Leo, returning to your post, you mentioned:

“Perhaps whatever our brain or personality type, our beliefs will be governed by our environment and community.”

I’d argue that if our beliefs are solely the product of “environment and community”, then any notion of free will is a delusion

Are you denying that we can exercise choice in the following sense:

"When a choice can be made that is not determined or necessitated by prior events then we can exercise freewill. The will is free when alternative choices could have

Interesting that those who ascribe culture, art, cults and religions to evolution are not prepared to tackle the question of choice and free will.

Would I be right in saying those present cannot reconcile the two?

Dear Grateful,

"Would I be right in saying those present cannot reconcile the two?"

Well, I am present, but I didn't take part in discussing this issue, even since you first raised it in page 30 ("I’d argue that if our beliefs are solely the product of “environment and community”, then any notion of free will is a delusion").

It's not that I cannot reconcile the two, but rather that I don't want to reconcile them. Even if I could, I believe that it would be sinful to do so. That would be similar to what the author of this article is trying to do, for which I criticise him.

That we experience free will is subjectively self-evident and this is sufficient to prompt us to choose responsibly, nothing more is needed: who cares whether it is a delusion, given that the world (including its "environment and community") is also a delusion!

One should not look at the world for answers. If we must ask about the world, then the only relevant question would be how we get our next meal from it to feed our bodies and shelter them from the elements. Once we settled and set aside this worry, we should have our attention on God alone.

Yutsie: we should have our attention on God alone.

But, there is no God. God & Gods are a man invented delusion for the Elite to control people.

We can all exercise Free Will, but it is controlled (muted) by Religion, Custom & the Community. EG; If you live in an Islamic Community & you want to exercise your Free Will to change you Religion. If you do, the Penalty is to have your head lopped off. Do you change your Religion? I don't think so. So you Free Will is Muted, isn't that right grateful?

Dear Grateful.

I don't know if there is a way to tell if there is such a thing as free will. When I do something I cannot be sure whether it was predictable, a sum of my experience or heredity or something else. I don't tackle the question of choice or free will since I don't think it is a real question.

You wrote: "David f wrote:

"How do you know an ant or an elephant has no choice or responsibility?"

In the same way as you do: through observation. Firstly, i have never heard of anyone demand of an ant or elephant that they be held to account for their actions. Secondly, science (as of last year's New Scientist) has found no other creature that has created anything that could be described as art."

I don't think you answered my question. Your remarks seemed irrelevant to the question.

Dear Jay,

<<We can all exercise Free Will, but it is controlled (muted) by Religion>>

By contemptible people who abuse religion and utter God's name in vain.

<<But, there is no God. God & Gods are a man invented delusion for the Elite to control people>>

When the name of God is used for sex, money and power - that is the worst sacrilege. Better for those who do so to be atheists who have never heard the name of God, nay better still for them to have never been born. I wrote that we should have our attention on God alone, but those lost souls have their attention on controlling others instead.

Now obviously, man cannot invent God: how possibly could a finite mortal do that? Man cannot even conceive the unfathomable. Rather, man invents different concepts of God and gods, some more suitable, appropriate and beneficial than others.

In a sense, it's true that there is no such object as God, no such creature. Logically speaking, it is an error to think of God as an object, as something that exists: on the other hand, for probably most people this is a very useful and beneficial logical error. Of course, if personally for you such concepts aren't beneficial then you would be better off staying away from all concepts of God.

So given that you are not one of those who benefits from a concept of God, how can you keep your attention on God? well as there is nothing but God, notice the sense that something is - you are, others are, life is, then have your attention on discerning the truth, asking what truly is: "Who am I", "What am I", "What is life" and "What others are". Doing so you will eventually realise God for yourself, without any interfering concepts and then if you prefer not to call Him by any name, still none of God's blessings will be missed.