from minorities would not have it any other way.

Kids from minority sexualities have to make their own way in the world. They have to be able to assert their rights and be able to present good strong arguments why they should be able to have what everyone else is entitled to. They should be encouraged to get out and be part of the debate about SSM if that is what they truly want. Retiring into suicidal thoughts is very counterproductive.

If older proponents for SSM begin pleading with the rest of society to 'go easy' on them it destroys their confidence and self-belief. It is telling them that there is something wrong with their minority status which fundamentally means they are not as strong as everyone else. This kind of attitude can lead to depression and suicidal thoughts and has nothing to do with their sexuality but a supposed inherent flaw in their make-up.

Rob1966...

I'm perfectly serious. You either cannot or will not, give one reason for the State to sanction the unnatural act of homosexuality, and include it into the marriage act?

well answer this question; are you homosexual?

I'm asking simple pertinent questions of you. Irrespective of whether you like me or not, these are questions you should be immediately happy to answer!

No, homosexuality is not natural. It may be a natural aberration, but it is not natural to be sexually engaged with the same sex. You are deluded, thus the "sick puppy" call!

Apperantely, by some equally strange logic, if a plebiscite is to go ahead, it will cause homosexual youth to suicide. This will come about it seems, because young homosexuals will be faced with the reality that homosexuality is not universally accepted as normal.

I would like to introduce you to the real world, where that sort of logic is questioned

"... by some equally strange logic, if a plebiscite is to go ahead, it will cause homosexual youth to suicide. This will come about it seems, because young homosexuals will be faced with the reality that homosexuality is not universally accepted as normal."

That's what the disingenuous SSM lobby is telling us.

But, wait a minute! How many homosexual youth suicided as a result of holding the same-sex marriage referendum in Ireland? None to my knowledge. Was this because Irish homosexual youth, unlike their Australian counterparts, are not suicidal?

rob1966: It takes a particularly callous individual to trivialise and dismiss the mental health welfare of LGBTI citizens,

Yet the LGBTI say being Gay is natural & it's not a mental health issue.

rob1966: But then the author of this piece has little regard for anything but his mission to ensure LGBTI people are marginalised, demonised and discriminated against.

The LGBTI do this themselves then blame the straight Community.

I believe that suicide is natural. It is Natures way of eliminating defective Genes from the Gene Pool for what ever reason. The only people it hurts are the family & friends of the person who committed the suicide. The person who committed the suicide had no regard for their friends or family.

People with serious Mental Health issues are a financial Burden on Society.

"oh dear what are you saying that there is an exceptable level of suicide
Posted by Cobber the hound, Monday, 5 September 2016 10:28:04 AM"

That'd be about right.

Thank you for your article David.

Given the level of intellect represented in some of the comments aimed at me I have to admit that I am impressed those particular individuals are actually capable of typing something into a computer - indeed, even being able to turn it on must be a challenge!

Not surprisingly, the wilful ignorance of research into self-harm and suicide is proudly displayed, along with deliberate misinterpretation of the plebiscite and how it will impact the mental health of many vulnerable peoples, and the conflation of unrelated topics in an attempt to create a strawman.

This ignorance, and childish (albeit outright) hostility and demeaning attitude towards LGBTI people is typical of those who oppose equality - and is an example of the "respectful" debate we can expect from the small minded followers of van Gend and his fellow fundamentalist Christian ideologues.

As some have demonstrated here, the welfare of LGBTI people is inconsequential to their desire to oppose equality - and if a few people self-harm or suicide because of their vitriolic and demeaning attacks from behind the safety of an anonymous keyboard then "so be it".

But unlike you, and van Gend, I can refer to qualified, medical practioners and professional bodies to substantiate that this article is blatant misinformation, and a demonstration by van Gend of the wilful ignorance of actual professional standards and position on suicide and self-harm.

I know actual science may be difficult for some here to comprehend so I'll summarise - van Gend is talking BS:

https://www.suicidepreventionaust.org/content/suicide-and-self-harm-among-gay-lesbian-bisexual-and-transgender-communities

rob1966:

If people commit suicide then surely that is their right to do so. Who are you to say that suicide is not a reasonable response to the reality that they perceive? No one can stop anyone from committing suicide if that is what they truly want and you are deluded if you think that you can stop someone who is determined to kill themselves.

You want the debate about SSM to be nice and pleasant so as not to cause suicides but that is just your way of trying to manipulate how the debate is conducted so that it does not make you feel uncomfortable. This is not a plea for vulnerable people but a plea for yourself and others who do not like hearing any criticism about their homosexuality or SSM. It is using young people as a shield to make opponents of SSM much more careful than they need to be. It is disgusting that you should use youth suicides in this way and shows how desperate you truly are to avoid any negative attitudes.

If you are serious about the damage such a debate may do then don't debate. It takes two sides to make a debate and if you do not partake then none of the supposed damage will occur. Opponents of SSM will have nothing to say because no one will be listening. If the polls are correct then there is no need to debate since it is already a done deal. The mere fact that you are on this forum participating in the debate means that you are contributing to the harm that you maintain will be a result of such debating and you have probably already been a contributor to any suicides that have happened.

As has been said; LGBTI is a strange way to spell 'queer'.

Robb1966

it is a fallacy to believe there is a stereotypical homosexual Robb1966.
There are some quite vicious criminal homosexuals incarcerated, who are far and away from the "pansy" description. The following is a list of homosexual serial killers!

http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html

The pansy myth, is a twin myth to the suicide theory.
The high court homosexual judge, making outrageous claims of self harm to homosexual youth should the plebiscite proceed, would be very aware of this fact.

One would think he would be honest enough (as a person of high standing in our community), to avoid creating deliberate hysteria by casting homosexuals under the misnomer of timid and fragile, as his claim attempts to do, by portraying homosexuals as weak and feeble minded enough to commit suicide by the mere discussion associated with a plebiscite.

A couple of good things that come out of Homosexual Suicide.

Another job vacancy.
More votes for the anti-SSM side.
Less money wasted in the Medical arena.
Less people with mental problems.

Some people suicide & the World a better place for their going. We should thank them for that.

Yes Jayb, ....and if they do it in increasing numbers, no plebiscite! A bit like fearless ISIS fighters in a way...maybe there is a homosexual heaven, with a hundred virgin toy boys for the faithful that suicide!

Here’s a racist version of the above three posts:

A couple of good things that come out of aboriginal suicide.

Less on the dole.
More votes for the anti-recognition side.
Less money wasted on aboriginal health programs.
Less people with alcohol problems.

Some people suicide and the world a better place for their going. We should thank them for that.

Yes Jayb, ....and if they do it in increasing numbers, no referendum! A bit like fearless ISIS fighters in a way...maybe there is an aboriginal heaven, with a hundred virgin black boys for the faithful that suicide!

If you’re offended by my version, but not the three posts that preceded it, then you are the problem. If neither of them offend you, then you too are a part of the problem, but at least you’re consistent.

AJ: If you’re offended by my version, but not the three posts that preceded it, then you are the problem. If neither of them offend you, then you too are a part of the problem, but at least you’re consistent.

The thing about being Offended. People chose to be offended about different things. It depends on what's "In" at the moment & what your friends think is offensive. The whole "Offended" thing is a sham to gain attention.

There are lot's of things I can pretend to be offended about. Most of them the opposite of what's "In" at the moment. It is being driven by the Lefty Latte Set who think they're better than you Plebs & demand that you take notice of them.