Of course, the Palestinian narrative is rubbish.

But this does not make it in Israel's interest to keep the territories it took in 1967, which destroy it from within.

If Israel cannot trust the Palestinians to control these territories, then it should hand them to any other willing party. As far as I know, there is at least one other such party - the Jewish settlers (whose narrative is also rubbish), but there could well be others - what about the Chinese for example?

The 'Palestinian peace process' is just a process with no hope of peace. A complete waste of time and waffling by people who know nothing good will come of it. Ridiculous!

Hi David,
Your article comes across as being very Anti-Palestinian.
Did you produce a set of your own 'accurate maps' to make your argument with as I suggested last time?

Is your 'Jordon is Palestine' agenda not an attempt to lessen international pressure on Israel for a 2 state solution?
Is it not an attempt to subvert a common feeling between rational thinking people all over the world and also a majority of the UN member nations views?

Why should anyone care about a so-called 'Palestinian Narrative' (which could and should be taken as racist hate speech in light of Israels actions) when Israel itself refuses to state its borders and continues its illegal settlement activity?

Why should anyone care about objections to maps in a book or on a computer screen when Israel still routinely bulldozes ACTUAL peoples homes in contravention of international law?

Your argument attempts to change the whole narrative and point the finger elsewhere while Israel unconscionably continues its land theft.
You attack other peoples content rather put your own argument forward and have it stand on its own merits.
You don't seem to care about the truth, your article seems to try to hide or draw attention away from the truth, otherwise you would've commissioned and published your own maps.

The pro-Israel crowd attack anyone who doesn't follow the 'official story' which is whatever story the pro-Israel crowd decide it should be.

It seems to be you David consistently 'Perpetuating Propaganda' or at the very least, telling a biased one-sided story because of your own questionably racist agenda.
I think you just hate the Palestinians, and I think its about time you just admitted it.

The problem is with anything to do with Palestine & the Palestinians is if it dont fit Daves masters propaganda it has no validity,according to to the Lobby and Dave their industrious servant.

Any argument directed at David is pointless! The man is a patent recalcitrant ideologue with views carved in stone?
Alan B.

Hi David

The left have totally rewritten and reworded Australian history so its no surprise they are dishonest when it comes to Israel. The getup crowd certainly highlight how dumbed down unis have made our generation.

David, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

Trying to whitewash Israel is equivalent to trying to make fine china out of coarsely ground pig's bones.

Cheers!

I found these article and video links

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/news/1.633044

http://youtu.be/x8t6s-9S3Ys

#Yuyutsu

The settlers narrative is not rubbish. They were given the legal right to settle in Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and Gaza by the unanimous decision of the League of Nations as confirmed by article 80 of the UN Charter.

Those rights were illegally denied to them between 1948-1967 after six Arab armies invaded Palestine and drove out all the Jews living there.

They returned after 1967 and disengaged from Gaza in 2005 for which they have received thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into civilian population centers in Israel.

They are not ready or prepared to disengage from Judea and Samaria.

Once bitten - twice shy.

As for the Chinese? They are too busy occupying Tibet and building artificial islands in the South China Sea to bother about a piece of land the size of Delaware.

What other brain explosions might you have in mind?

If you come up with Jordan and Egypt as Arab interlocutors to replace the failed terrorist groups the PLO and Hamas - then perhaps we can have a rational discussion.

#tbbn

Must agree with you. Time to get Jordan and Egypt into the negotiating loop.

#Armchair critic

There are plenty of maps drawn up by cartographers that are accurate and readily available in a large range of textbooks and encyclopedias.

These four maps rejected by McGraw Hill have been found to be misleading and required to be trashed.

Israel's borders have been defined in the two peace treaties signed by it with Egypt in 1979 and Jordan in 1994.

If you ever decide to publish a textbook on the Jewish-Arab conflict please let me edit it first. It is very embarrassing to have your hard work end up in the garbage bin - like these misleading maps.

#John Ryan

I am more than happy for you to point out any purported factual errors in my articles.

I always stand ready to be corrected.

#Alan B

The same goes for you. Point out any errors and we can discuss.

#David G

The same goes for you

#Armchair critic

What particular matters do you want me to direct my attention to in the links to which you have referred?

Do they in any way contradict anything I have written in this article?

Dear David,

<<If you come up with Jordan and Egypt as Arab interlocutors to replace the failed terrorist groups the PLO and Hamas - then perhaps we can have a rational discussion.>>

It's not up to me - it's up to them. However, Jordan and Egypt are not complete idiots and it would clearly be suicidal against their best interests to even touch those cursed territories with a long stick. Also, if Egypt and/or Jordan crash as a result, then Israel would end up with even worse neighbours than today.

On the other hand, if 2-3 million Chinese settled there, then I'm sure that nobody will dare to challenge or replace them. They are very resourceful people who could do much with the land. Their existing land is very crowded and polluted, so the offer of clean air can be quite attractive to them. Even if it's just the area of Delaware, it's nearly 6 times the area of Hong Kong (with population of 7 million). In addition, they will also gladly accept the Golan Heights, from where they can further expand into Syria, Iraq and why not even further?

<<They are not ready or prepared to disengage from Judea and Samaria.>>

Very well - then they (the settlers) are welcome to stay there as they please, but then they should not complicate the state of Israel with their territorial ambitions or expect its protection. Let them take full responsibility for their situation, create their own state and see how well or otherwise they do.

I think laws can be very subjective, they aren't necessarily always fair, and also I think that the pro-Israel supporters are being hypocritical calling on the law to settle arguments when Israel itself violates many UN resolutions.

That said, I'm not convinced any of these old agreements are worth the paper they are written on.
Firstly the Balfour declaration represented an agreement relating to the US involvement in that war and deciding the future spoils of winning that war before it was even won.

And the Mandate for Palestine, it just confirmed British rule over the area and allowed the plan to re-establish the national homeland of the Jewish people to begin, which was what the original deal (and probably the wars themselves too) were all about in the first place.

I'm not sure the Palestinians ever had any say in the matters and when looked at in light of the idea that people have the right to self determination then Israel doesn't have either a moral or legal leg to act the way it does, in my opinion.

I tried looking up about the objections which were made to these plans back when they were originally discussed and how it was warned that unending turmoil would be the result on these plans but these voices were ignored.

I couldn't find the references, but I know they are there I'll find them again some other time.

It's also part of the reason why I say that Israel has brought all these problems on itself.

David,
The reason why you wont place any link to maps is essentially because there is no Palestinian areas at all on the proposed map you would provide, such as the Faisal-Weizmann map am I correct?
You argue Jordon is Palestine and that the Palestinians have no right to be there at all (in Israel) is that correct?
Is that any different at all to that in which we're told the Palestinians argue that Israel has no right to exist?
If so how is it different?

Your 'Jordon is Palestine' agenda is simply a legal avenue to solve the legal problem of Palestinians being considered stateless in my opinion, and a way forward in stopping any 2 state solution.

- It works towards an underlying goal of continued settlement building and ethnically cleansing the entire area of non-Jews, which is as racist as anything.

You don't have the right to settle (that you claim) if settling means that you first must be in breach of international law by bulldozing other peoples homes in order to settle.

These people have a right to self determination, your just claiming immunity from this because of the Israel clause.

Update:

Jewish Voice for Peace continues to fail to respond to this article.

Perhaps after reading the following article you may understand why the deafening silence.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2016...

#Armchair critic

You state:
"I'm not sure the Palestinians ever had any say in the matters"

This is yet another piece of classic Arab propaganda that you have apparently adopted without adequate investigation.

Please refer to the chronology set out in the following link which will show you that they had plenty of say but their appeals were always rejected.

http://btd.palestine-studies.org/content/chronology-1919-1936

Had the Arabs accepted the 78% of Palestine offered to them free of Jews in 1922 by the League of Nations - the Middle East would be such a different place today.

But their leaders have always shot for 100% bringing untold suffering on both Arabs and Jews for the last 95 years.

Until the Palestinian Arabs reject the current leadership of both the PLO and Hamas who still hunger for that 100% - as did their former leaders between 1922 to 1964 - the Jewish-Arab conflict will continue.

Until the Palestinian Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza are allowed to have free and fair elections to determine their future leaders to replace the failed PLO and Hamas leaderships they will be consigned to the political wilderness.

My Jordan is Palestine agenda is designed to end up with the Arabs having about 80% of Palestine in one State instead of the current 78% - and the Jews the remaining 20% in one State instead of the current 17%.

That is the kind of two state solution proposed in 1922, 1937, and 1947 and always available with the stroke of an Arab League pen at any time between 1948-1967.

That is the solution I have been advocating since about 1975 - well before the 1993 Oslo Accords and the proposal of President Bush in 2002 to create a second Arab State in former Palestine in addition to Jordan - both of which are effectively now dead and buried.

Do you find this agenda objectionable and if so for what reason? Are you - like the PLO and Hamas - agitating for the total 100% of former Palestine to go to the Arabs and nil to the Jews?