grateful: . With Abu Jahl instigating, Umayyah tied Bilal up and had him dragged around Mecca as a means to break Bilal's faith.

It just goes to show how barbaric Middle Eastern people are. Nothing has changed in 1300 years. They are still caught up in the same barbarity, now in the name of Islam. A good reason not to allow this Religion into Australia. Thank you for this conformation.

There are many similar stories about Christians being subjected to the same sort of tortures & not giving up their faith & I'm sure the same goes for any other Religion.

dsdm: Yet I did notice your overly emotional reaction to the geological evidence provided by Tas Walker (12/6/16). Yours was not a rational response.

That wasn't an emotional response, that was just stating plain fact. I tried to get emotional once but everyone laughed at me.

Dan,

An interesting reworking of the old, "Sitting in a church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car." (That was always a favourite ad hom of mine back in the day.)

<<Sitting in church doesn't make you a Christian theologian, no more than sitting in an armchair makes you an expert, nor sitting in McDonald's makes you a hamburger>>

But I never claimed to be a theologian. I am confident, however, that I know more about the Bible than most Christians, just as atheists tend to know more about religion in general than believers (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/09/28/130191248/atheists-and-agnostics-know-more-about-bible-than-religious). And what about my Bible study group attendance? You didn’t mention that and surely that helped with my Biblical knowledge. I was also one of the Sunday School teachers and went on to be a youth group leader in my final days of church attendance.

Yes, I was an active member of my church. My heart was filled with the love of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus the Christ, who on the night in which he was betrayed took bread… and I wanted to the rest of the world to find Jesus too and experience what I was experiencing. It was euphoric.

But I digress.

Your reworking of the ‘sitting in a church doesn’t make you a Christian’ line is an ad hominem because it addresses me rather than my arguments. You haven’t answered my question either. Do you subscribe to the Catholic belief when it comes to salvation, or the Protestant? Because you seem to have expressed both views now, and they are mutually exclusive.

grateful,

Are you exempt from the former because you’re not a theologian?

<<He condemned theologians venturing into to realm of science (if they are not qualified) as much as scientist delving into theology (without the qualifications).>>

Because you were guilty of that a little earlier.

The latter is nonsense, however, because theology is all made up and continuously reworked to get around logical problems when they're pointed out. One does not need to be a theologian to delve into it.

Thank-you for that refreshing dose of bigotry Jayb.

You need to get out and about, and mix a bit more.

I think the pre-occupation of AJ with the "man" rather than the "ball", along with the accusations of lying and character assignations of anyone he disagrees with, reflects his inability to mount a credible argument against the evidence offered by the Dan Battan.

Well done Dan.

grateful: Thank-you for that refreshing dose of bigotry Jayb.

It's not bigotry, it's just plain fact. Islam does not fit into Australian Culture & Australians should not have to change their way of life to appease such a horrifically violent & archaically centered Religion, just to be Politically Correct in Australia.

25 years ago Australia didn't have Security Alerts, Terrorist Alerts, ASIO spying on people, etc,. Australia didn't need to have these until the influx of Middle Eastern Islamic people. To rectify this problem Islam needs to be removed, Lock, Stock & Barrel, from the shores of Australia. Harsh but sensible for Australians safety.

Because Australians are mostly nominally Christian or no Religion they are under threat from Allah/Islam. All this because of a supposed "Allah/God" who supposedly loves us if we "Adore" him/Her/it or He/Her/it will have people run around killing those who don't. Isn't your "Allah/God" wonderful? Not.

grateful,

Why do you feel the need to defame those who discredit your arguments? At least I deal with an individual’s arguments before describing what it says about the person; and even then, I only do that when it has been going on for so long or is so overt that to ignore it is to ignore an elephant in the room.

In this instance, it appears that you are annoyed that I spotted you contradicting yourself. But that's okay, none of us is perfect. Just keep it in mind for next time. It'll help you to refine and better communicate your ideas in the future. But by focusing on me instead, or interpreting the revelation as a problem inherent within me, you will never grow in your ideas and will be doomed to repeat your mistakes.

Anyway, if I am unable to mount a credible argument, then why do you need to resort to personal attacks? Does the word irony or hypocrisy mean anything to you?

In case you missed it, not one of your arguments withstood my criticism. So apparently peeved by that are you now, that you can do nothing more than sit on the sidelines and throw stones. That’s a very petulant way to behave.

All you’re doing now is stomping your feet, and your congratulating Dan on arguments that have also flopped, and Batten on an article that I have already explained is fatally flawed, is a prime example of digging one’s heels in too. Either that or wilful blindness.

The most disappointing thing about all this is that I can tell that you are actually a really nice person. But as I pointed out earlier, religious beliefs appear to take on a life of their own and hijack their hosts. They even spread themselves like a virus and evolve to suit their environment like viruses do. Let me tell you, the parallels are astounding when you really get into it.

But that's another story. I at least remove some of the responsibility from you by portraying it in such a way.