Insult the intelligence of Labor MP's?

Intelligence? what intelligence?

Could that be limited to how to graft and look after yourselves and a few slimey mates? Or he who must be obied? Another compulsive reason to add to a growing list of compulsive reasons for disbanding state Governments, one and all!
Rhrosty.

Voltaire said "to learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise."

No prizes for guessing which rogue state in south-west Asia that applies to.

All official visitors to Canberra should spend equal time in isolated indigenous communities.

I always wondered who dear old Dave worked for, he works for the local Israeli branch of the propaganda dept,do they pay him in OZ dollars or are they arranging a nice home in the illegally occupied territory's.
With the rest of the land thieves murders and lieing Settlers who inhabit them
As for the Australian and it chief whatever she calls herself the problem she has is she cant lay straight in bed when it comes to Israel as Chairman Murdoch will not allow any criticism of said place to appear.
Tick Tick people time is running out for the occupiers,land thieves, water thieves and Murderers who call themselves the IDF and act as armed bodyguards for the settler oppressors.

A doctorate in climate change & the church.

Enough said. The rest follows, as expected from that bit if tripe.

These aren't tours, they are buying our nations politicians and indoctrinating them.

I concur with the article and contend that AIJAC is indeed a self-fixated, malignantly corrupting unit functioning against the interests of most Australians.

I want to know the names of every single pollie that went on a free trip, and the ones who are defending them. You do realise no matter what they say they've flushed democracy down the toilet, and they think you're all to dumb to notice that they are openly admitting it.

Thank you Jews for subverting my countries politicians and buying out our countries democracy.

Thank you to Bishop Browning for such a accurate description of what really happens in Israel and the OPT. If you dont want to believe the good Bishop read the words of Jewish woman Susan Nathan "The Other Side of Israel" or enlightened Jewish man born in Israel to Zionist royalty Miko Peled in his book "The General's Son". Why would people like Susan and Miko speak out and suffer the consequences if it were not true? Miko's niece died in a suicide bombing for heaven's sake. There are others of course Pappe for one and all those brave young men and women from "Breaking the Silence" and similar groups who refuse to take part in the occupation. As for Beattie and the like, it is all about trade not Human Rights. Pretty disgusting I reckon.

George,

A Palestinian peace activist: unless you mean someone who is prepared to recognise the right of Israel to exist, and for Israelis not to be pushed into the sea - that does sound like an oxymoron. Do you mean Hanan Ashrawi, adviser to Mahmoud Abbas, now in his eleventh year of a four-year term as President of the PA ?

Paul,

As for your observation: "Voltaire said "to learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise. No prizes for guessing which rogue state in south-west Asia that applies to."

Do you mean Syria ? Iran ? Saudi Arabia ? Gaza ? Egypt ? the UAE ? My understanding is that none of these rogue states has a single Jewish member of parliament (or even a parliament in some cases), while Israel has Arab members of parliament, both Christian and Muslim.

Israel allows Christian churches and Muslim mosques to be built and for people to worship there. I don't think a single Muslim country allows synagogues to be built (except maybe Tunisia?)

In Israel, Christian and Muslim newspapers and other media are fully legal. I don't think that Jewish or Hebrew-language media are permitted in any Muslim country.

In Israel, I understand there are Christian, Druze and Muslim schools, there are Arabic-language schools, and Muslim and Christian students are fully able to enrol at universities, without having to pay any extra tax, like a jizra. I don't think any Muslim country can make that claim (again, except Tunisia?).

Is that what you are getting at when you speak of 'rogue states' ?

Shalom,

Joe

Hey Loudmouth
Is your allegiance to this country first or to Israel first?
A real Australian who wanted to embrace Australian culture wouldn't end their comments with Shalom.
I don't buy into the whole dual citizen Australian Jew type thing.
Your either Australian, or if your loyalty and allegiance lies elsewhere you're a foreigner.
At this point, I think your allegiance is to Israel first, so any comment you make will be biased and invalid, and since your a foreigner it doesn't matter what you say anyway, whether you reside here or not.

Nothing personal, just the way I see it.
You can't have loyalty and allegiance to somewhere else first and then still try to call yourself one of us.

Armchair,

I'm terribly sorry: Salaam then. Is that permitted ? But not 'shalom' ? [Expletives deleted].

Australian, of course, and forever. Are you suggesting that no word from any language can be used except English ? Not even 'paix', 'pace', 'eireni', 'paz', 'mir' - or 'shalom' ?

Fascinating: So, if I suggest that Israelis not be driven into the sea, therefore " .... I think your allegiance is to Israel first, so any comment you make will be biased and invalid, and since your a foreigner it doesn't matter what you say anyway, whether you reside here or not."

I would be proud to have some Jewish ancestry, Couchpotato, like my Hungarian step-grandfather. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to trace any. Jews have done so much for the world, out of all proportion with their numbers, in every field. Muslims - not so much. But I don't make judgments about what you press your lips against.

On the other hand, I do believe that people shouldn't be exterminated, or pushed into the sea - or of course, back into the desert.

To recognise Palestine currently, means to recognise the boundaries that it claims for itself - unless, of course, one stipulates that that is not the case - so to 'recognise' Palestine currently means to recognise their right to push five million Israelis into the sea, as they proclaim they intend to do if they had half a chance.

Is that your position ?

Anyway, shalom, peace be upon you.

Joe

Joe, the quote from Voltaire was from me, not 'Paul' whoever that might be. I used it to refer to Israel. There are a number of factual errors in your letter, but I would exceed the space limit discussing them all.

I highly recommend a brand new article by Philip Giraldi. He is the editor of the American Conservative and a former CIA agent. Not your typical leftie! His article is entitled "Israel's International Conspiracy". It can be found at the Unz Review, www.unz.com published on 9 February 2016. There is a very useful link in the article to another article that discusses the situation specifically in Australia.

Look also at Australia's voting record in the UN on all questions relating to Israel/Palestine in the past decades. We are generally in a minority of about 6 or 7 in supporting that appalling racist and violent criminal regime. All adjectives carefully chosen.

Hi James,

Voltaire, you, sorry.

Giraldi is not your typical Conservative either. He cites Seymour Hirsch approvingly, and quite properly. So I'm not sure what you're implying.

'Appallingly racist and violent regime' ? Compared to what ?

Questions: Should Israelis be pushed into the sea ? Should Israel not exist ? Is that your point ?

Joe

I'm not sure if their pros outweigh their cons, that is to say I'm not sure if all the good the best of them have achieved makes up for all the bad the worst of them has committed...

No tru-blue self respecting aussie bloke would use those words, and the fact you do makes it all the more confusing??
But oh well I guess were a diverse bunch nowadays and the lucky country went down the 's' bend some time back.
People like yourself probably watered us down.

>>To recognise Palestine currently, means to recognise the boundaries that it claims for itself - unless, of course, one stipulates that that is not the case - so to 'recognise' Palestine currently means to recognise their right to push five million Israelis into the sea, as they proclaim they intend to do if they had half a chance.<<

No that's not my position - you could say the exact same thing about Israel.
Why don't they state their borders they're the occupier?
- Because they want the WHOLE CAKE. Derrr

I no I don't support Jews being pushed into the sea, but it doesn't mean I don't think quite a few of em deserve a good kick up the proverbial.

I knew you were bias, and now I definitely don't think you're really aussie at heart even though maybe you technically are.

I bet you'd love one of those free Israel trips.
I reckon we should all chip in like the good aussies we are to get you a one way ticket
It'll be like going home for you.

Hi Joe. No, I do not support pushing Israelis or anyone else into the sea. Part of the problem is that people insist on presenting the issue in terms of false alternatives.
Neither do I support the so-called "two state solution" that the Australian government persists in supporting. That is simply (a) a refusal to recognise the realities; and (b) fundamentally a stalling tactic designed to do nothing while the Israelis continue to steal Palestinian land.
The only viable solution that I can see is one secular state with all its residents having equal rights. That may be fanciful, but the alternative, which is a continuation of the status quo, is even worse in the long run.

Hi Couchpotato,

Israel has offered recognition to Palestine several times since 1990, on the basis of the current borders between Israel and the west Bank-Gaza. They evacuated Gaza as a show of goodwill, isn't that so ? How did that turn out ?

I'm a true-blue Aussie, originally from Sydney, with at least eight convict ancestors, one from Bermuda and one who was transported twice. All thieves, none of them murderers. I suppose you can't get much more Aussie than that.

I don't have any great desire to visit Israel, but I do think they are as entitled as any other population to live within secure borders. No, I don't support the notion of Eretz Israel, just one country within secure borders and living at peace with its neighbours. After all, Judaism is a religion of peace.

Make of that what you like.

Shalom, Couchpotato,

Joe

Yes Israeli's are entitled to live within secure borders but they have never said what they are. Why? Because they want the lot! The ONLY solution is Palisrael. One state for all its people with equal rights whether no matter what your religion.

Dear James,

I understand and share your frustration regarding the impasse in the Middle East.

However, a shared secular state, while it suits your personal values, is something that practically nobody there wants, on either side - and it's them who would have to live with it, not you.

So if you are going to force something on them, then force the two-state solution - at least it has significant support among both local populations. Clearly their leaders cannot reach an agreement, but then there is no need for them agreeing: you just order them even as they kick and scream, "you stay on this side - you on the other, and no more quarrelling or else...".

Once the super-powers finish off the Islamic State, would be a good opportunity for them to continue their collaboration and tell the remaining parties in the Middle East with one voice where exactly they should be. Nobody will then be able to refuse them.

I've just followed the special discussion in the Knesset regarding the two-state solution. It was fascinating and one thing is very clear: unlike most Arab states (including Palestine/Gaza) where it's dangerous to express different opinions, there's no one Israel, but as many views there as there are Israelis.

What emerged in the discussion was that even the Israeli Labor party admits that for now it is not feasible to have a Palestinian state - not with the kind of incitement to destroy Israel which Palestinian children learn in school.

As a result, Labor wants to unilaterally remove 80,000 of the settlers who live the deepest within the West bank (of which they expect, 40,000 would willingly leave and only 40,000 hard-core settlers will resist), then build more protective walls that will better separate Israel from the Palestinians and prevent terror. Labor would not give up on peace in the long term, only admits that conditions are not yet ripe for it. Also, Labor agrees that as Israel cannot afford the Islamic State to gain control on the other side of its border, the Israeli army must remain in the West Bank for now.

Further left, the Meretz party wants an immediate Palestinian state declared on most of the West Bank.

The Arab parties expectedly call for Israel's immediate and unconditional full withdrawal.

Netanyahu as usual wants to continue doing nothing, while his coalition on the right pushes him to take decisive steps that will bring about the utmost despair and total surrender of the Palestinians, then they believe, having lost all national-hope, those Palestinians as individuals would be incorporated into Israel and enjoy economic prosperity.

My own view was missing, which is: "Look, these territories are not ours, we don't want them and eventually we'll not be there, so there's no place for Israeli civilians in there (if some Jews want to live there anyway than that's OK, but they would need to give up their Israeli citizenship). Unfortunately for the time-being, security conditions don't allow us to withdraw the army, but once conditions allow it we shall happily leave".

Hi James,

“The only viable solution that I can see is one secular state with all its residents having equal rights. That may be fanciful, but the alternative, which is a continuation of the status quo, is even worse in the long run.”

Yes, I've written that for years on OLO. I've added - under some international peace-keeping supervision, perhaps for fifty years or so. But a lot of water will have to flow under the bridge, and a lot of Islamist fires put out, before all that will be remotely possible.

So it's good of you to get on-board :)

My bet, though - especially if ISIS has some successes in the near future - is that extreme right-wing Palestinian groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad will flip from Iran to the Saudis and join ISIS. We'll see.

Cheers,

Joe

Hey, what happened to all the anti-Semitics ? Waiting for instructions from the extreme right Islamist imams ?

Here's an issue for you to get all ropeable about: Jewish agencies bought houses and land from Palestinians from the late nineteenth century and won't give them back. They probably have some notion that once land is Jewish, it will remain Jewish. Is that proper ? [Trick question]

Actually, Jewish families evacuated parts of east Jerusalem to make way for Arab families.

Get stuck in. Somehow mention banks. And conspiracies. And big noses. And the takeover of Hollywood.

Joe

Israelis are MIDDLE EAST NAZIS
That's it pure and simple.
They act in every way exactly like the Nazis did in Warsaw except they havnt exterminated the Palestinians , not because they don't want too its just that they can't with the world watching. But given half a chance !

Met lots of Israelis world wide and in countries like India and Thailand the guest house and taxis hate them and often put out signs saying NO ISRAELIS , for good reason as they treat local people like scum.
Fact
I've traveled extensively for 5 months of every year, for 40 years ,this is viewed behaviour.
JohnBigMac

Hi Big Mac,

Don't you love that logic:

"They act in every way exactly like the Nazis did in Warsaw except they haven't exterminated the Palestinians , not because they don't want too its just that they can't with the world watching. But given half a chance !"

A are as bad as B ! Well, they would be if they could be. Therefore, A are as bad as B ! QED.

Any more pearls of wisdom ? What about banks ? Conspiracies ? Or noses ?

Cheers,

Joe