HI SM,

"There has never in history when the Arabs have not been killing or persecuting Jews."

Well, apart from the years before 622 AD, when Muhammad (assuming he actually existed) was supposed to be in Mecca, with few armed forces, co-operating with Jewish and Christian tribes. After his purported flight to Medina, he turned on them.

His soldiers captured one Jewish oasis with its leader, who they thought knew where treasure had been buried, so they tortured him but he wouldn't say where (because there probably wasn't any); so Muhammad ordered a fire to be built on his chest until he talked. He didn't.

Obama slightly mistranslated the word 'Islam' as having come from the word 'Salaam' - peace. Partly right: 'peace through total surrender, submission, subservience, slavery or conversion'.

Ah, so that's what people mean when they talk of a 'religion of peace': total submission, THEN peace.

Is there any part of the Muslim empire which was gained other than through invasion ? Syria ? Mesopotamia ? Persia ? Egypt ? North Africa ? Spain ? Up to central France in the west, and up to the gates of Vienna a thousand years later in the east ?

So what does anybody expect others to do ? Submit ? 'Live in peace' afterwards ? No, I guess if you live by the sword, you can expect to die by the sword.

And as long as Hamas etc. promote the slogan "To the Sea !" and Abbas can talk about the cleansing blood of those individual murders, AND talk about pushing Israelis into the sea as well, if that's the rule, then nobody should be surprised if the Israelis take it up as well.

Is it illegitimate to take other people's land ? Yes ? Then don't start it.

Cheers,

Joe

The answer is a One State Binational Solution based on two Republics in a federation - 'Israel/Palestine'. Where there is equal citizenship in every respect except representation in the Armed Forces. And where citizens can move between both republics ; and where Arabs, Jews and others are free to exchange land voluntarily. With anti-discrimination legislation applying in every other field. And with a truth and reconciliation process in good faith ; involving slow (hence demographically and economically sustainable) repatriation of Palestinian refugees, and generous compensation provided by both Israel and its allies. And further compensation for any refugees who voluntarily forego their citizenship in the new federation in return for a second round of compensation. (though that can only work with full and equal citizenship in countries like Lebanon) Also involving strong consultative processes where there are minorities - getting around the problem of 'formal democracy' - but effective exclusion of minorities.

nb: the voluntary loss of citizenship would only apply because of the practical problem that good will has not been achieved yet ; and hence 'slow repatriation' would exclude many of the over 4 million Palestinian refugees and their descendants. That would ensure that those excluded in that way would get recognition and compensation.