Having looked at the resources available from the SSCA all I can say is how wonderful it is that these materials exist. They are not prescriptive, they do not tell kids that they have to do anything. All these resources do is provide information in a simple and age appropriate format. My daughter had a trans friend when she was quite young. Having a book like the Gender Fairy would have made explaining things so much easier. Providing information helps to make the unknown less scary. It helps people to understand that some differences are really just variations of the norm, instead of making it something to vilify.

What is bullying and brainwashing are those people who would make this information hard to come by in an effort to force people to adhere to what they believe is right and normal. It would be like a careers advisor telling kids that there is only one type of job they can do, regardless of what type of careers a kid wants or where their interests lie. Except that we all know that jobs are a choice while gender and sexual identity is not.

This is round earth stuff coming from a patent flat earther, who clearly disbelieves in God given difference and therefore feels compelled to rubbish it.

And given the very professional cynicism is imposed on kids who are born different, just straight out bullying from a clearly "obcessed" someone just not able to come to terms with that God given difference!

As for the articles he quoted from; they were clearly intended for very young folk unable to reconcile how they feel with how they look.

Look mate if you can't or won't help, just get yourself and your quite abysmal medieval stone age attitude out of the way!

And then we wonder why the suicide rate among young males is so high?

I believe there are far worse things to worry about, and that has to be the number of pious pedophiles hiding in plain sight in the private school system, and who seek to deflect attention from themselves and their covert activities by playing the anti gay saint?

Brainwashing? Well before you can wash them you need to find them and in your case that might be a bridge too far mate? In any event that is a case of the pot calling the kettle black!

Brainwashing is the particular forte of the cannot err religions. Where dogma and blind rigidity, have replaced reason and logic.
Rhrosty.

The education system seems to be in need of full privatisation now that the country is so diverse. The old, centralised programs on health, education and jobs are artefacts from a different era...as the safe school thing shows.

yep gw is going to kill us and yet allowing perverted ideology by people wanting to feel comfortable about their own choices is ok. Whta a gutless sick lot of pollies we haved to allow these engineers to mess with the minds of kids. They are as bad if not worse than the kiddie fiddlers.

What happens when kids stop believing in fairies? They will have to completely re-assess everything they have been taught about this subject.

What is wrong with saying that some people think that no one can tell you if you are a boy or a girl instead of stating it like a fact? It is the dishonesty in the way this material is presented which makes it unfit to be in the curriculum. It just shows how insecure are those people who prepare this material that they have to hide behind fairies and calling opinions facts.

The concern about the Safe Schools program is faux; and is, ironically, bullying.

"What happens when kids stop believing in fairies? They will have to completely re-assess everything they have been taught about this subject.

"What is wrong with saying that some people think that no one can tell you if you are a boy or a girl instead of stating it like a fact? It is the dishonesty in the way this material is presented which makes it unfit to be in the curriculum. It just shows how insecure are those people who prepare this material that they have to hide behind fairies and calling opinions facts."

Posted by phanto, Tuesday, 23 February 2016 9:51:30 AM

Did you use the word *fairies* pointedly, phanto??

I agree with the premise of your question -

"What is wrong with saying that some people think that no one can tell you if you are a boy or a girl ..."

But I disagree with your assertion that the way the material is being presented is dishonest; and I disagree with the implication the material is dishonest
.

Donnelly says - " ..there is nothing stopping primary school children looking around the SSCA website and getting themselves onto the MINUS18 website to read about binding, tucking and packing."

So what??! Kids may try it (many boys have, at one stage, briefly 'tucked' their penis, out of interest). It seems unlikely people who do not want to exhibit a change in gender will persistently do it.

'The concern about the Safe Schools program is faux; and is, ironically, bullying.

yeah McReal the perpetual victim. Gives you the licence to any sort of perverted activity just as long as you are the victim.

If you do your homework I think you will find that Greg belongs to the deeply misogynist outfit opus dei. Their attitude to sexuality and the body altogether is very double-minded and deeply puritanical too. Their senior members practice bodily mortification on a daily basis, as described here: http://www.odan.org/corporal_mortification.htm

Would you send your children to a school where the staff either practice or subscribe to this essentially psychotic practice?

McReal:

“Did you use the word *fairies* pointedly, phanto??”

I used that word because the educators used it. You are the one that seems to want to draw some pointedness from it. Why is that?

“I agree with the premise of your question –“

Questions don’t have premises. I asked a question. I was not mounting an argument.

“But I disagree with your assertion that the way the material is being presented is dishonest; and I disagree with the implication the material is dishonest”

I never said the material was dishonest. Material cannot be either honest or dishonest – only people can be honest or dishonest. It is being dishonest when you present something as fact when it is only just an opinion.

Anyone with an open mind should be able to discern that the 'anti-bullying' agenda for school students is really just another same sex agenda to promote everything other than 'normal' heterosexual sexuality as normal. It is now 'not politically/media correct' to utilize the term 'queer' regarding homosexuals even though they are 'queer' in the worldwide social framework [it is not commonly-practiced throughout the world regardless of whether the approx. 2.5-3% of the world - (not Kinsey's discredited 'research' which claimed 10%) believe themselves to not be 'unusual or queer' compared to the other 93% who do not subscribe to it as queer)]. Queer is now the new 'normal'; homosexuality widely marketed as being 'happy' [gay]. 'Discrimination', once held to a right of all, including parents, to evaluate and decide what views or stance they will take about anything is also legally 'outlawed' if it varies from those who wish to push a particular anti-discrimination agenda.
Truth about motives is rather scant in many discourses whether it be pedophile clergy et al being 'normal' with boys or homosexual pedophiles being 'normal' with boys and impressionable children. Concerned parents need to be contacting their local and federal politicians and tell them that they and their friends will not vote for them if they support 'discriminatory' aspects of the 'Anti Bullying' program in schools which are a clever marketing ploy of the Homosexual/Transsexual et al members of society. Or is this suggestion also seen to be divisive and clearly discriminatory but if the homosexual lobby group do the same to push their agendas perhaps this is clearly not discriminatory?

Hey Citizens Initiated Action, you do realise that there is more than one normal, right?

Daffy Duck:

“If you do your homework I think you will find that Greg belongs to the deeply misogynist outfit opus dei. Their attitude to sexuality and the body altogether is very double-minded and deeply puritanical too. Their senior members practice bodily mortification on a daily basis, as described here: http://www.odan.org/corporal_mortification.htm

Would you send your children to a school where the staff either practice or subscribe to this essentially psychotic practice?”

What does any of this matter? Why not focus on the arguments instead of the person? How do we know what bizarre organisations you belong to? Should we listen to your arguments as they are presented or should we investigate your background first? Of course you can hide behind your anonymity but only a coward would do that and cowardice is a lot worse than bodily mortification. Only one person gets hurt doing that.

'Hey Citizens Initiated Action, you do realise that there is more than one normal, right?'

Yeah right but simple biology Carz demands only one natural.

Another good Right wing member from the totally corrupt Sussex st horror chamber,a flat earthier like runner who along with this gent believes in convected fairy tales pushed by a church who hides Pedos.
Odus Dei the people who love Dictators so long as they let the Church rule the peoples minds and brainwash the kids,after many century's Ireland is finally waking up to these con artists,go away you have nothing useful to add

'Another good Right wing member from the totally corrupt Sussex st horror chamber,a flat earthier like runner who along with this gent believes in convected fairy tales pushed by a church who hides Pedos.'

feels better now John Ryan. And as for biology! No surprises from you.

Just a word of caution.

Parallel to this initiative, the Indigenous 'Recognition' push will probably reach the point of over-reach pretty quickly: some Indigenous groups will make demands to which the rest of Australia - once they have the chance to vote in a referendum - will say "No". No change.

Similarly, the push by the homosexual etc. lobby to demand that the rest of Australia goes along with all manner of idiocies, there will be a blowback.

Be careful what you wish for. Even Gramsci would have cautioned, take it one step at a time in your determination to destroy bourgeois society and all its values.

Just trying to help :)

Joe

//Similarly, the push by the homosexual etc. lobby to demand that the rest of Australia goes along with all manner of idiocies, there will be a blowback.//

What idiocies? A blowback? From who? A bunch of tired old geriatrics with one foot already in the grave?

We are younger, fitter and more vital than the geriatric brigade. If they want to make it a fight then I'm prepared to join the fray, because I know that the younger folk will win this one. Hell, we could win just by natural attrition - the old folks will die sooner than the young ones. They won't win through democracy, either - they haven't got the numbers, and their ranks dwindle constantly.

But none of my peers - straight males in the 30-40 age bracket - have the patience to wait for all of you old pricks to shuffle off the mortal coil. We'll keep pushing, and a bunch of sad old men complaining that things were better in the old days isn't likely to dissuade us.

Well said Toni.
What I don't understand is why anyone would actually 'want' to become another gender, or homosexual, if they weren't born that way, just because there is information about these differences in people out there?
If you are heterosexual, then nothing would make you have gay sex willingly, I would imagine?

If you had flat-earthed right wing fundamentalists like Runner and this author ranting and raving about their perceived depravity of all else other than heterosexuals, then actually wanting to become part of these genders would be stupid if you didn't feel you had to for your own sexual identity's sake.

Anyone who has a problem with this sort of information being available in our schools should send their kiddies to church-based schools, where they will learn absolutely nothing about the differences in people out there in the wider community.
Even better, home-school your kiddies, just to make damn sure they never learn the truth of real life, and that they only hear about their parent's brand of religion/gods.

Hi Toni,

I suppose time has ensured that, like it or not, I have become an old prick. But hey, you could get on the euthanasia bandwagon and advocate providing our doctors with mass injections for us. Then, there's always the death camp option. And as a bonus, you'll get our assets. Win-win-lose ! Two out of three ain't bad.

Big news: you'll also get older if you're lucky.

So put it all to a vote for all Australians. Then we'll see.

Hi Suse,

As an atheist, nothing you say seems to apply to me. You're barking up all the wrong trees.

Joe

Joe

Toni Lavis:

I haven’t seen such fire and brimstone since I read the bible!

Suseonline:

Why do you single out religious groups? There are many people who do not agree with these issues being raised in primary schools. You are just showing your phobia of religion and your bitter prejudice towards it. Why not just stick to the arguments they present

Toni,

The issue over this program is not just about the attitudes of the older generation vs the younger generation, but more about parents wanting a modicum of control over their kids education, something which I guess that the middle aged lefty pricks with no kids or very young kids have no real concept. My youngest is now in University, so while no longer have skin in the game, I can at least talk about my experiences.

At the schools my kids went to there was zero tolerance for bullying on any account, with bullies getting counselling, one warning, then expelled. Similarly sex education was detailed, factual and covered the risks in all types of relations. The result was pretty close to zero bullying and I could see no signs of intolerance from my kids or any of their friends.

The reality is that while nearly all parents are happy for their kids to be taught tolerance the program in pushing the extreme politically correct agenda that gender identification has no connection to biology went way too far and beyond what many less "progressive" parents could stomach and have wasted the money that could have taught tolerance and consigned it to the waste bin.

Is there really more bullying these days than back in the fifties and sixties and seventies ? I mean, physical bullying, belting kids, shoving their heads down toilets, that sort of thing ?

No ? Is it being called names ? Or whispering between other kids that gives the impression that people are calling other people names ? Or somebody looking like they would like to whisper to somebody and call somebody names ? Gosh, how stressful.

And does anybody think that, bringing suspicions about the sexuality of other kids up to the dim consciousness of potential bullies, somehow this will eliminate attacks on all those poor little things who now - not before, but now - have some sorts of doubts and uncertainties about their sexuality, whatever that is, whether they are boy or girl, regardless of the bits own there ?

Brilliant ! So issues that kids would never think about, and don't think about usually for many years yet in their lives, get all mixed up with being pushed around by the school idiot ? And they can put a name on it ? Absolute genius !

What pedophile dreamt this up ?

Joe

//I suppose time has ensured that, like it or not, I have become an old prick.//

No, it has just ensured that you have become old. Whether or not you're a prick is up to you.

//So put it all to a vote for all Australians. Then we'll see.//

I believe that is currently the plan. It's called a 'plebiscite' and the pollies have been banging on it about for months. It is almost a certainty.

My prediction of the result will be approximately a 80-20 split in favour of gay marriage. The government, with a clear mandate from the public, will propose a bill which will be passed in both houses. The 20% who voted no will be somewhat put out, which is usually the case when things don't go your way. The world will not be overturned and perish in fire and water, the reds under the bed won't come out of hiding and complete their wicked plans for world domination, and the kids won't all turn into poofters.

This is conjecture, of course, but I'm confident enough in most of those predictions to wager my hard-earned on the outcome: are you as prepared to put your money where your mouth is?

//I haven’t seen such fire and brimstone since I read the bible!//

I take it you don't read runner's posts.

//What pedophile dreamt this up ?//

Paedophilia? Really? Now you're just clutching at straws. Poor form, old man.

Toni Lavis "We are younger, fitter and more vital than the geriatric brigade. If they want to make it a fight then I'm prepared to join the fray, because I know that the younger folk will win this one ... But none of my peers - straight males in the 30-40 age bracket - have the patience to wait for all of you old pricks to shuffle off the mortal coil."

Such anger. And all over the desire to sexualise children: "I can't wait for you to all die so we can continue to sexualise children". You sound unhinged. I hope you have no access to children.

Another excellent article exposing the deviants in the education system.

Toni,

//What pedophile dreamt this up ?//

I rest my case.

That plebiscite result will be much closer than you think. 50-50 if you're lucky. And I don't think you will be, kid.

Joe

//I rest my case.//

Case? What case? You haven't presented a case, Jo(k)e.

Typing the word 'pedophile' [sic] and hoping that some people will leap to dodgy conclusions based on guilt by word-association is about as far removed from presenting a case it is possible to get without just typing gibberish, and it won't persuade anybody whose IQ is larger than their shoe size.

//That plebiscite result will be much closer than you think. 50-50 if you're lucky.//

Possibly. Such is the nature of gambling. But I wouldn't have wagered $100 on it if I wasn't reasonably confident in the outcome. Just out of interest, how confident in your predictions are you?

The odds are ridiculously short - when it comes to my winnings there will be very little money, but a lot of satisfaction from watching the sour grapes suddenly sprouting in the mental vineyards of certain cranky old men.

//Such anger. And all over the desire to sexualise children: "I can't wait for you to all die so we can continue to sexualise children".//

Yeah, of course, Aristocrat. What I'm really angry about isn't sad old tory pricks trying to impose moral censorship in classrooms, I'm just mad because I'm a dirty old man (sarcasm).

I identify as heterosexual, but my libido is so low (probably linked to my low testosterone levels) that for a long time I seriously considered the possibility that I might be asexual. Women don't interest me much sexually: kids, blokes, animals, corpses or whatever unusual orientation/weird sick paraphilia you want to try and ascribe to me is fine, because I've given a lot of thought to the matter and I know which way I swing (as limp as a windsock in a Beaufort scale 0 breeze - not because I lack the ability, just the inclination).

I don't care about kids. I know that makes me sound like some sort of monster, but I don't have any and I don't like kids unless they are seen and not heard - and not only are they too noisy, everybody else is too noisy on their behalf.

What raises my ire is sad old tory pricks decreeing that kids shouldn't be educated about homosexuality because homosexuality offends them. Football offends me, but I don't argue that kids shouldn't be taught to play football. Moral censorship has no place in the classroom - it is one short step away from indoctrinating children with propaganda. Isn't that what the Muslims do?

Hi Toni,

Commiserations.

Anyway, you suggest that " ..... indoctrinating children with propaganda. Isn't that what the Muslims do?.... "

Isn't that the point ? That if you throw all sorts of doubts at kids about their sexuality, long before they need to consider it/them, isn't that precisely a form of indoctrination ? Why not leave it alone until the kids are fifteen or sixteen, when they might be more likely to have made up their minds ?

Ah, now I get it. Christ, I'm a slow learner.

And what makes you think that homosexuals can't be bullies ? In my experience, that has certainly happened.

Joe

Toni Lavis:

“What raises my ire is sad old tory pricks decreeing that kids shouldn't be educated about homosexuality because homosexuality offends them.”

What does it matter that they are sad or old or tory or pricks? That’s four prejudices in one sentence. Your bitterness is incredible for someone your age. This is about more than sexuality for you. You do the cause for homosexual education way more harm than good. They want to present their case as reasonable and logical but when you present it it just come across as someone with a bag full of deep resentments using their issue to attack all those he feels hard done by.

I think they would be extremely angry about you using their cause for your own personal agenda.

//That if you throw all sorts of doubts at kids about their sexuality, long before they need to consider it/them, isn't that precisely a form of indoctrination ?//

No.

Doubt and skepticism are the polar opposites of indoctrination, and should be taught to children from kindergarten up. The idea of education is to teach kids how to think, not what to think.

I should also point out that most of the focus on sex-ed under the NSW curriculum when I was in high school dealt with heterosexual and homosexual activities. Despite all this 'indoctrination', I am a failure as a heterosexual and an even bigger failure as a homosexual. And you can't blame the quality of the teachers, the quality of the course material, or the quality of the student: I did well in high school, including Health/PD/PE. I had great teachers (except in English).

I just think that no amount of education or indoctrination will sway a person from swinging the way they are naturally inclined to swing. If you have hard data - or even some anecdotes or hearsay to suggest otherwise - I'd love to see it. Hell, maybe I can go in for some conversion therapy to make myself more heterosexual. Seeing as the school-based indoctrination failed - or did it?

But I'm not sure I'd like it, because I think it would distract from more interesting things like science. And it might turn me into a d!ckhead like Aristocrat, only capable of comprehending the world through a sexual lens. There is so much more to life.

Mr role model Shorten having a go at Cory today was surely the biggest joke of the year. The left are both perverted and pathetic.

Toni,

So now we hear that, as part of this indoctrination program, children are ENCOURAGED to look up web-sites glorifying homosexual activity. Rotherham, here we come.

I'll repeat: 'What pedophile dreamt this up ?'

Joe

It's not easy drawing the line between fairness and deviancy. But there is a policy on "king-hits" : they call it the coward punch . The media does that. Maybe it got through to some bullies. So how's about it's extended to school bullies in general? They are not a bully (muscly , tough , cattle ) but a coward. Usually it's a bigger boy on smaller , fierce on passive or group on single victim. Coward is from :turning tail, (cauda) but also : cow-herd. It changes the style as cowboy shifts to cow-herd with suggestion of force against female gender in an un-macho weak image.

I wonder if there is something in the water in Australia that brings out the rednecks, bigots and just plain stupid. Those espousing their indignation, moral outrage etc have likely not read the content of the program nor the depth of support organisations for the program.

Funded by the Federal Government and Victorian government, it enjoys the support of over 93 diverse institutions including Mental Health Commission NSW, Macquarie University, Australian Federation of AIDS Organisations, Shoalhaven Council, AlburyCity Council and on and on; a bit of a stretch to suggest they all are closet "paudophile grooming " supporters or involved in "radical forms of sex education that promotes a fluid gender ideology".

There is also 515 schools with about 400,000 students involved in the program.

It is a simple tenet that the program provides information unaccompanied by prejudice, agenda or judgement.

I am sure that Loudmouth, Runner et al would agree that information empowers the recipient...bet they would be all for it if we were discussing Muslims.

Hi Peter,

I don't think anybody here has suggested that the morons who initiated this program are pedophiles. Just the 'useful idiots' of pedophiles.

Aidan,

You suggest that "Doubt and skepticism are the polar opposites of indoctrination, and should be taught to children from kindergarten up."

Ultimately yes, but about one's sexuality ? Just as young children reach puberty ? Young children being indoctrinated to have doubts about their very being, as many might see it - whether they are a boy or a girl ?

Can you imagine the teasing that is probably going on right this minute between kids ?

Now on earth can it be suggested that, somehow, putting serious doubts in the minds of some children, just starting to experience all the chaos of puberty, about whether they are a boy or a girl, is NOT going to push some towards suicide ? Utterly lunatic. IF there are suicides, whose door do we lay responsibility for them at ? Gramsci, I suppose, poor little bugger.

We'll see.

Joe

You see Joe you do the same as the other extremists on this forum with "I don't think anybody here has suggested that the morons who initiated this program are pedophiles. Just the 'useful idiots' of pedophiles."

The pejorative use of "moron" says it all about you...I did not suggest that the supporters were paedophiles; that is your term and ridiculous. 93+ highly visible enterprises across the entire spectrum of Australian services support the program which is not new by the way, and yet you have a warped perspective without even being involved in the process.

Fail on credibility, fail on debate content and fail on logic!

Hi Peter,

So your entire case is built around the improper use of the word 'moron' ? You are perfectly free to use terms like 'the rednecks, bigots and just plain stupid', just as I am entitled to use the word 'moron'. It's called freedom of speech in both cases. Get over it.

I did not call supporters of this stupidity 'pedophiles' or, to please Toni, 'paedophiles'. [Actually, a more appropriate term would be 'pederasts'.] I suggested that it would, perhaps inadvertently, serve the cause of pedophiles. Have any of the morons involved thought about the impacts on pedophiles, and their vile activities ? Or are kids to be taught that pedophiles, 'uncles', are not so bad, they give you lollies, and it's okay for them to contact you on the internet and tell you exciting things, and for them to arrange to meet you and take you to the pictures after school. [Just don't tell mummy].

Ah, the refutation from a position of authority: the 97 authorities.

Guilty, your honour.

Joe