'The construct of man-made global warming has become a quasi-religious belief for many people'

author summing it up in one. Science left the arguement a long time ago. The numerous dud predictions by the alarmist (often getting short on funds) has woken the general public to the deceitful, unscientific nature of the warmist. Has Tim and Gore finally gone into hiding? No shame!

ant wrote:
"Tim is wrong about CO2 not reacting with infrared radiated long waves"

Tim, my dear boy, never mentioned "infrared radiated long waves" so I wonder how you know what his views on it are. Actually we all know. You just assume that all people you call deniers (what do they deny?) think that "infrared radiated long waves" don't react with CO2. But that's utterly wrong. Very few so-called deniers quibble on this point. But you wouldn't know that because you refuse to read anything that might shake your religious convictions (eg the Exxon memos) and therefore you have no idea what so-called deniers think.

Rhrosty wrote"
"Then there is cheaper than coal thorium"

Every time AGW gets raised Rhrosty regurgitates his thorium trope. I haven't bothered before but just for laughs let's just point out that there is NO working commercial thorium reactor, and there won't be for a very long time. The Chinese have thrown mega-bucks at it, but alas, no luck yet. At this stage the only way one will come online, even assuming the myriad logistic problems are resolved, will be with massive government subsidies that'll make the money wasted on bird extinction devices (aka wind turbines) look like petty cash.

Unfortunately for Rhrosty, even though he's utterly wrong on this one, it was the most accurate part of his post. Oh dear.

Bugsy wrote:
"The impacts of DDT"

I'm amazed there are still folk who see DDT as anything other than a nett good for mankind

I liked the article, it makes the correct point that there are many other environmental issues that more important and easier to deal with than the highly dubious C02 issue. The one that really worries me is that GM foods may well result in greatly reduced fertility in future generations. Reports that I've had suggest that within 2 or 3 generations mice cannot get babies. Currently falling fertility levels suggest something is going on.

Pollution clearly is a huge issue - in water, air and foods. All issues that can be addressed effectively, bit by bit ... but alas not profitably :(

As to climate change, frankly the biggest issue is a likely volcanic outpouring that will make for 'nuclear winter' on a grand scale. The last biggie was in the date we ascribe as AD534. I wrote an article about this it was in New Dawn magazine. Such events are not uncommon, it is not about 'if' but when.

Tim wrote:

"CO2 is increasing and human activity is contributing to this, but there is genuine scientific debate about how much this affects temperature."

mhaze wrote:

"Tim, my dear boy, never mentioned "infrared radiated long waves""

Discussing infrared radiated long waves relates directly to Tim's statement. A clear case of obfuscation as the evidence does not suit particular views. Its a bit like suggesting 1 . 1=2, without showing a plus sign. CO2 + infrared radiated long waves creates warmth.
The ARM study shows what's happening in the open environment in relation to radiated infrared long waves and CO2. There is no debate about this study.
It displays the denier problem, very few peer reviewed papers are published by skeptical scientist; yet, numerous papers are continually published about climate change overall.

What about Bolivia's Lake Poopo; mhaze, any explanation for the lake drying?

What about Tasmania, Evacuation Centres had to be set up for two major unprecedented occurrences; bushfires and flooding? Some areas that have been hit by fire have not been touched by fires for thousands of years. An amazing number of fires are burning.
Air quality around the State has been an issue for almost a fortnight due to smoke, pretty well unprecedented. With regard to rainfall, record falls have been recorded at Launceston the highest recorded for January since recording began. Twice the monthly average Januaury rainfall having fallen in one day (Weatherzone). Australian examples of what has been happening in the Northern Hemisphere.

It gets back to the question, regardless of what is causing climate change; what strategic planning needs to happen to be ready for bushfires, drought and sea level rise.

The chinese are throwing mega bucks at thorium by building a reactor a week a week. And given the discovery of thorium isotope 303, they no longer need to be kick started with enriched uranium or uranium oxides. Yes they are too small, [with the maximum reported generation being just 40 MW,] for use in a national grid!

But just what the doctor ordered for many localized power delivery systems. Particularly when paralleling can up the available megawatts almost indefinitely?

And given very local application, eliminate the transmission line losses(averaging 11%) and the distribution losses, (averaging 64%) which between them, more than double the current customer cost, and Co2 emissions.

Thorium reactors are 50's technology abandoned during the early stages of the cold war because there were no weapons spin offs.

And I will keep repeating this message until it sinks in! Even where it starts to annoy the tripe out of self serving moribund coal devotees, advocates and shareholders?

The simple truth that these folk just ignore is that some of our industries may still survive or even do well with energy costs more than halved!

As would be the case for very localized thorium in a not for profit public supply paradigm.

Suddenly energy dependant manufacture becomes both profitable and a vastly reduced source of carbon emission.

And could include a completely resuscitated car building industry, ship and sub manufacture, and not just for our domestic market, but the world's?

Moreover, metals smelting in modern day electric arc furnaces, which has to include, Australian invented single step steel smelting. Which as anybody with half a brain knows is the steel industry with the lowest carbon emission and given thorim even lower again!

And given a not for profit public supply paradigm, also the world's lowest costing steel industry! Particularly when you factor in years of around 30% chinese wages inflation?

Little wonder those with the most to lose, endlessly bag both thorim and a return to public ownership of cash cow essential service?
Rhrosty.

Read everything I written above and then given a still functioning cerebral cortex, understand, it is our economy stupid!
Rhrosty.