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The Forum > Article Comments > Universal Basic Income is the policy that an innovative society needs. > Comments

Universal Basic Income is the policy that an innovative society needs. : Comments

By John Tomlinson, published 15/1/2016

Finland is preparing to run a series of pilot programs to test whether universal basic incomes are an appropriate way to proceed in that country.

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It's okay to build dream castles in the clouds John, but it's a mistake to move in as a permanent resident?

Besides the Fins are not only considerably smarter than us or indeed our so called leaders,(to the power of ten) but are much better resourced? (A larger land mass and a bigger population) NO? Just more smarts? SURELY NOT?

We simply must keep ensuring by the most clever and opaque means, that the tax avoidance industry remains very much alive and well? And we're beating the pants off of the Fins there, aren't we?

After all, any real shortfalls can be made good by unattended bracket creep, plus increasing the GST to 15% and by widening the base?

And if that results in a few more oldies (folks who defended and built this nation with almost endless sacrifice) staggering off of the mortal coil prematurely?

Just think of the social security savings and the windfall of monitorized real estate that'll create?

Even if that GST increase means the average household is 3% worse of and the poorest as much as 7% worse off.

The pollies can compensate themselves with yet another unjustifiable pay rise?

Even so, the much maligned carbon tax wouldn't and didn't cost 3-7%?

After all, we must make sure our political masters get the Government they, it would seem, pay for?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 15 January 2016 9:55:35 AM
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Absolutely YES to UBI. I've always said so, including for some of the reasons that the author mentions as well as for other reasons - but it must REPLACE all other forms of social-security, rather than come on top.

The state should not for example provide health services or education: you get a lump UBI sum (either in fortnightly payments or as a tax refund), then do with it what you want: want health services? then use some of it for a private health insurance; want education? then shop around for schools and/or tutors.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 15 January 2016 11:47:54 AM
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Yuyutsu, why is it you think it would be better for the state to give the same amount to everyone regardless of need, helping the rich but leaving many people with greater needs destitute?
Posted by Aidan, Friday, 15 January 2016 11:53:21 AM
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New Idea? we have been doing it for years. It's called volunteering. You should try it some time. Infact here half the population over 50 are doing it: You live on an organised income, be it pension, superannuation, investment or bank interest, and you go out and work at something you enjoy doing. If you do not have a vision your self there are many groups doing worthwhile and creative work you can join. It is amazing how your potential increases when you work with a group of likeminded people.

I have been saying it for years: work is to valuable an activity to waste on those that do it just for the money! The human mind needs the challenges nature provides. So, go for it!
Posted by Alfred, Friday, 15 January 2016 12:26:57 PM
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Dear Aidan,

The rich will not be helped as they probably will pay more extra tax to finance the UBI than the UBI that they will personally receive as a tax-offset. The UBI should be high enough so that nobody needs to be destitute (unless it's of their own making).

I would love to respond more comprehensively to your question, and hopefully eventually will, but I am extremely busy these days.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 15 January 2016 1:07:45 PM
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I thoroughly endorse this and have long believed that its time has come. In fact, it's long overdue.

Welfare policing and a labyrinthine administrative bureaucracy has rendered social welfare grotesquely expensive, inefficient and counter-productive. The people who actually need the funds are either not getting them or are being subject to ever more creative forms of psychological torture and hoop jumping to prove how destitute they are, while the well paid bureaucrats, private HR firms and employment counsellors are soaking up the welfare budget.

My main concern, however, is that it should not be universal. It makes no sense. People over a certain income do not need a UBI and its ridiculous to have the taxpayer forking the bill to allow someone on $100 grand a year to be paid an extra $300 per week.

I also think that those on a UBI, who are working below a certain minimum hours per week, and who are not in a domestic caring role, should be required to make up the shortfall in volunteer work.

This is not because I think they SHOULD work; rather, it's to offset the extreme prejudice in our society towards people being paid while not working within the paid workforce system. Without such a caveat, the poverty-intolerant in our society will seek to dismantle the UBI, just as they've virtually dismantled the welfare state.
Posted by Killarney, Saturday, 16 January 2016 2:41:46 AM
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