Climate Change fact has gone beyond proof, only fools will deny it is happening. Nature has long been compromised, and tipped into changes that are going to be destructive unless we can claw back the massive amount of pollution going into our environment.

If all Co2 going into our atmosphere was ceased today, some 40 years will pass before a reversal is in motion.

The destruction done by then may mean 90% of AU is a dust bowl.

mikk wrote .."Why choose 30 years for fact one."
Well he didn't. He just mentioned that the definition of climate is "average weather over a 30-year period" which is definitionally a fact. You should reread the article - you might need to wipe the spittle of the screen first.

mikk wrote..."we can be pretty confident that its future predictions are reasonably sound." A mere 2% of models predict a 15yr hiatus. None predict a 20yr hiatus. The models are broken. Of coarse, scientists have myriad reasons for the hiatus which are things that they hadn't modelled correctly. These will be included in future models and will inevitably reduce the predicted warming.

mikk wrote..."a snide insult at scientists of which you are obviously not one. " Geologists aren't scientists! How knew? Climate science requires input from many disciplines, including geologists. For example, to predict temperatures in 2100, they need to know about the likely economic output through to 2100 so they can understand likely emissions. So they need economists. But if an economist (eg Henderson) dares to advise that the economic scenarios used to decide we're all gunna die aren't realistic, then they're told by the likes of mikk that they don't have a say because (all together now) they aren't climate scientists.

ant continues to bang on about the supposed crimes of Exxon. But has he read the actual documents like I suggested? Why not? Exxon are so comfortable that they are in the right here that they haven't even bothered to mount a defence other than to just tell people to read the ALL the documents which the activists are using to make their juvenile claims. Because when you read ALL the documents you see that Exxon did nothing wrong. And that why ant hasn't read them....the committed only want to see that which confirms their commitment.

I suggest 579 you stop displaying your ignorance. You are not doing your religion any favours.

Yes the climate is changing, that is what it does and will continue to do whatever the humans do or don't do. When, and it will come eventually, the next ice age arrives people will be looking at ways to prevent it, and governments will probably use it as an excuse to tax the masses in order to build big heat generators or divert energy from the sun onto the ice fields, or some other hair brained idea.

According to some warmists it's already too late to reverse the trend, the effects of manmade global warming are going to have a negative impact for the next 1000 years. If that's true then nothing we do over the next 25 years is going to help our children or even our great-grand-children.

As recently as 2009 Al Gore and a host of others including Australia's Climate Guru Tim Flannery were predicting the poles could be ice free by 2015 based on the wonderful scientific computer modelling they are still using to predict doom and gloom for the planet 100 years from now. If the modelling has proven anything, its proven it cannot be trusted.

There also seems to be a total lack of faith that human ingenuity, innovation, and survival instinct will produce the necessary technology to address the life demands of the future, just as it has in the past.

To all the Chicken Littles out there, THE WORLD IS NOT COMING TO AN END!

Redistributing the wealth is not going to change the weather patterns.

If you want something genuine to fear, look at what is happening right now in front of your faces in Europe. There is the real man-made issue that threatens our way of life and seriously needs immediate attention.

mikk

You obviously haven't understood the whole debate.

It is not enough to point to a detriment, any detriment, and then squark that the solution is total government power over anything and everything. And a claim of right and power to control all carbon oxidation and reduction reactions in the world is just that. You are a just totalitarian, that is all.

Rationality always means something *in relation to something else*, you fool.

Obviously if you simply disregard any benefit, anything will seem a disaster. And if you simply disregard any cost, anything will seem beneficial.

And that is all the intellectual technique you, and all warmists are using: you need to account for the same quantity on both sides of the equation; either that or go back to kindergarten.

IF the "insurance" you propose cost nothing, then fine.

The problem is, you have made no attempt whatsoever to consider the downsides, or to consider the issue *of value* from other people's point of view, and this fact COMPLETELY INVALIDATES your, and the warmist argument.

Merely having hysterics about slogans is all you've got.

And if you're so worried about the fruits of capitalism, then STOP CONSUMING THEM, including to participate in this discussion, hypocrite.

Brian
Your argument is indeed ad hominem, and this invalidates it.

Mine is not. Still waiting for you to show answer my questions which disprove the case for any climate policy whatsoever,until which, we are both agreed that your argument is irrational.

Warmists
What does it matter to you whether other people share your religious opinions?

Your open-ended unquestioning blind faith in authority, your furious personal abuse of anyone daring to question you, and refusal to engage in the issues of rationality, all prove that what you are doing is religion, not science.

When the next ice age comes we will have drowned in sea water, There is not enough high ground for the worlds population to escape the sea level rise that is happening now.

As it is now we will have 3.0 meters of sea rise before any reversal takes place if Co2 was stopped today.

That is the bare facts, as it stands now.