Are you clairvoyant Max, you know that's going to happen?

Did you need a computer model to prophecy that?

Another question please, why are climate alarmists always doom saying or "glass half empty"? We humans have a knack of adapting, scare campaigning doesn't help.

Cheers

Ross

@FireballXL5: "Just imagine all the broad acre farmland a thawed out tundra will provide and all the $billions saved in shipping by an ice free north west passage."

It'll be like the Garden of Eden all over again? Just imagine what the Methane Gas will do to push summer temperatures up 5-10C or more.

Just imagine what the Cyclones will do to Queensland where there is no more GBR to stop the waves hit the once protected 2,000 klm coastline with cities and towns all the way down.

If Australians are lucky Putin may let us all emigrate to Siberia as environmental refugees when the 'really clever people in this nation' work out the Murray-darling no longer flows, we can't grow enough food or catch enough fish to even feed ourselves let alone export our excess.

That's in a world where no one burns coal anymore, no Aussie coal miner is digging it up anymore, and Oil/Petroleum is severely rationed for emergency services only across the globe (maybe but when?)

AUSTRALIANS FOR COAL. What is your investment dollar doing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqXzAUaTUSc

How Not To Be Stupid - A Guide To Critical Thinking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OedkyxEqtA

Permafrost: The Tipping Time Bomb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLCgybStZ4g

Greenland when the Tundra is a "Garden of Eden"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkpFNteryX8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmC7-DrAuJU

The Greenland Ice sheet is 2 to 3 kilometers thick! OK?

Greenland Ice sheet is 1,710,000 km2 in area vs QLD 1.853 million km²
Now imagine an ice sheet 3 kilometers high across all of QLD and it's melting fast?

Heaven on Earth or an Earth in Hell?

Five Characteristics of Science Denial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXA777yUndQ

Hint: Read the Science!
-

Ross

If all the tundra thawed, then at the same time the Arctic Ocean would have no or very little sea ice.

If you honestly research that amount of thawing you won't like the answer.

Already in the Middle East in 2016 there have been temperature spikes of 50C and even in one case 60c.

A thawed tundra would mean huge qualities of CO2 and methane would be expelled.
Nothing to do with prophecy, it is already beginning to happen.
High temperature over a long period is required to thaw permafrost.

There have been 5 periods when extreme extinctions took place; severe volcanic activity being the cause for 4, and in the other a combination of volcanic activity and an asteroid hitting Earth. Once the volcanic activity settled; that is aerosols filtered out, CO2 became a huge issue.

So rather than prophecy, paleoclimatology gives some idea of what to expect.

But, a rather silly question to hang your second lot of comments from as the tundra will not thaw in our lifetime; or the life time of our children, even if born today.

oh no! The alarmists are......ummmm, alarmed.

Apparently Greenlands gunna melt.

On the other hand, during the Minoan Warm Period, temps in Greenland were a full 3c above present and somehow we survived. 2c higher during the Roman WP. More than 1c in the Medieval WP. The place didn't completely melt then but this time is different!
Of course, there was some melting which is why Erik the Red called it Greenland.

Apparently we're gunna have 100 million climate refugees (sometime).

On the other hand, in 2005 we were told there'd be 50 million climate refugees by 2010. When that didn't happen the prediction was quietly sent down the memory hole and all good warmists did likewise. But this time it'll be different.

Apparently we're gunna struggle to grow food.

On the other hand, food production has been increasing for the last 200 years and this year may see a record for world grain production. We know that plants grow better with higher levels of CO2. But, apparently, the past experience has nothing to do with the future.

Apparently the GBR is gunna disappear.

On the other hand, it's been around for, at least, several 100K years and survived periods with temps much higher than even those postulated. But this time it'll be different!

Apparently, 30% of all species are gunna cark it.

OTOH, in past 500yrs we had less than 1000 extinctions. In the next 34 years we'll have 3+ million. Alarmism on steroids. Remember when polar bears were going to go the way of the dodo? Or when frogs were being destroyed by climate change? Part of being a good loyal alarmist is knowing what to forget.

"On the other hand, during the Minoan Warm Period, temps in Greenland were a full 3c above present and somehow we survived. 2c higher during the Roman WP. More than 1c in the Medieval WP. The place didn't completely melt then but this time is different!
Of course, there was some melting which is why Erik the Red called it Greenland. "

Ha ha ha! Oh, wow, get some *general knowledge* boy! ;-)

"some melting". OK, how much? Got some evidence other than the worst real estate fraud in history? What about the fact that the vast majority of 'Greenland' is a 100,000 year old ice pack? Where's the 1000 year old ice pack? ;-) Forgot about that bit did we? Relying on denialist blogs again for your 'facts'? Too funny.

"Now Eric the Red had a tendency to get into arguments and kill people. After three such fights, he was exiled from Iceland for three years.

He had heard tales of a lush country over to the west, so he sailed in that direction.

After three years, he returned to Iceland with tales of this fertile land, and then set off again with a fleet to 25 ships to colonise Greenland.

At that time, in 985 AD, the climate in Greenland was similar to what it is today. And it wasn't particularly green — that was just creative advertising on the part of Eric the Red...

...The landscape is (and was then) about 80 per cent ice, 19 per cent bare rock, and just one per cent green. The little soil that was present had been built up over millions of years."

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/10/21/2396921.htm

My Granny, now she was a wise one. One day she pulled me aside from the family lunacy for a quiet word: She said: "Wee Tommie me lad, you've heard of the saying 'Never argue with a drunk'?"

"Sure," I replied.

"Well there's much more to that truism wee Tommie, listen to your Granny while I tell you the rest of the story," she chipped in. From memory it went like this:

Never argue with a drunk.
Never argue with a policemen, keep that for the Courts.
Never argue with someone holding a gun to your head.
Never argue with an alcoholic, even when sober.
Never argue with a drug addict, even when straight.
Never argue with a fanatical religious zealot, even when they're asleep.
Never argue with a rank idiot.
Never argue with a Bigot.
Never argue with an emotionally charged conspiracy theorist who has no knowledge and zero facts.

And most of all never argue with someone who by already proving their vapid lunacy, constant lies, sophistry and repetitive idiocracy is clearly a foundation member of the Fraternal Order of Fur King More Ron Brethren.

"Tommy me wee lad," my granny concluded "learn Math and practice it. maths doesn't lie, only really dumb and stupid people do that."

That's me Granny from Tipperary, now wasn't she a smart one from the green Isle?

WARNING: The following is NOT Suitable for Drunks et al

'Brethren' do not the difference between a UAH/RSS and GISS, HadCRUT & NCDC Data Temp Models for Avg Global Surface Temps.

Hint: Oil and Water!

Talking about Math, did you know Science that uses math all the time?

"I (Gavin Schmidt of NASA/GISS) how we can predict annual surface temperature anomalies based on El Niño and persistence – including a (by now unsurprising) prediction for a new record in 2016 and a slightly cooler, but still very warm, 2017."
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2016/09/predicting-annual-temperatures-a-year-ahead/

Then there's the Arctic Circle

New from NASA/GISS
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/2016-arctic-sea-ice-wintertime-extent-hits-another-record-low

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/09/arctic-sea-ice-coverage-is-at-its-2nd-lowest-on-record/

http://greatwhitecon.info/resources/arctic-sea-ice-graphs/

http://neven1.typepad.com/

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

and "An overview to get things into perspective"
http://www.climate4you.com/GlobalTemperatures.htm

What Global Warming Hiatus 'Brothers'?
-