Every event Syd Hickman criticizes Adam Goodes for in this article is to do with race or perceptions of race.

Goodes reacting spontaneously to a spectator of as-then unknown age calling him an 'ape'during a game in the *Indigenous Round*! Calling a person of colour an ape (or gorila) is far more likely to have racial over-tones than calling a Caucasian-European an ape.

Saying "Goodes, by becoming Australian of the Year with a self-appointed task of telling everyone to stop being racist, has become a politician" is a misrepresentation. Goodes did what all Australians of the Year do: he spoke out on the domestic issues associated with reasons he was appointed.

Calling Goodes war dance a "racially charged aggressive act" is disingenuous - it was more a cultural act performed during *the Indigenous Round* !

Good article. Goodes problems are squarely down to his own personality and his own attitudes and behavior. Aboriginal Australians have been reported as being embarrased by Goodes. One aboriginal blogger came out of retirement to say that he was embarrassed by Goodes. The AFL and sanctimonious commentators have embarrassed themselves - made absolute fools of themselves by chuntering on about 'racism'.

Goodes does NOT represent anyone except HIMSELF. He is causing unnecessary angst for people he THINKS he represents in some way. His problem is Goodes, Goodes, Goodes.

By any measure, Adam Goodes is a great bloke, both on and off the field. The young girl who called him an ape was wrong to do it, but she was just articulating what she saw. The bearded Adam obviously doesn't look in a mirror. He made a mistake and over reacted. Now his supporters have backed him into a corner by playing the race card and he has compounded the problem by carrying on with racist antics.

He should remember that he is in a very privileged position as Australian of the year and although many might see him as a representative of the Aboriginal community, he also has three non aboriginal grandfathers to whom he also owes honor as well as the rest of the community.

I hope that when he comes back, after due reflection, he just gets on playing the game and forgets about all the usual antics after he scores the inevitable goals.

David

Thanks Sid for a reasoned response. The problem is that when someone becomes a puppet of regressive dogma and selective history they are exempt from criticism. Adam has done very well out of western civilisation. Yes he has worked hard and is talented but like so many glorifying parts of culture that are not savoury has become bitter.

The young girl who was pointed out by Goodes after her thoughtless, pejorative comment was a loud-mouthed example of her family's failings.
In turn, that family possibly was influenced by society's disregard for the effects of boorish behaviour.
Where the hell did she get the idea that it was OK to denigrate someone by calling them an ape?
A good example of monkey hear, monkey do.

Ponder,
By going to the footy.

Many that go to matches are amused by the comments of other spectators and indeed it seems to be a contest as to who can make the most outlandish or wittiest remark about a refs decision or linemans call.

I would be disappointed if a daughter of mine made such a comment, but kids can surprise under peer pressure. I certainly would reprimand.

However Goodes did over react and should have let it pass. He would have had far worse name calls and rude comments during his career.

It seems to be part of the game for players and spectators to do all they can to put their opponants off their game.

A good presentation of the issues, but Syd’s perception that the Sorry campaign did any overall good is mistaken. A Gratitude movement by the indigenous community would have been more appropriate, and would have had the potential of people like Goodes being grateful for the society brought to them by civilization, which may have meant that he would not make a baseless accusation of racism against a schoolgirl who called him an ape.
That is how Goodes is perceived, and being appointed Australian of the Year, by the same entity that previously selected a disingenuous clown like Flannery for the honour, simply adds fuel to the fire.
Goodes needs to apply his considerable talent to healing his rift with the community, and cease indulging himself in antics which aggravate the situation. In particular, he should forget about the politically correct baseless nonsense term of.”racism”.
As one anthropologist put it, the life of the Australian aborigine was “nasty brutish and short”. They believed that any death of a person was caused by sorcery. If someone died, the witch doctor worked out how to find the perpetrators, so that anyone going about their daily business could be set upon and killed in revenge for a death of which they knew nothing, but they happened to be where the witch doctor had predicted the perpetrators would be. Civilization has changed all this, for what was a stone age culture

Banjo,
The following are quotes from your post:

Many that go to matches are amused by the comments of other spectators and indeed it seems to be a contest as to who can make the most outlandish or wittiest remark about a refs decision or linemans call.

It seems to be part of the game for players and spectators to do all they can to put their opponants off their game.

Why?

I had seen Goodes a few times in clips of AFL games. He always gave the same impression as Geoff Toovey & Benny Elias to me. They all came across as bullying thuggish types, who had high level of football ability. As such I disliked them all. Race obviously had nothing to do with this.

Without his ridiculous outburst at a spectator, I would never have known his name, & had no interest in him. Even after his bit of histrionics I would have quickly have forgotten this footballer if the idiots who select the Australian of the year had not have elevated him to an entirely undeserved prominence.

We can not blame Goodes for this bit of stupidity, but he could have refused, or not made such a production of it. A bit of humility would have engendered an entirely different feeling in AFL fans, & the general public towards him.

He has no one but himself to blame for the dislike most feel for him, his public persona is very easy to dislike.

A few points.
- The popular definition of "Racism" is incorrect.
- Children cannot be "Racist" and any child who attends school actually has to be de programmed of their incorrect views on "Racism" in their late teens lest they look like fools in the real world.
- "Racism" insofar as it exists at all is borne of experience, not ignorance, only extended contact and race mixing can produce the type of negative attitudes attributed to "Racists".
- Adam Goodes was in no way held back by "Racism" or the circumstances of his upbringing, as far as we know he had a normal working class family life in a rural town, as many of us did.

One more.
-The language and attitude of the Social Justice Warrior employed by Goodes has no currency among ordinary, working class people, it's an elitist affectation and you notice that only the upper castes and their media are supporting him.
The commentators whose audience (and therefore revenue base) is drawn from the working classes are the ones refusing to play along with the SJW narrative, Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones, Shane Warne, Jason Akermanis etc.
The reason is simple, working class Australians don't hold the same values as the upper castes and they look more to sporting figures and celebrities for inspiration that they do politicians and elitist media pundits.
Anti Racism and SJW shaming tactics don't work on people who are not even aware of the differences between races and the type of social status signalling employed by, say the Prime Minister, Eddie Maguire or Gillon McLachlan is meaningless to people who will never be admitted to those cliques or strata of society.
Football fans for the most part really do believe that differences are just skin deep and they don't understand why Adam Goodes is behaving like he's, "one of them" and not "one of us".

' Where the hell did she get the idea that it was OK to denigrate someone by calling them an ape?
A good example of monkey hear, monkey do.'

obviously Ponder from those holding to the idiotic evolution theory. Scientist did hold that the aboriginals were he missing link in revision 5508 in trying to justify the idiotic theory. Now they just add a billion years here or there to cover their ignorance and desperation.

Syd Hickman seems like a nice man, who has tried to write a fair article which is acceptably biased towards the aboriginal viewpoint. But there is contradictions in his logic, and he is making assertions that are all wrong.

First Syd, it is racist to accuse white Australians of racism. By doing so, you have "hurt, offended and humiliated" an entire group of people. If white people are fair game for negative racial stereotypes, then please explain why other races are not?

Australians are sick of being called racists by aborigines who are just as racist as they are. Pure blooded aborigines refer to part aborigines as "yeller fellers", and the racism displayed towards young part aboriginal children by pure bloods was one reason why successive state and federal governments, of both socialist and free market philosophies, "stole" aboriginal children. It was "a humanitarian obligation" to protect them (to quote the High Court of Australia).

White Australians all cheered on Evonne Goolagong, Kathy Freeman, and many other aboriginal sporting players, because they enjoyed seeing aboriginal people competing and winning. But Goodes played the aboriginal victim of white oppression card, projected racial hostility towards his white audiences, and now wonders why his white audience boos at him.

There is no cause for white Australians to be "sorry" about anything. If English people had not pioneered settlement in Australia, other races with much less humanity towards others would have done it. And even if Australia had become a black ruled country, it would have just become another dysfunctional black ruled state holding out the begging bowl to the rest of the world. And if you were not so reflexively racist towards white people, you would see that this statement is absolutely true.

Has it occurred to you, that the real reason why the self appointed aboriginal leaders are pushing for a racist constitutional recognition of the aboriginal race, is because they want to prevent any future Australian government from by passing their authority and giving aid and money to aboriginal communities directly, thus avoiding the very sticky fingers of the aboriginal leaders?

A hugely fit, rich, media trained, cosseted sports star looking for a next career picks on a soft target, an immature girl. What he did is verging on assault; this why the AFL has a "WHITE RIBBON" round.

Being mostly white, I have been called an ape, go figure. Maybe my insulters were colourblind!

Yes LEGO,
Adam Goodes biggest mistake has been to align himself with the parasite class rather than the people who until recently saw him as a sporting hero. Let's face it, Adam Goodes is basically a working class White feller except for the genes, what he is not and can never be is part of the Anglo elite, the very people with whom he's thrown in his lot. It's actually a pathetic spectacle to see a working class hero suckered into doing the bidding of the enemies of the Australian people and you'd have to assume he now realises why Aborigines balk at playing the "Tame Black" and now knows the price he's going to pay. There's no such thing as a free lunch, or as the Clash so memorably put it
"The men at the factory are old and cunning
You don't owe nothing, so boy get running
It's the best years of your life they want to steal"

He is long in the tooth for a young man's sport. He must be wondering, "What next?". The massive income and being feted are hard missed by some.

Fading women celebs strip off for PETA, or flash the 'vagygy' while getting out of the limo to get attention.

It is the supporting team players who have reason to beef, not this pampered, over-exposed prat who was hugely paid while they took the crumbs. Then there are the hundred and hundreds of players from juniors up, whose player subs and club incomes are plundered to contribute to the ridiculously high pays, promotions and everything else expended on the few elite players at the top.

This sagging drama queen would be more credible if he was at all grateful, thought of someone else for a minute and insisted on re-distributing some of his pay and other benefits among the players who set him up and make him look good on the field.

It is all, "Me, me, me" and people don't take a shine to that, especially when he is whining as well.

Sarah Two Dads has noticed him. Nek minit, a comfy Greens seat in the Senate?

Agree with MacReal:

Adam didn't know the age of the racist who was baiting him, and when he did, he went to some pains to not blame her, for her inculcated ignorance.

Booing may be normal in some circumstances, but not every time a particular player touches the ball! Stop making excuses for it!

This stuff is not only racist but personal and by the way whipped up by media personalities who should know better, particularly one personally derogatory spokesperson!

Who having coached young sportspersons to historic failure; should know better or not fail in the Journalist's obligation of verification before publication. But particularly in part to, quite deliberately give an entirely false or slanted representation of Adam's dealing with a young thirteen year old girl!

Who by the way has passed the age of reason and therefore should know right from wrong!

Even so the continually harping media personalities buying in uninvited, have no excuses for their patent ignorance and manifest bias; and should stop stirring the pot with their, them and us misrepresentations, and for reasons only associated with ratings and fundamentally feeding the fires of the dark underbelly of xenophobia and latent racism, identified by this crap.

Go burn some books why don't you!?

Sieg heil!
Rhrosty.

We know that you are not too bright Rhosty, but you have now shown yourself to be as obtuse as McReal.
Goodes pointed her out, so knew that she was a young girl. Her precise age did not matter, only her extreme youth, so your point is baseless in amelioration of Goodes’ behaviour. He reacted shamefully, particularly in his ridiculous "racist" call, and now the crowd is understandably reacting against him.
He needs to wake up to himself, and cease his aggravation of the situation. He is a grown-up, not a 13 year old schoolboy.

Here we have an Indigenous man who's dragged himself
out of poverty through force of character and a level of
sporting talent that has earned him two Brownlow Medals.
A man who now appears to be so distressed by the football
crowd's ugly behaviour directed at him, that he has taken
himself out of the arena, possibly for good.

Tony Wright writing in The Age, Saturday, August 1, 2015,
reminds us that Adam Goodes has played 365 games. No
one can call him inexperienced in judging the mood of a
crowd, or of being a coward.

Wright says that "Anyone who has been anywhere near the
growing mob that has been abusing Goodes in a manner
reserved for no other player, could tell that it more
than "smacks of racism."

Some people have offered the arguments that Goodes should
apologise to a 13 year-old girl for calling her out for
calling him an "ape" in the first place.

In fact, Wright reminds us that "Goodes immediately after
the incident, made clear his moral compass wasn't askew - he
called for the girl to be supported. His point was that a
part of society had let her down.

The NSW Premier has declared of Goodes treatment that
"some may argue that the line between good-natured and
malicious heckling can be fuzzy." Adding, "but there is
nothing fuzzy about this. The line has been crossed."

I agree. Being hounded every time Goodes went near a
football is the crux of this sorry story.

However there is no doubt that the AFL clubs have been
impressive in placing Goodes' welfare as a key priority.

They have called for the games' leaders to adopt a
national platform to set parameters against the most
racist talkback callers. Not to mention the rednecked
commentators who have rewritten history regarding
Goodes and the young girl at the MCG Collingwood game back
in 2013 or claim Goodes is booed because of the way he
plays.

Caroline Wilson tells us that
"Goodes is booed largely
because he has chosen to take a stand."

Much to some people's discomfort.

Foxy, Goodes is being booed because he's perceived to be gutless and to have tickets on himself, there are supposedly over 70 indigenous AFL players and he's the only one who gets this treatment. Indigenous players like Michael Long and Nicky Winmar are respected for their "stand" for their people but it's debatable just who Adam Goodes people are, he's a fallen working class hero who seemingly has ideas above his station.

Not because he has taken a stand, Foxy, but because he has taken the wrong stand.
He has made himself ridiculous with his nonsensical accusation of racism against the schoolgirl.
She said she did not know that it was racist, and did not intend it to be.
Of course it is not racist, except by a politically correct standard, which is, of course, invalid upon any sensible consideration.
Goodes ridiculous war dance is far more offensive. He is receiving no more than he deserves for his stupidity.

Leo,
Yes and you can add to that, Non Sydney Swans fans get the advantage of putting Goodes off his game, which is the whole point of sledging by players and making rude remarks by spectators.

Advantage for other teams. They only really care that their team wins.

Syd Hickman's article arises important issues related to the relationship between controversy about Adam Goodes and the requirement to improve the position of Australians with indigenous ancestry. He implies that labelling ordinary Australians 'bad' racists and advocating constitutional reform on the basis of 'good racism' does not help.

Some reasons to endorse Hickman's general theme are outline on my web-site at http://cpds.apana.org.au/Teams/Articles/aboriginal_advancement.htm#Hickman

While I believe that there is an element of racism in the booing of Goodes, I believe that it is certainly not the only factor. That there are many other aboriginal players that are not booed, would indicate that AG's case is special.

My experience of crowds is that they are often far from rational, and I guess that in this case a large portion of the crowd has obviously taken offense to the treatment of the 13 yr old girl, even though largely Goodes had no part in the over reaction of the stadium securit

Banjo, I am not the slightest bit interested in ball games at all. The only exceptions, might be ones where girls wear very short skirts and jump up and down a lot. I would not know who Adam Goodes even was before the current furore erupted.

But I do know that about 25 years ago, a visiting New Zealand cricket team had a captain who's last name was "Hadlee", and everywhere the poor bloke went in Australia, the spectators all chanted 'Hadlee's a wa-anker!" At the time, the news media thought the whole thing was a joke. Light hearted news articles appeared where smirking reporters pretended that the whole thing was not very nice. The queen of 'Sixty Minutes", (Jana Wendt) laughed on screen when she ended a program on the sledging and said "Isn't this terrible?"

Nobody got up on soap boxes screaming "racism!" Hadlee had done nothing to cause the spectators to act that way. It was just something that happened, it became a fashion, and wherever Hadlee played the crowd would begin to chant.

Cut to today, and involve an aboriginal, and everything is judged by a different standard. An aboriginal player over reacts to what is presumably routine racist sledging by a small section of spectators. He then denounces the entire white audience as racists and acts in a threatening way by throwing imaginary spears at them. Then he wonders why the entire crowd throws his own racist hostility back at him.

Ordinary Australian people have long admired aboriginal sporting people since a young girl with the very aboriginal name of Evonne Goolagong went up against the best in tennis and did very well. Same with Cathy Freeman. Some people sneered at Cathy for holding aloft an aboriginal flag after winning at the Olympics. I agree it was the wrong thing to do, but on another level it was absolutely the right thing to do. But if either Evonne or Cathy had sneered att heir own audiences and acted in threatening ways towards them, whatever respect for them their own admirers had would have quickly evaporated.

Some posters have touched on one of the problems about the entire Goodes saga - deference to "the mob".
No matter what a person's expertise in whatever they enjoy doing, there is no reason to let anybody but yourself attempt to denigrate their prowess.
What you do and how you do it is your choice, nobody else's. When you realise that the outcome lies with you, then you can look or listen to the decriers and think: "stuff 'em!"

Ponder, the fact that Goodes has reacted the way he has just proves that the people sledging him were right, he's a gutless show pony.
The reaction to this unimportant event from the so called parasite class, politicians, their journalists and sporting administration has just proven anti establishment Racists such as myself to be correct in our opinions on the whole stupid saga. We win again on both levels.

No matter who you are - I think if you were the one
being consistently targeted at
games for over a year - and were the only one being booed
on the field over and over again and comments like -
"Go back to the zoo!" and references about King Kong
were being made about you in the public arena. It would
have an effect on you. And brushing it aside as just being
"the norm," somehow doesn't wash.

What I don't understand is why don't his team mates simply
stop the game once the booing starts and walk off the field.
Sooner or later if the game is stopped the fans would get
the message that this is unacceptable behaviour.

Jay Of Melbourne [to Fox], "Goodes is being booed because he's perceived to be gutless and to have tickets on himself, there are supposedly over 70 indigenous AFL players and he's the only one who gets this treatment."

Pithy and spot on as usual!

General Comment
The treatment of the child minor by officials and the police, where she was publicly humiliated and summarily frog-marched off for hours of police interrogation without arrest and without a carer adult present was a crystal-clear exhibition of the very powerful influence of multicultural political correctness in this country.

There would be little doubt that the police and officials who indecently and shamefully flouted the rights of a child minor did do while consulting with and taking the direction of higher leadership and authority. Yet to date none of those secretive decision makers has had the decency to come forward to explain or to apologist for the unwarranted and brutal ill-treatment and very casual attitude to the child's rights and wellbeing.

People around the world wonder how officialdom, police and shamefully the Labor politicians themselves could turn a blind eye to the child sex trafficking in Rotherham and other centres in the UK. While the dismissive and shabby treatment of the child minor pointed out by AFL heavyweight Adam Goodes for public humiliation and official action was far lesser than the thousands of child sex rapes in the UK, there was that similar entrenched extreme political correctness that was at work in both circumstances.

Unlike the UK offences, the disgusting treatment of the Australian child minor, the violation of her rights, was committed in front of TV cameras and a very large crowd. Then the media and Left commentariat proceeded to denounce her after and to coldly and deliberately re-victimise her, all for sensationalism to draw a larger audience for advertisers.

tbc..

contd..

Imagine if the roles were reversed and it was a child of one of the legitimised 'victim' groups in Australia. The child minor at the AFL said she didn't realise the meaning that would be taken by the 'gutted'(!) Goodes. However there was no such misunderstanding of the 'White C(bleep)' that magistrates have excused indigenous for hurling at police and the public generally.

Of course there are many decent people who so not accept the treatment of that child minor and would like a judicial inquiry at minimum into it. It is outrageous that even now those senior decision-makers behind the scenes who directed and supported that action should be identified and held accountable for their actions.

What is preventing their identification, particularly the politicians and specifically the minister responsible for police who almost certainly would have been advised of the incident and progress as it happened?

Of course the incident, the rough justice,the aftermath and the cover-up will continue to rankle many, not just some, Australians. It is unfinished business. It is simply NOT GOOD enough.

Schoolgirl arrested for refusing to study with non-English pupils

October 2006

A teenage schoolgirl was arrested by police for racism after refusing to sit with a group of Asian students because most of them did not speak English.

Codie Stott's family claim she was forced to spend three-and-a-half hours in a police cell after she was reported by her teachers. The 14-year-old - who was released without charge - said it had been a simple matter of commonsense and accused the school and police of an over-the-top reaction. The incident happened in the same local education authority where a ten-year-old boy was prosecuted earlier this year for calling a schoolfriend racist names in the playground, a move branded by a judge "political correctness gone mad."

Codie was attending a GCSE science class at Harrop Fold High School in Worsley, Greater Manchester, when the incident happened. "She said I had to sit there with five Asian pupils," said Codie yesterday. "Only one could speak English, so she had to tell that one what to do so she could explain in their language.

According to Codie, the five - four boys and a girl - then began talking in a language she didn't understand, thought to be Urdu, so she went to speak to the teacher. "I said 'I'm not being funny, but can I change groups because I can't understand them?' But she started shouting and screaming, saying 'It's racist, you're going to get done by the police'."

A complaint was made to a police officer based full-time at the school, and more than a week after the incident on September 26 she was taken to Swinton police station and placed under arrest. "They told me to take my laces out of my shoes and remove my jewellery, and I had my fingerprints and photograph taken," said Codie. "It was awful." After questioning on suspicion of committing a section five racial public order offence, her mother Nicola says she was placed in a bare cell for three-and-a-half hours then released without charge.

Michael Gordon writing in The Age, Saturday, August 1, 2015:

"Goodes' problems began during the
Indigenous round in 2013 when, in the midst of a best-on-ground
performance, he was called an "ape" by a voice in the crowd and
Goodes pointed out the perpetrator, who turned out to be a 13
year old girl."

"The next day the girl told Channel 10 she had not meant to be
racist and that she had apologised to Goodes,
"When I called him an ape, he explained what ape
means for Indigenous people and he
said that he doesn't hate me and that I've got to learn from
my mistakes," she said."

Goodes responded with grace, insisting he placed no blame on the
girl and declaring, "The person who needs the most support now
is the little girl."

More than two years on, the story has become so twisted that
Goodes has somehow become the villain and is now being urged by
some, to apologise to the girl..."

Amazing stuff!

Gordon writes - Goodes' second "transgression" was to use
the platform afforded by being named Australian of the Year to
encourage a national conversation about racism, just as
Rosie Batty has used her award as a platform to confront the
scourge of domestic violence.

Then came the third strike, the "war
dance," performed after Goodes kicked a goal in this year's
Indigenous round that critics saw as aggressive and
confronting, yet was conceived as a celebration of Aboriginal
culture.

Gordon asks - whether the booing stops when Goodes returns
looms as a test of the national character. Will the tall-poppy
syndrome the disdain for authority and the portrayal of
Goodes as a divisive whinger by those who have never walked in
his shoes see it continue? Or will those other traits we like
to identify with prevail: an innate sense of fairness,
a generosity of spirit, an egalitarian ethos, and most of all,
a willingness to back the under-dog?

If they do, as Gordon states, something good will emerge from
Goodes' pain.

Gordon tells us that:

"I stand with Adam."

Me Too!

What you do not understand Foxy, is that taking the type of action that you advocate would escalate the problem. Goodes has done enough of that, himself. He does not need your politically correct advice, he needs advice from someone with a bit of sense

cont'd ...

I forgot to add a very important point that
Michael Gordon made:

The harshest critici9sm has come from white
conservatives - including shock jocks and columnists
who have never, like Adam Goodes, experienced the
legacy of the stolen generations or the racism that is
part of the daily experience of Indigenous Australians.

News Corp columnist Andrew Bolt was so bruised at being
accused of racial vilification on the ABC's Q&A last year
(an accusation that was promptly withdrawn with an apology)
that he could not face going to work the next day.
How could he cope being booed by thousands of people he did
not know, week-in, week-out?

An ugliness has been unleashed and is being felt by coaches
of the game who have appealed to fans not to vilify players
warning that any fans who boo Goodes from now on will be
showing they are bigots.

Hopefully this will have the right effect.

Foxy, you'll be shocked to learn that a lot of people have a big problem with Rosie Batty as well, she's another working class person who's unwisely thrown her lot in with the parasite class. We all agree that family violence is wrong, that it's a problem and that more could be done to prevent it, yet Ms Batty who in other circumstances may have been a powerful advocate for the victims has, like Goodes fallen in with the hated Social Justice Warriors.
Remember that Social Justice activism is all about saying words on the internet and has nothing to do with taking action in the real world, it's for that reason that such campaigns always generate a powerful backlash. Unlike the anonymous, insubstantial SJW activism that backlash manifests itself in real world actions and real life consequences, like booing at sports matches in this instance and real world bullying and assaults in others.
I predicted this years ago, that Social Justice activism would lead to profoundly negative consequences for ethnic and sexual minorities because it's purely an expression of White, inner urban midle class solidarity and has no real world base. I mean, my God, look at the havok caused by "Black lives matter" in the U.S, the murder and incarceration rate for Black males has actually spiked in NYC, Baltimore, Chicago and elsewhere since the whole sorry charade began.

You have no sense of proportion, do you, Foxy? How can Bolt, who faced a baseless accusation of racism in the poisonous atmosphere of the ABC, taking the following day off, be compared with Goodes, whose own self-centred nonsense caused him to be booed?
Bolt braved a hostile environment to present a rational point of view and was subjected to a gratuitous and baseless attack by an activist. Goodes turned the attendance in a benevolent sporting environment into a hostile mob , by actions flowing from his boneheaded false sense of entitlement.

As usual, the media went out of its way yesterday to seek out and interview the easily lead drones who wanted to "respect" Goodes, and wear shirts with No. 37 on them ( the shirts would have been paid for by the ever-burgeoning AFL with their- the drones' - ticket money; they were not 'for free' as the semi-literate reporter claimed).

No attempt to speak to the other 80% of paying fans who would have been their to watch the game, and to hell with Goodes, who had done everyone a service by staying away.

As for Goodes' rubbish talk about invaders at his Australian of the Year award, the ignorant person that he is, if it weren't for the invaders - who stupidly gave him the award - he would be spending most of his time running around with modified sticks, trying to kill something to eat, with real war dances and inter-tribal stoushes to participate in.

Who can believe that in Melbourne, Australia, a child minor could be humiliated in front of thousands, be compulsorily taken from her grandmother carer at a football ground - scared out of her wits, utterly confused and not knowing what is happening - in full view of the public and TV cameras, manhandled, then held for hours in an undisclosed area by the police (and others present, or cameras?), to be interrogated for hours and prevailed upon to sign statements to police admitting guilt?

Then along come the scurrilous media and the harpies of multicultural political correctness to re-victimise her, which is continuing.

While one can have some regard for the feelings of this wealthy, politically powerful first Grade footballer, any affront he took (his choice!) would be miniscule when compared with the serious violations of the child minor's rights, her carer's rights and the resultant harm done to both.

Dear Leo,

I usually like to maintain a balance in my views -
as much as I possibly can. I believe that Mr Bolt
got things outstandingly wrong and made many factual
errors - hence Judge Bromberg's decision went against Mr Bolt.

Anyway, regarding Adam Goodes?

I think that most Australians would take as self-evident
that vilifying any person on the grounds of race is a
dreadful and harmful act that not only reflects terribly
on the perpetrator, but is corrosive of our very community.
The attacks on Mr Goodes have now reached such a level
that they are reflecting poorly on our entire nation.

However, I am optimistic that decency and mutual respect
will prevail. It has to, for the good of all of us.

See you on another discussion.

Foxy, you find some egregious crap on the web to inflict on us.
Why do you not read comments from someone who knows what they are talking about, in relation to Goodes, like Dallas Scott, an Aboriginal?
Here is a sample: “As Adam walks out for his next game, before making his way onto that perfectly manicured stadium lawn, I suggest he take a deep, slow breath and reflect upon the reality of his life. Rather than having to emerge from the sheds for the ‘coloured people’, kept separate from the white folks playing beside him, he will run out after being supported by his entire team, not kept to the back. When he is thirsty, he doesn’t have to take a drink at the appropriately labelled drinking fountain, set aside for only folks with his racial identity, but rather will be served like a prince, with a special servant whose only job is to provide refreshments for the thirsty players, regardless of their skin colour or heritage. As he drives his brand new sports car to training, where he looks around at the other players arriving in their equally expensive vehicles and stops to realise he is paid just as much as them, if not more, he should perhaps pause a moment and wonder about whether he is fighting a war that has already been won, and instead of complaining from his position at the top, realise how those on the bottom rungs might be sick of hearing him whinging and would much rather he just got on with life.”
http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/

I really wonder how some of the real aboriginals who are facing tribal punishment (spearing) feel about Adam making a political point out of a mock dance. No difference from a player of British descent mimicking a gunshot. Regressives to blind to see the parallel.

Foxy,
Since you have posted here, on OLO, that we lock up asylum seekers because they have brown skin, and not because they are illegal entrants, it is not surprising that you hold the view that calling someone an ape is racist.

If someone is called an ass, horses ass, goat, dog or even mangy dog it cannot be conscrewed as racist so why would you suggest that being called an ape is racist. Only because it suits your argument. I believe that the person being called an ape is sporting a beard is far more likely.

I am a Swans fan in that I watch the TV game of theirs each week and I saw the incident and at first thought it must have been something shocking for Goodes to act the way he did in singling the girl out. Later I was surprised when it was disclosed what she said was such a mild comment, by the standards set at football games by spectators. Goodes obviously over reacted to the comment and it is also obvious that the vast majority of opposing teams fans think likewise, which is why they boo him. The booing has the added advantage that it may put him off his game and lead to a win against the Swans.

In no way are the fans of teams opposing the Swans acting racially. They are voicing disapproval of Goodes over reaction and getting an advantage for their team.

I still admire Goodes for his football ability but my respect for him as a person has diminished somewhat. Barry Halls copped heaps of abuse from opposing fans and I am not convinced that Goodes is any more sensitive than Halls.

I think the girl was referring to Good's
Hairiness,his big black beard
Without the beard I doubt whether she would have called him an ape.

That's what so annoys people that it was Good's hyper sensitive ideas about
racism that caused him to make a mountain out of a pimple. I grew up all my life in a town with aborigines
who have sung out and abused me and any other unforthunate white person
who happened to be passing by with racist remarks.
You never see white people complaining about the racial abuse to the media though.

They don't seem to realize that respect is earned. Adam Goods is seeing victimhood because that's what he wants to see.
And the whites realise this and resent his
Seeing racism because that was his interpretation of what the girl SaId not what she actually meant.

Fox, "I usually like to maintain a balance in my views"

That is just spin. You would say things like that.

Recently you outed yourself as providing 'professional' services to migrant advocacy groups -read as 'asylum-seekers'(sic) too- one might assume.

Not something you have volunteered before that could go some way towards explaining your incessant, intransigent sledging, criticism and blaming of Australians wherever you get an opportunity, for example as 'xenophobes', 'racists' and whatever.

In this thread as in many others in the past you are 'on message' yet again.

Dear Leo,

What I cited earlier was from The Age, Saturday 1st
August, 2015 as I stated. We get The Age regularly.
I enjoy their articles and Editorials and found the
ones dealing with Adam Goodes well reasoned and
intelligent.

You referred to them as "egregious crap," that I had
taken from the web and inflicted on you.

I do not inflict anything on anybody. You are under no
obligation to either read or respond to my posts.
You are entitled to your opinion - but not your facts.
And facts are what I prefer. I do not think that presenting
an opinion as facts or false labelling of people is a
good way to argue.

Thank You for the blog by Dallas Scott. I am familiar with
Scott and am pleased that you don't regard his blog as
"egregious crap."

Here are two more links that may be of interest that present
another view on the subject by a journalist who is also
an Aborigine - Amy McQuire:

http://newmatilda.com/2015/07/28/imaginary-spear-outrages-australia-slap-wrist-hit-and-run-death-black-child-doesnt

And -

http://newmatilda.com/2015/05/30/adam-goodes-displays-his-culture-during-indigenous-round-australia-implodes

Dear Banjo,

There are many "outmoded" words that are no longer acceptable to
most people. For example - "ni**er" referring to African negroes,
"boong," "King Kong, or "Ape" referring to Australian Aborigines,
"Dago" referring to Italians, "Wog" referring to migrants
living in Australia and so on.

And for Adam Goodes is entitled to hold a view different from
possibly yours. He has explained what being called an "ape"
means to Aboriginal people and the context in which historically
it has been used in his people's history. I respect his position.

I'm extremely curious about our indigenous peoples' culture. As person who has traveled to all continents on this earth, one aspect of the culture that I'm interested in is language. Usually it is easy to find out something about the local language, but in my own country it seems hard to learn much about them (~250?) other than a couple of dozen words and next to nothing about the language structure. I've asked questions at NAIDOC week events and always draw a blank. I understand there is going to be an attempt to resurrect on the indigenous languages

It seems that non-indigenous Australia bends over backwards to patronize indigenous people. On the Australia website (www.australia.com) it says "Aboriginal people of Australia have a rich, living culture stretching back at least 50,000 years." It shows a photo of what looks like an indigenous person's hand painting with a non-indigenous drawing implement on a non-indigenous derived material. What is meant by "living culture"? A very primitive static culture embellished with non-indigenous culture? Similar questions could be asked about what is said to be indigenous music don't you think?

Dear Roscop,

It is now possible to explore the past by means of a
large number of books, articles, films, novels, songs,
and paintings. Most State, National, and Local Libraries
have access to this material which can be obtained for
you. All you have to do is ask. Visiting the Australian
Museum in Canberra is also worthwhile.

The following website may be a good place to start on
the web:

http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/

The Australian has been surprisingly PC on this issue, labelling all those who criticise Goodes as “ignorant, cowardly and racist people” in an editorial. What is interesting is the overwhelming negative response in the ‘Comments’ to what Australia’s only national paper said. Considering The Australian has a pay wall, one might ponder the wisdom of alienating so many of their client base with a simplistic, group think, point of view one can get for free in the Fairfax press or the ABC.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/editorials/adam-goodes-the-ugly-treatment-of-a-proud-australian-hero/story-e6frg71x-1227465414407

Dear Edward,

I think that most responsible journalists and
newspaper editors want to get the message across -
that you can love or hate any sports figure, you
are entitled to your opinion of him but if you
see that what you are doing is hurting someone,
and hurting them deeply, than surely as a decent
human being you should stop doing what hurts.

Back in 2001, promoting round three of that year’s AFL season, the Sydney Swans aggressively encouraged crowds to boo Sydney’s opponents:

[Swans communications manager Stephen] Brassel said the “Boo a Roo” marketing slogan was necessary to entice Swans supporters to attend because the match was not part of the club’s membership package.

“It is not going to be the easiest gig we have ever managed because our members may have already decided to go away for the break; and the last thing we need is for the crowd to be in the low thousands,” he said.

“We are going to need all our marketing expertise to make this work, and what we are doing with the ‘Boo a Roo’ thing is capitalising on what has happened in the past. You only have to go back to last year when they (the Roos) played here (in Round 20). They were booed for the whole game.”

And that was considered a positive thing. Adam Goodes, by the way, played in both the round 20, 2000 and round three, 2001 matches. At least one indigenous player, North Melbourne’s Byron Pickett, would have been the target of Sydney’s crowd.
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/when_sydney_booed/

Jay Of Melbourne,

Good find.

Isn't it simply amazing how the management of the AFL are seemingly unaware of that?

Foxy,
Thanks for making your stand for Adam. I'm with you on that. Your comments were a good balance to the other commentators here.

As a long term fan of AFL football, I believe that Adam Goodes' record stands almost second to none. He will without doubt end up in the AFL Hall of Fame for his on field achievements. He has always shown himself to be a perfect gentleman off the field.

Those people here who've referred to him as a thug have no idea what they're talking about. After every AFL match, the umpires award Brownlow votes for the fairest and best players. Goodes has polled mountains of votes, and won two Brownlow medals, which is two more than players such as Leigh Matthews or Gary Ablett Snr, who are often listed amongst the greatest players of all time, but did have a slightly nasty streak to their game. (I say this with respect, as football is inherently a very physical game.)

It is interesting to now note from where is Adam receiving total support. He is getting this from his colleagues: all the players, all the coaches, all 18 of the clubs. They're his peers. They're the ones who know him and respect him.

Leo Lane says to you that Goodes needs advice from someone with a bit of sense. And would that be you, Leo? What advice would you give Adam to get the booing to stop? Or do you join with and encourage those who boo. Do you want it to continue? Goodes has put up with the booing for the best part of two years, and has taken it on the chin, without any reaction for most of that time.

I wrote my own piece for OLO back in 2013, which refers to the incident with Adam Goodes, the Collingwood fan, and the 'ape' comment.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=15053

Dear Dan,

Thank You for your kind words.

It would be good if something positive came out
of all this and the Geelong crowd would give
Adam Goodes a great reception on his return to
football.

It would show everyone that the football industry
as well as the wider community are heading in the
right direction to flush out this undesirable behaviour
in sport. It would also set a good example for
the kids.

The booing of Goodes started after he was made Australian of the year, perceived by many to be in consequence of his attack on a schoolgirl football fan, designating her “the face of racism”.
Goodes presents himself as anti-racist, while being a rabid racist himself. Like most on the left, when he describes what he hates, he describes his own racist attitude.
He does not have to look far for sensible advice, Dan S, here is a sample:
“Goodes should have used his position and community standing to build a better future for all of us. He didn't and he lost my respect as a consequence.
We hoped he would give us peace, instead he gave us his war dance.”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/only-adam-goodes-can-stop-the-booing/story-fnpug1jf-1227460775525

Foxy, you say that you aim to be well balanced, but read Age articles, and “found the ones dealing with Adam Goodes well reasoned and intelligent.”
Obviously, your mentality precludes you from ever being well balanced.

Dear Leo,

From your posts I can see that you are also inclined to
perceive facts selectively and to interpret them
accordingly. Therefore you Sir, are in no position to
make any comments on "balance."

You are of course, entitled to your opinion - and your choice
of "balanced," journalism.
As I am to mine. That does not make you right and me
wrong or vice-versa. We both interpret things in very
different ways, based on personal values and experiences.

I've written in the past on this forum that -
if the world consisted simply of some self-evident reality
that everyone perceived in exactly the same way, there
might be no disagreement among observers. But the truth of
the matter is that what we see in the world is not determined
by what exists "out there." Rather it is shaped by what our
past experience has prepared us to see and by what we
consciously or unconsciously want to see. Inevitably, then,
we will all be guilty of some measure of "bias," - the
tendency, often unconscious, to interpret facts according to
one's own values.

For me this one has now run
its course. I look forward to more robust discussions with you
in the future.

Have a nice day.

Since when has commercial media been "balanced"? The only thing in balance is the unanimous support for multiculturalism, immigration and anti racism in the traditional media, heck if the parliament doesn't reflect the views and opinions of real Australians then why should media corporations? The views expressed in Fairafax and Newscorp papers and the numerous TV, Radio and online news outlets are those of the globalist managerial classes, multiculturalism and anti racism are essential to the globalist commercial/consumer culture, these values don't exist among the myriad real world cultural groupings.

Foxy,
I’m guessing you are a woman for four reasons.
• Your nom de plume
• The way you carefully pre-type your posts elsewhere before cutting and pasting them onto the blog
• Your bleeding heart, hyper sensitive take on the issue.
• Ending a post with “have a nice day”

“…but if you see that what you are doing is hurting someone, and hurting them deeply, than surely as a decent human being you should stop doing what hurts.”

True but….
That only works when the status of the person in question is passive. However if they continue to act in a general manner which caused the original criticism then they are putting themselves in the spotlight and fully deserve whatever acclaim or derision ensues.

What kind of lopsided public forum of ideas and issues would we have to suffer if I could make comments about you, but in return you could not criticise me because, sob, my feelings would be hurt.

If you don’t like the heat then remove thyself from the kitchen.

Fox, "but if you see that what you are doing is hurting someone, and hurting them deeply, than surely as a decent human being you should stop doing what hurts"

Yet you and some others display no sensitivity where the violation of the 13yr old child minor's rights, privacy and wellbeing are concerned.

Why would an avowed feminist be dismissive of the rough justice, public humiliation and media violations of this girl child and her family?

As someone who provides 'professional services' to migrant advocate groups and is an enthusiastic advocate for the endless-diversity-Australia-has-to-have and critic of 'whites'(sic) from England -because Australians are 'Nullaboring'(?!) - you obviously don't really care about the rights of a 'white', even though she is a girl and child minor.

There is obviously a hierarchy of priorities where feminists such as yourself are concerned, especially where the competing, sometimes conflicting political correctness of multiculturalism and victim narratives of are concerned.

It must be confusing sometimes.

A visitor to Australia would never believe that a child could be treated so abominably and all of the while there is a Royal Commission into Child Abuse going on and the State and federal departments are being urged to set up special bureaucracies to handle domestic violence (and indigenous DV is a priority).

How is it in a country like Australia that the abusive treatment and denial of the rights of a 13yr old girl and her grandmother carer can be accepted and justified(?!). A large, exceedingly well paid professional footballer felt 'gutted' by the word 'ape' and that made the violation, rough treatment and public humiliation of a child all necessary, OK and even laudable?

No, it doesn't make it right at all. A public inquiry is warranted.

The situation can be reduced to this:
A grown man carries on like a big girl, and fans boo him.
He refuses to take any action to redeem his situation, and continues to be booed.
If he does not want to fix the situation, and continues his nonsense about “racism”,who cares?

<Is booing Adam Goodes racist?

RITA PANAHI

The fallacious notion that only a racist would boo Adam Goodes is both simplistic and senseless.

Anyone capable of critical thought can work out why Goodes polarises the community.

It’s all too easy to frame the debate in terms of race but it is neither accurate nor helpful in curbing unruly crowd behaviour.

This may come as a shock to some in the media and the AFL but decent folk don’t like being falsely portrayed as racists.

There is little doubt that part of the ongoing booing of Goodes is a backlash against the strident, finger-waggling of media hacks and club officials who want to dictate how people should behave and who they are allowed to like or dislike.

The Goodes booing brouhaha has exposed an enormous rift between the media and footy types and the rest of the population.

It’s hard to think of another example where the bulk of the media has so spectacularly missed the mark.

Not only have the views of the silent majority been misrepresented but decent Australians have been patronised and chastised for refusing to accept the assertion that only a racist would boo Goodes.

In yesterday’s Herald Sun poll 80 per cent of the more than 60,000 respondents said that the booing of Goodes was NOT racially motivated.>
[Herald Sun]

Dear Edward,

You are entitled to your opinion - however,
mine differs from yours and I am not alone.
The extra-ordinary outpouring of support for
Adam Goodes proves that huge numbers of
Australians (millions according to the Sydney
Morning Herald) understand that history matters and
that racism should not hide behind the outmoded calls
for sameness. That Indigenous people can express their
pride in their culture, heritage, in their difference.

Dear Leo,

Many people care.

According to the ABC and the Sydney Morning Herald,
The Age, and other newspaper sources. Of course
shock jocks like Alan Jones, columnists like Andrew Bolt,
Miranda Devine et al, and others of the Herald Sun - don't.
No surprses there coming from News Corp Ltd. Where the news is
limited.

We're told that Goodes' return follows an out-pouring of
support on and off the field at AFL matches over the week-end.
Melbourne players wore red, yellow and black arm bands to
represent the Aboriginal flag and the Western Bulldogs and
Richmond teams wore Indigenous Round jerseys.

The Swans entered the ground for their match against Adelaide
through a barrier that said " RESPECT" and the crowd stood to
applaud Goodes for a full minute at the seventh minute mark of
the 3rd Quarter - a reference to Goodes' jersey no. 37.

"It's incredible - it's incredibly humbling to be honest,"
Goodes said.

Indeed it is.

Goodes said” racism has a face last night, it was a 13-year-old girl” . He pursued his baseless assertion of racism. His performance overall has been shameful, alleviated slightly when he said,"It is not her fault.".
We have seen the face of the scourge of political correctness, and it is a 33 year old footballer, crying about being “gutted”, from being called an ape, by a schoolgirl. Those who have supported his assertion of “racism” are also shameful in their dishonesty, or their ignorance, if they really believe what they say.

Dear Leo,

You are entitled to your opinion.

But not your facts.

Racism is racism is racism. "Good" for one, 'Bad" for another. And racism is alive and well (and flourishing)in Australia.

I really respect and admire the young girl at the centre of all this hate. According to the media, I believe she spoke with Goodes the next day and not only apologised but entered into a dialogue about racism with Goodes. She showed her maturity by listening and learning about the damage and hurt words can do.

I admire and respect both Goodes and the young girl. I sincerely hope this has been a learning experience for both people concerned and for our nation.

Once something is said and someone hears those words, they can never be taken back.

The following website is worth a read:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/an-american-expat-explains-the-adam-goodes-controversy-and-australias-problem-with-racism-2015-7

Former Collingwood President Allan McAlister said he had no
problem with Aboriginal people "as long as they conduct
themselves like white people."

Apparently he's not the only one who still has this sort of
mentality in this country.

Some people, such as Rita, encourage this vilification by stating that that 'It's not all based in racism.' The reason why many people boo is up to them. You'd have to go an ask each one of them. True. Its not all racism. But Rita is playing with words. I don't think anyone in the AFL is saying that it's entirely racist. What they're saying is that there is a racist element. And it's ugly. I don't think even Rita would deny this.

Whatever the 'reasons', it would be better if the vilification stop. All of the players, including all of the aboriginal boys, are sensing that there is a racist element to at last some of the booing. It's gone on long enough.

Leo, Goodes had no control over the heavy handed treatment given to the young Collingwood fan that night two years ago. That wasn't his doing. We need to encourage the vilification to stop. It's ugly and not beneficial to the sport.

Goodes is back this week for the Geelong game. Those who want to continue booing Goodes until they run him out of the game are going to end looking pretty silly as the season continues.

One contemptible lefty method of lying is by implication.
For instance, the Hound, on another thread, did not say that coal powered power stations were financed by government funds. He challenged us to name one that was not, to imply that they all were.
Foxy cannot point out any fact, in my post, which is not soundly based, so implies it by her disingenuous assertion about not being entitled to “your own facts”. Being of the left, of course, dishonesty is the sine qua non of her approach.
In Shakespeare’s day, the words “left” and “sinister” were interchangeable. There seems no good reason for any change in this usage, which has nevertheless, occurred. I can only put it down to some effort by the left, like their recent attempts to deny that there was any such thing as “the left”, to imply that their views were somehow normal.

Fox,

Who the hell is that author, another you have Googled and post because his uninformed beliefs mirror your own. The Black Armband view of Australian history has been challenged and disproved many times before (and on here for you personally) but you still persist in ramming it down everyone's neck. This stuff is rot for instance,

"..the settlers who annexed Australia took a decidedly different approach. They culled the Aboriginals, killed them, sometimes by the thousands, stole their land, stole their livelihoods, and even stole their children. For 200 years after settlement, they subjugated the Aboriginals, denying them basic human rights (indeed, even outrightly denying that they were human at all until the mid-twentieth century), and relegating them to lives of impoverished insignificance."

What absolute tripe and you have the hide to presume to lecture many other posters on 'balance', claiming you are trying to 'educate' them.

You recently and at long last declared that you provide 'professional services' to migrant (and presumably asylum-seeker) advocacy.

Perhaps that goes some way towards explaining why you make a practice and a virtue out of diminishing and even decrying the contribution of Australia's early settlers, while always over-estimating and lauding the contribution of migrants. Migrants who apparently are without blemish, and immigration policy and multiculturalism that have no downside either. Excepting that you would throw open the gates in order to complete the 'endless-diversification-that-Australia-has-to-have' to cleanse it of the 'White' inheritance that your leftist cultural elitism (the left's self-loathing cultural cringe) finds so offensive and repugnant.

On a number of occasions you have also made oblique references to your role, past or present is uncertain, in 'educating' and 'informing' school children. Mercy!

Dan, there is a racist element right through society, particularly in the attitude of many coloured people to white people, and it is unlikely that it can be stopped, and particularly not by the performance of people like Goodes. He did not control security, but he pointed the kid out to them, like the big sook that he is, and made the ridiculous claim that it was racist to call him an ape.
The girl was simply barracking against an opposing player, and his race did not enter into it. She was surprised when she learned that the dunces regarded it as racist, and made it clear that it was not so intended by her.
You are very partisan, Dan, and backing a loser.
Otb, the vociferous Yank, whose link was posted by Foxy, does have a basis for his garbage in the Redfern speech by the Slimebucket. Previously known as Paul Keating, he dreamed up the name for someone else, but it fitted him so well that he has worn it ever since.
The Yank no doubt, alienated himself in his own society, and is now in the process of doing the same here with his racist attitude

I guess it is inevitable that on a public forum such
as this one there will be posters who cannot defend
their position with facts or reason and therefore
resort to attacking their opponents either through
labelling, straw man arguments, name calling,
offensive remarks, and anger.

Posters who are more interested in condemnation than in
explanation. Explanations seems tantamount to sympathizing and
excusing. This however all too easily leads onto the
questionable practice of stereotyping which can encourage
counter-stereotyping and the result is usually a complete
breakdown in communication.

Then of course there's also those who have a
decidedly jaundiced and unreal
mind-set about - "black-armband history," "multiculturalism,"
"asylum-seekers," et al.
They view any discussions that try to present
historical facts and government
policies of that time as - "sledging" Australia, and distorting
history, and being unfairly critical. Despite the fact that
this information is part and parcel of
this country's history and is available
in state, national, and local libraries.

I try to avoid reading their posts or responding to them.

But I suppose if the right buttons are pushed often enough
one needs to respond.

One needs to remember that these people -
hidden behind a computer screen are prepared to engage in
public virtual stonings - and diminish themselves in the
process.

That seems clear enough, Foxy, you have no facts to back your position, so settle for a general dissertation, denigrating those who disagree with you, with no valid basis for your assertions.
If you would like some well researched facts on aborigines, keith Windschuttle has written some excellent books. Let us know, when you have read them, what you have learnt.
You say: “One needs to remember that these people -
hidden behind a computer screen are prepared to engage in
public virtual stonings - and diminish themselves in the
process.”
How vacuous you are.

'Middle Australia has spoken. Why don’t we just move on? Have you ever been racially abused for the colour of your skin? No, but…He’s a flog! Do you know any indigenous people? No, but…he’s the racist for calling Australia ‘Invasion Day’. Oh okay. Does the Australian Flag represent you? Not really, but he is a privileged footballer who gets paid more than I do and therefore I can boo whoever I want damn it!

'The Australian Cricket team has about as much racial and ethnic diversity in its ranks as a Reclaim Australia rally. How is that relevant? Well because it represents Australia. Why are you being a sook? Melbourne is SO multicultural! Been to Brighton lately? That’s part of Melbourne, not much ethnic and racial diversity there. What about the Jews? Fair call. What are the chances of a mosque being built in Brighton? No, Warnie and Sam Newman would never allow it. Middle Australia has spoken.

'He’s a flog! Why can’t he just play footy and shut up about everything else? Does that make you feel uncomfortable? No, but…he’s an agitator. So we are just happy for indigenous players to perform like monkeys in a zoo? That’s rashist! You called the ape a monkey! No, the only monkeys I see are the ones that boo without thinking. Or are they sheep? There must be some correlation there. There’s safety and anonymity in numbers.

'Who are you to label me rashist ya flog?! My grandfather died in two world wars under that flag! Where’s the respect? Are you related to Ted Bullpit? Now you’re being a smart arse! No, I’m a wog on a blog trying to understand the true meaning of the word ‘flog’. Economical word that, like sook. Anything beyond one syllable just doesn’t get the message across. Bit like ‘Boo’ really. Is it primal or primitive?

'Look if ya don’t like it why don’t ya go back to where you came from? Golden Dawn Fraser said as much. Doesn’t she sit on a heap of prominent boards? Great Australian. You’re lucky Australia welcomed your parents back in the 50s. Really? Remember ‘Populate or Persish’? Maybe Australia just wanted cheap wog labour to make its already wealthy white population even wealthier? Ingrate, Wog Flog!

'Can you tell me why we haven’t had an indigenous coach at the highest level since Barry Cable and Polly Farmer back in the 70s and 80s? Well no, but it’s their own fault. If they acted more like white people they’d get into positions of power and influence. So that’s what it is? Still? That’s right! You can either fit in or f off! But he’s indigenous. They were here before us. That’s a myth! Didn’t they come from India or something? It’s not our fault that they brought a spear to a gunfight!! Why fight at all? Well how else were we supposed to settle the land? Negotiation might have been more effective. Compromise? Mutual respect? But they were savages! Who had the guns again?

'You’re nothing but a left wing lackey ya flog! You get your information from that Indian bloke Wally Ali. I think he has an Egyptian background actually and his name is Waleed Aly. Seems to make sense to me. Bloody Arabs stirring up trouble. Don’t you know they want Sharia Law in Australia. They’ll turn all our pubs into mosques if we don’t put our foot down! Do you know the difference between and Arab Muslims and Non-Arab Muslims?'

Flogs, Wogs, and Blogs
Phillip Dimitriadis

Dear Leo,

Historian Henry Reynolds had found himself being asked
questions by many people over many years, in all parts
of Australia. His acclaimed book, "Why Weren't We Told?"
is a frank account of his personal journey towards the
realisation that he, like generations of Australians,
grew up with a distorted and idealised version of the past.

I highly recommend this book to you. It's critical
reading on one of the most important debates in Australia
in the 21st century.

In order for a historian to study the past properly,
they have to go back
to what is called "primary sources" that is - the original
documents from which historians gather together the pieces
of information which they use to compile the truth about
the past.

Unfortunately, Keith Windschuttle's work is not based on
primary sources - it is based on
ideological blindness and inadequate research for which he
has been severely criticised.

Windschuttle's work is considered irrelevant by
reputable historians because unfortunately primary
sources are unknown to him - including -archival records,
books, theses, et al.

Anyway, before I go - I just want to add -
that using arguments about the booing of Adam Goodes like
"he's not being booed because of the colour of his skin"
but because he's on the opposing team is a disingenuous
misunderstanding of what's really going on. Age-old
catcalling the enemy is one thing, but this vilification is
the result of a dedicated, long-running campaign to focus
angry criticism upon this man. A thoughtful Indigenous
Leader, elegant player, and former Australian of the Year.
A campaign run in some of
the best-selling newspapers and most-read blogs in the
country. And its worked.

Heaps of Australians have read terrible criticism of Adam
Goodes by Andrew Bolt, Miranda Devine, and shock-jocks
on various radio programs.
Bolt has been at it since Goodes became
Australian of The Year and if you think the cumulative
effect of his columns is unrelated to this public attack,
then you simply don't understand the power of the mass
media.

Foxy, you have told an outright lie, or displayed abysmal ignorance:”Windschuttle's work is considered irrelevant by reputable historians because unfortunately primary sources are unknown to him - including -archival records,books, theses, et al.”
You know nothing about Windschuttle and his work, or you would not have made such a stupid assertion.
It was Windschuttle’s checking of primary sources which showed that Reynolds had misrepresented a quote
Henry Reynolds has admitted misquoting the colonial governor of Van Diemen's Land in a history of the Aboriginal-settler relations.
He also said of his books” "I presume in them there are no more mistakes because Keith would have found them ...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/29/1038386313878.html
Reynolds obviously respects Windschuttle’s work. Who are the “reputable historians” who say his work is irrelevant. Obviously you do not class Reynolds as reputable, even though your distorted views on Australian history you say have come from him. Being a lefty, you would inevitably find a dishonest historian, like Reynolds. Windschuttle’s comment on being informed that Reynolds had corrected the “mistake” was "I don't think it's a mistake of course but a conclusion of a sustained argument rather than a throwaway line."
You object to Andrew Bolt and Miranda Devine telling the truth about Goodes, but their readers do not hate the truth the way you do, and they both have a huge following.

Fox, "Adam Goodes...this vilification is the result of a dedicated, long-running campaign to focus angry criticism upon this man"

That is a bald-faced untruth, mischief-making and as usual, an attempt at developing a victim narrative that if not immediately challenged can be flogged endlessly as a leftist factoid.

There are seventy-one declared indigenous players in the First Grade. It is only Goodes, who coincidentally is the 'grandfather' well past the age where players are put to pasture and is showing the effects of injuries, who has suddenly found a political theatre on the field. Goodes is no stranger to finding the cameras. The new slant is his choice it seems.

The 'why' must focus on those presenting facts, not on some leftist fiction and sorry troublemaking to suit the prevailing, extreme political correctness that is systemic in Australia.

Fox, you would be without doubt the forum's Number 1 fan and promoter of victimhood and victim status. However the guvvy handouts, public appointments and freebies that flow from PC-legitimised victimhood, the whole gravy train, are coming under increasing scrutiny. Because the gravy train is a crushing burden on taxpayers and particularly on YOUNG working couples who are trying to save for a mortgage and to some day have a family of their own.

While some migrants might like guvvy hand-out entitlement when it applies to themselves, the great majority certainly do NOT support handouts that they must pay for as taxpayers and taxes are going up not down.

It is NOT their cultural experience to be donating outside of their immediate family obligations anyhow and they will be voting often and for a lifetime.

Similarly many indigenous have put their efforts into education and employment, have moved into middle class urban life and have no truck with your patronising, self-limiting victimhood.

For AFL supporters there is always the option of the round ball game that also provides an evening indoor competition that has a lot of appeal to students and young workers who spend too much time behind desks.

Dear Leo,

You should not make assumptions about people you do not
know. You have no way of knowing what I know or do not know.
And you divide people into "Left" and "Right," and can't
seem to fathom that there are people who are neutral.

Those are simply ignorant tactics used by very narrow-minded
people - with set extreme views. You have attacked from the
very beginning in this discussion. That is an immature
and emotional way to argue.

I feel sorry for you but I can see that you are out of your
comfort zone. All I can suggest is that if you want to know
the truth about the calibre of Keith Windschuttle's work
all you have to do is Google the subject. You obviously
have set views however whether you like it or not -
there are other views out there and the
they are not "lies" simply because you don't agree with them.
That is a "Bandwagon fallacy." (look it up).

I could give you quite a few websites - but I can't be bothered
knowing full well that you will dismiss them as "Lefty egregious
crap."

You stick with your Miranda Devines and Andrew Bolts, and
Keith Windschuttles. To you they represent "the truth."

I'm happy for you.

Virginia Trioli tells us that:

"The Adam Goods scandal - and it is a scandal shows us
how one of the truly great players and truly great
leaders of the game is being publicly traduced by a
baying, bigoted mob ...has so many people are appalled and
bewildered ...at how impotent the AFL seems to be in the
face of this truly outrageous behaviour."

Trioli points out that if anyone is truly in any doubt about
the genesis of this dreadful abuse of Goodes, then what rock
have they been living under?

And as we know this vilification has continued upon this man
run by some of the best-selling newspapers and most-read blogs
in the country. And guess what? as Trioli points out -
it's worked.

Many Australians have read the heavy, and sometimes really
terrible criticism of Goodes by Andrew Bolt in the Herald Sun,
and more lately Miranda Devine in the Telegraph and on various
radio programs in both cities. Bolt has been at it since
Goodes won Australian of the Year and as we know anyone who
thinks that this cumulative effect of his colums is unrelated
to this public attack, then they simply don't understand the power
of mass media.

The Adam Goodes saga is a big stain on the game and the AFL
knows it - but as Trioli asks - "Is the AFL big enough to cop
the financial loss that goes with meaning what they say?"

Fingers-crossed they are!

Of course, Foxy, you have no reputable historians to back your stupid lies about Windschuttle. Even the disreputable ones would decline to make fools of themselves, by backing ridiculous misinformation.
So you sink back into another baseless diatribe, objecting to the truth being told about Goodes and quoting Trioli, another lying lefty, who is so dishonest that she even denies that she is of the left. Referring to telling the truth about Goodes as “vilification” is devious nonsense.
Windschuttle’s scholarly work on primary sources also uncovered the pathetic nonsense in Lyndall Ryan’s history of Tasmania. Ryan said words to the effect:”We all make up numbers” and, “Even if my sources are not right, I stand by my conclusions.”
Typical lying lefty “historian”.

Dear Leo,

Why do you persist with your insults?

I suppose it takes less mental effort to
condemn -
than to think.

I did suggest to you earlier to Google the issue
of Keith Windschuttle's work. Perhaps you are incapable
of accepting opinions different to yours and don't want to know.

Anyway, here's two websites that
may help:

http://www.utas.edu.au/library/companion_to_tasmanian_history/F/Fabrication.htm

And -

http://www.themonthly.com.au/nation-reviewed-robert-manne-comment-keith-windschuttle-2256

Undoubtedly you will consider the websites as "Leftist crap."
(afterall only "Rightist crap" is acceptable to you).

Fox, "Trioli asks - 'Is the AFL big enough to cop the financial loss that goes with meaning what they say?'"

LOL, Trioli and you are bookends, remindiniscent of the Irish Godfather who made offers that even he couldn't understand.

You have no idea of what the Code does and has done for indigenous youth throughout Australia and nor apparently do you care.

There few things the educated, middle-class leftist elite who are feminism in Australia would enjoy more than disrupting their old enemy, what they regard as 'macho(sic) football'. Good Lord, the bent&bigoted old (even back then!) feminist dinos of the last Millenium must have wasted years of their lives gnawing on that old chestnut.

For goodness sakes go out and watch a game, with a dozen pack of ChupaChups to keep you out of trouble.

Make that, "LOL, Trioli and you are bookends, reminiscent of the Irish Godfather who made offers that even he couldn't understand".

Worth repeating and not just to correct the minor typo.

otb,

A couple of corrections:

1) If you insist on matching me with a book-end
(mind you I'm more bookish - than the book-end
type) Virginia Trioli is too short.

Peta Credlin is more my type.

2) Your football and feminism references are irrelevant
and so yesterday.

We actually have access to premium seats at both the MCG
and Etihad Stadium for the 2015 AFL Season.

3) As for your Irish Godfather?

I prefer the Chinese Godfather - he's the one that's
harder to understand.

Are you Okay?

You seemed to be suffering from Trollucinations in your
posts recently.

Stop eating those bad mushrooms.

Fox,

If you have 'access to premium seats' at the footy you should take up the offer some time and go to see what AFL is all about. Why rely on the word of someone who unprofessionally makes crazy faces after interviewing politicians?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr1R2o_yzXo

You might also direct some of your feverish Googling towards researching the valued contributions the AFL is continuing to make to the future of indigenous youth throughout Australia.

Big silence on that. Why?

You could then send some copied text and photos to educate 'crazy face' Trioli who doesn't seem to know much either about the good the AFL has done for indigenous. -Or of the wealthy, privileged lives of the elite players such as Adam Goodes. Although the well-paid 'celebrity' talking heads on the ABC probably do rub shoulders with the cosseted elite football knobs, champus flutes in hand, at their knees-ups (not a place for the 'also rans').

Maybe compare and contrast Goodes' income, lifestyle and glittering prizes with that of the 'lesser' mortals in AFL who are not treated as living deities and whose life after football is not so well assured and almost without any effort.

Unfortunately those starry, celebrity lifestyles with all of the adoring media and limelight cannot go on forever. AFL is a young man's game.

The real unfairness in AFL is the funneling of the $$ towards pay and benefits for elite players, while leaving the many who make the game what it is, to take any crumbs that might fall their way.

Not something you or Trioli (spell-check had Frivolity which was uncomfortably close) might be concerned about though.

Foxy, what are the insults? Is it pointing out lies?
I feel insulted every time you post a lie in your replies. It is an insult to my intelligence, but I do not whine about it.
From the first of your links: James Boyce says
“Windschuttle's faith in the comprehensiveness of the official documents and newspaper reports describing violence against Aborigines”
In what is he supposed to have faith? Stories made up by Lyndal Ryan, or Reynolds?
He adverted to the primary sources which you said Windschuttle had neglected, and then you give this link to a criticism of him by Boyce, for referring to primary sources.
John Dawson in Washout comments on Boyce’s asserting Windschuttle’s failings, in his criticism:
“Anticipation of the disclosure of examples of this litany of scholastic crimes mounts, then gets lost in the next wave of denunciations, then mounts again. The problem is that when a reader tries to put his finger on exactly what “gross oversights and mistakes” the denunciations denote, their identity proves to be mysteriously elusive. Sometimes opposite accusations cancel each other out.”
Washout is an assessment of the twenty essayists that Robert Manne assembled in Whitewash. It is also a sharp counter to the arguments they floated in their essays.
In essence, in Fabrication, Keith Windschuttle debunked two embarrassing academic positions. First, he proved that there had been no systematic slaughter of Aboriginal people by the white settlers in Tasmania, and that the claims of “genocide” were a concoction. Second, he showed that leading historians, in particular Henry Reynolds and Lyndall Ryan, had fabricated evidence regarding the extent of the Aboriginal deaths and the circumstances of the unfolding white–Aboriginal conflict between the 1820s and 1840s in Van Diemen’s Land.
https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2010/11/keeping-track-of-the-fabrications/

Dear Leo,

We shall have to agree to disagree on the subject
of Keith Windschuttle. You have your opinion.
I have mine. Lets leave it at that. There are other
opinions apart from our own on both sides. Where the
"lies" are is a matter of perception and judgement.

Bob Gould wrote on excellent article on Windschuttle
years ago. As did Gerard Henderson.

Both seem to agree that self-published -
"Keith Windschuttle is narrowly forensic. Serious history
matters should proceed on the balance of probabilities with the
maximum of evidence being presented - including documents,
written and oral history and eye-witness accounts. Historical
inquiry ought not to be like a court of law, in which a
simple onus of proof prevails, for one good reason: that by
the time history is being written the eyewitnesses are all
dead and can't be cross-examined.

Penelope Edmonds and Samuel Furphy (Eds) published -
"Rethinking Colonial Histories: New and Alternative Approaches."
Its a 231 page monograph and displays a wide variety of
approaches to the task of writing colonial history,
showcasing the strength of this field of
study in the History Dept, of the
University of Melbourne. It's worth getting hold of
and having a read.

Back to topic -

The news is great concerning Adam Goodes - the following website
explains:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/adam-goodes-returns-to-all-action-for-sydney-swans-against-geelong/story-fni5fan7-1227475328893

Foxy, let me get this straight, I've understood this for a long time but the casual reader might not.
Your position:
"The progressive historical narrative falls apart when forensically examined, therefore we ought not rely on science but rather on storytelling and "balance of probability".
Or put even more simply:
"The version of history to which I subscribe is based on story telling which cannot be contradicted by scientific analysis."

Or to put it another way "capital R" Reaction is based on advocacy, Progressivism is purely criticism and as we advise young Reactionaries and Racists these are two completely different things. There are no progressive arguments only progressive critique so it's pointless even engaging a progressive in conversation, they're speaking a different language.
This explains why a progressive seems so shameless even when promoting an obvious fiction or an outright falsehood.

Understood, Foxy. You have no facts to support your opinions, but like a typical lefty, will stand by them, as did Lyndall Ryan when the non-existence of her sources, in her history of Tasmania, was exposed.
We need regular reminders that the black armband presentation of Australian history is based on lefty lies with no basis in fact. I suppose you will have a baseless disagreement with that, too?
Anyway, the thread has served a purpose.

Dear Jay,

As far as Keith Windschuttle is concerned - I have nothing
further to add on the subject. I think it's been covered
quite well.
As far as the techniques involved in the writing of colonial
histories - you may want to try to get a
hold of the references cited earlier or other references
available in book-shops like Readings in Melbourne, or
the State Library of Victoria in the City. It may help clarify
things for you.

This discussion for me has truly run its course.

Dear Leo,

It has been a real challenge in debating someone
who exhibits an almost cult-like conviction and
a cocksure attitude about an argument based on
fallacies, misinformation, and ignorance.
Someone who relies on name-calling, and insults,
and are convinced that their view is the one-truth
and all others are misguided, even wicked.
Sociologists would have a field day.

Ah well, I've got to admit the more extreme the views
the more challenging I find them.
It would be quite boring after a
while if all the debates on this forum were entered into
in a completely dispassionate and well reasoned and
intelligent manner. The bat-shyte crazies do have a place.
After all - they do entertain us all.

A few more thoughts as I exit ...
(Left or Right - I haven't decided yet):

Talking about "Right-Wing Blowhards "and "Typical Lefties"...

An article in the Washington Post tells us that -
a new study out of Yale University confirms what
argumentative "Typical Lefties" have long known.
Offering reality based rebuttals to "Right Wing Blowhard"
lies only makes them cling to those lies even harder.

In essence schooling "Right-Wing Blowhards" makes them even
more stupid. If they insist on political views that belong
in Fantasyland - save your breath. You'll only make things
worse. There's plenty of other things to argue about.

It is the Football Season, after all.
Go Goodes!

Did you make that rubbish up, Foxy, or did you read an article of which you have no clear recollection?
Another lie from you by the implication that you are combating right wing lies. I have definitively advised you when I identified a lie from you, but you have located no lies in my assertions, because they are not there.
Goodes may not have escaped the consequences of his behaviour just yet. He was still booed when he touched the ball, unless he made a mistake, which was cheered.
Still no further news of the schoolgirl victim of his false “racism” allegation. She is the only concern, not the big-mouth sook.

Dear Leo,

Just to set the record straight.

Adam Goodes received a warm welcome from the
Geelong crowd - according to the Herald Sun
"Only a small pocket of people tried to stir
something unwarranted and unnecessary - especially
given the teams ran together in solidarity onto
the field. " Yet you try to make a big deal out of
this "pocket of people," despite the feelings on display of
the crowd majority. The crowd thundered and cheered as soon as
Adam Goodes stepped onto the field.

Shame on you.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/adam-goodes-returns-to-all-action-for-sydney-swans-against-geelong/story-fni5fan7-1227475328893

Sad- really.

Foxy, did you not read the comments below the article to which you linked?
Here is a selection:
"the evolution of crowd reaction to adam goodes has moved from boos to the sarcastic cheering of his mistakes. Baby steps
Goodes still getting booed. Proves the @afl is a joke of an organisation and proves my point you cant tell anyone what to do.
The commentators can ignore it or sugar coat it all they like but Goodes is still getting booed! The game is bigger than the individual.

Definitely some booing in the Geelong crowd tonight when Goodes touches the ball"

You are really averse to the truth,Foxy
"Shame on you."

Dear Leo,

Nice try - but it won't wash.

The Herald-Sun article makes it quite clear
that
the small "pocket of booers,"
did not represent Geelong as a whole.
And the majority of the audience showed the respect
that Adam Goodes deserved and had earned.
Read the entire article, and look at the images displayed.

And if you still believe that you're right.
Well, I have no control over that.
I can't help you any further - and there's nothing
more to be said.

Fox,

You really need to get to know a bit about football before sounding off. Use those offers you say you can claim and go see a match.

Otherwise you might be aware that 'grandfather' Goodes was easily outclassed and outplayed by a 20 yr old (who turned 20 on Sunday!) who has only a few games (four?) under his belt.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/jake-kolodjashnij-becomes-the-good-news-story-of-adam-goodes-night-20150809-giuw7x.html

Football is a young man's game. The 'mistakes' made by the older player like Goodes betray his declining physical ability and mental alertness, and loss of edge (and sometimes loss of 'bottle').

Goodes is very fortunate, one of the favoured few, to have been allowed to play longer than many others. Team management and coaches have to consider the probability of injury and slow recovery, and denial of opportunity to a replacement who is on his way up, not on the downslide.

One is left to wonder if it is the involuntary mental flinch of the anticipated coming tap on the shoulder and goodbye that is weighing so heavily on Goodes and making hims so sensitive that he is 'gutted' by a word from a 13yr old girl. A girl who all but the political few agree never intended him to take the interpretation, offence and hurt that he did. It was all in his mind not hers.

Goodes has to look to his future because the game could be over through one ill-timed play that a younger man would easily bounce back from and go looking for more.

Goodes should be counting his blessings from being given so many opportunities and having had such a long and fortunate career. While admittedly he had skills, there are many excellent players with equal skills who miss out.

Foxy, Goodes has a lot for which he should answer. He has not apologised for his baseless “face of racism” insult to the schoolgirl
Rita Panahi made a pertinent comment on those who support the nonsense of the fans being racist in booing Goodes:
“Those keen to portray fans as racist tend to be miserable self-loathing Leftists who see Australia as some backward, xenophobic corner of the world. Goodes being booed is just another reason to slam their country as racist. The truth is immaterial.”
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/the-goodes-the-bad-and-the-ugly/story-fni0fhh1-1227460762592
We will see what develops, but expect nothing sensible from a bonehead like Coodes

Soon to be the Swan's 'Yesterday Man'. No excuses. No whining. He had a 'goode' run while it lasted.

Adam Goodes is one of the truly great players and
truly great leaders of the game. I should know -
I've loved the game since I was a teen. And I've supported
my own team through thick and thin.

Adam Goodes is a
thoughtful Indigenous leader, an elegant player and
former Australian of the Year. He represents the game
beautifully - as his awards can testify.

However as we know - Goodes has been
publicly traduced by a baying, bigoted, mob.
But they now don't really matter - as the Geelong game
proved - where heaps of people showed their support.

Those who support Adam Goodes include - 18 Club Captains of
the Aussie Rules Teams. Premiers Mike Baird and Daniel Andrews,
Jessinta Campbell, Waleed Aly, James Packer, and millions of
Australians who were simply appalled by the behaviour of an
ignorant few.

On the other side there's - Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, Graham
Richardson, Jason Akermanis, Sam Newman, - to name just a few.

I know which side I stand with
and who I support -
with pride.

Still no link from Foxy for the alleged Washington Post article on a Yale University study on “right wing blowhard lies”.
Just because we know that it is garbage that she made up does not relieve her of the obligation to authenticate it, or come clean on her attempt at deception

<Rita Panahi made a pertinent comment on those who support the nonsense of the fans being racist in booing Goodes:
“Those keen to portray fans as racist tend to be miserable self-loathing Leftists who see Australia as some backward, xenophobic corner of the world. Goodes being booed is just another reason to slam their country as racist. The truth is immaterial.”>

Fair enough!

It takes considerable courage for Rita Panahi to speak her mind while knowing that in the extremely politically correct Oz of modern times she will be singled out and targeted for personal attack and vilification by the ruthless organised Left.

Fox, "However as we know - a 13yr old GIRL has been
publicly traduced by a baying, bigoted, Leftist mob."

There, I fixed that for you. Wherever did you get that quaint 'traduced' from though? LOL

Dear Leo,

I read your last post and seeing as you've
already made up your mind - there's no point
in any further discussion.

Thread purpose served.

Foxy, I did not ask for” further discussion”. I asked you to authenticate your assertion by a link, or confirm your failed attempt to deceive us.
We take your failure to provide a link as confirmation that your assertion is a lie.
As to:” On the other side there's - Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, Graham
Richardson, Jason Akermanis, Sam Newman, - to name just a few.” There is also millions of fair minded Australians, insulted at Goodes’ selection as Australian of the Year, after his baseless vilification of the schoolgirl, who called him an ape.

Dear Leo,

This is getting really tedious.

Everything that I have stated in this discussion
including the links provided has been brushed aside by
you as "leftist," or "garbage," or "lies." Why on
earth would I continue to get more of the same from you.
Yet you "assert" that there are "millions" of
"fair-minded Australians," who are insulted by Adam Goodes
selection as Australian of the Year, after his "baseless
vilification" of the school girl who called him an ape.
Yet you don't provide a link to substantiate your claim.
Pot/kettle - black.

The support for Adam Goodes is around 25 million from
fair-minded Australians. Where is you link for your claims..
Are we to assume your assertion is a lie?

Put your money where your mouth is.

Here's my link:

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4286254.htm

Foxy:Nowhere on the material to which you link is there any support for your statement that 25million Australians support Goodes. If there were such support, there would also be millions feeling insulted by his selection as Australian of the year. I simply mirrored your nonsense. I post a link when I put forward a statement of fact, not when I make a statement purely for effect. As you say, you are tedious, and I simply brought out how ridiculous your statement is. They are not all humourless lefties on this thread. There are people who are amused, at what a fool you make of yourself.
As to:” Everything that I have stated in this discussion including the links provided has been brushed aside by you as "leftist," or "garbage," or "lies."
I have not, as you stated, “brushed aside” your posts and links. I have spent hours scanning them and answering them. Where I have shown them to be garbage, it is not by mere assertion, but by careful presentation of reasons.Perusal of the material to which you linked in your last post, to ascertain that there was nothing relevant took time and effort.
I have the definite impression that one of your aims is to waste my time.

Leo,
Trying to boil it down, for you, the right or wrong in this is whether Adam Goodes' action was appropriate in signalling out an opposition fan who was yelling the word 'ape' from over the fence in his direction during the Collingwood / Sydney match in the AFL's Indigenous Round, 2013. Have I captured the nut of the problem?

Thanks, Dan. To sum it up for you, Goodes’ action was ill-natured and misconceived in his nonsensical perception of racism. He is a racist, and a self-centred bully. He did ask that the schoolgirl be left alone, so there may be potential for him to grow up, but he is not making the necessary effort.
If a big boob like him is “gutted” from being called an ape, how is a young girl affected by being publicly called “the face of racism”? There are a lot of weak minded people who support Goodes’ “racism” nonsense, making it most uncomfortable for her.

Dear Leo,

I read your description of me and my posts, as well as
your description of yourself and your posts.

You've used words such as "Tedious,"
"Waste of Your time," "Mirroring nonsense" "making a fool
of myself," and so on, to describe me and my posts.
Whereas you describe yourself as a careful presenter
of "reason," and "facts." And, it's - your links
that are statements of "fact."

I've taken everything you've stated on board.
And very, very much to heart.

I guess difficult as it may be - it's something I shall
have to learn to live with.

Regarding the accusations you make about Adam Goodes and
the thirteen-year old girl?

What Adam Goodes said was:

ADAM GOODES: "Racism has a face last night and, you know,
it was a 13-year-old girl but it's not her fault. She's 13,
she's still so innocent. I don't put any blame on her.
Unfortunately it's what she hears, the environment that
she's grown up in, that has made her think it's okay to
call people names...the person that needs the moral support
right now is the little girl..."

(Adam Goodes Press Conference. 25th May 2013).

So the bottom line is - are the accusations you and
others made about
Adam Goodes really true?

Of course they are.
After all -
you are all the presenters of statements of fact.
People such as yourself and Andrew Bolt et al,
do not make factual errors.

As for me?
Well I shall now go away.
I don't want to continue being tedious and upset you
any further - with my ridiculous statements
nor waste your time any longer. I shall leave you with
your careful presentation of reason.

I'm sure you'll continue to impress many people on this
forum.

It's obviously something I'm unable to do -
much to my shame.

Leo,
Thanks to Foxy for putting 'the face of racism' comment into context. My understanding was that the two in question, Goodes and the young fan, spoke to each other shortly after the incident. The girl apologised for an errant remark claiming she didn't realise it could be offensive. Goodes explained how and why the remark is offensive, and then asked that she be left alone. It seemed that they both acted in a reasonable and mature manner, and the episode could have been left in the past.

Is it acceptable that there should be 'ape' calls coming over the fence? I don't think so. If someone was going to protest against such an inflammatory remark, then Indigenous Round would be an appropriate time to do so.

In the history of the game, the AFL had been successful in recent decades in eradicating on field race based vilification in what is the professional players' work environment. In the last few years, the AFL have taken a stand against racism amongst the fans, ejecting people from stadia for verbal abuse against Goodes' teammate Buddy Franklin and others. As a responsible community leader, the AFL must take the initiative and help move the situation forward. (If the AFL sits on its hands and does nothing, things will inevitably degenerate.) Having done so, the game is now more inclusive, with higher participation rates amongst aboriginal players than ever before.

The 'ape' slur, though perhaps innocently intentioned on behalf of the Collingwood fan in question, is an offensive race based remark. It implies that the recipient is a lower life form and not worthy of the same level of participation. All things considered, Goodes has nothing to apologise for, except being a great player.

I think some of the crowd noise during the Perth match was intended to put the Swans off their game, as the Eagles and Swans are huge rivals. Yet in the wash up, it was an ugly scenario, and the AFL community are now saying, 'Enough!'

"My understanding was that the two in question, Goodes and the young fan, spoke to each other shortly after the incident"

What a huge power imbalance, utterly devoid of sensitivity and a shocking continuance of the denial of the rights of this minor.

How was that arranged and what arrangements were made for the child and her carer to receive professional support and advice prior?

Who in the hell imagined htat she should be put through that? The names of those responsible should be made public.

This is after the schoolgirl was humiliated in front of thousands, summarily marched off the field, held and subjected to police interrogation for hours without an adult carer or a legal representative present and encouraged to complete an admission of guilt.

Then you opine that, "It seemed that they both acted in a reasonable and mature manner, and the episode could have been left in the past".

How very magnanimous of you.

The handling of the whole sorry incident gave scant or NO consideration for the fact that she was a vulnerable child, a schoolgirl. Shameful!

Thanks, Foxy for acknowledging that there are two sides at least, to every situation.
Dan, your account is reasonable, and shows that the AFL caused much of the damage for which I was blaming Goodes.
I have tried to find what Goodes said about invasion day, particularly how often it was referenced by him.. Apparently , although he mentioned invasion day, he made positive remarks, based on the survival of indigenous culture. He said that it has survived for 40,000 years, which is debateable, and he said that all Australians should celebrate Australia Day.
He said” There are people out there thinking that today is a great day for Australia — well, it is.”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/opinion/those-who-boo-adam-goodes-have-the-courage-to-admit-youre-racist/story-e6frg7uo-1227463882737

Nevertheless, “racism” is a politically correct epithet for use against white people. Goodes is not backward in using it, and "ape" is not racist, so he is not completely in the clear. He could easily rectify his situation

Dear Leo,

Thank You also for the acknowledgements that you
have made

Foxy, I think in one of your posts, which I could not locate, so I may be mistaken, you said that we should be grateful that we all have such different opinions. It reminded me of an observation made by Jung, after he pointed out that Freud was in error in his concept of the unconscious mind (which Freud called the subconscious). He said that although Freud was in error, his work could be valuable in regard to the topic, for someone who could relate to it.
Jung then said that in human progress, error is as important as truth.
So in his view, as I understand it, whoever was in error in an interaction, such as ours, was as important to the progress of the participants, as the one propounding the truth.
This is one of the various reasons for which I do not take these interchanges seriously

Dear Leo,

Thanks for that.

I am grateful to have had this discussion with you.
I've learned a great deal from it.

Is it true that after interrogating the 13yr old over her understanding of the alleged slur, her sister was phoned and grilled as well?

What about the other members of the family?

Were they all lectured as well?

Onthebeach,
It was over two years ago, so my recollections are a bit sketchy. And it was a private conversation. But I think it was reported that the girl contacted Goodes, not the other way around.

Thanks, Foxy, we are all group primates and continually seek to join a group Our basic aim then, whether consciously or not, is to gain acceptance and approval of the group. You were a substantive and responsive member of the forum, and, despite the difficulties, made a genuine effort, from which you derived at least some gain. Life is trial and error, and there is a group somewhere, that will happily give you the approval you merit, even if this is not the one.

Dear Leo,

I've always been somewhat of a loner.
Not a joiner. And also a dreamer. We need
to dream ; souring imagination is the glue
that keeps our soul from shattering under
the impact of a prosaic world. But dreaming
can be a tricky business and, if we're not careful,
can disappear altogether from our lives.

I came across something that I think would be an
appropriate way to end finally this discussion.
It was written
by someone called Digby Wolfe entitled - "Growing Pains."

"Here's to the kids who are different;
the kids who don't always get A's,
the kids who have ears
twice the size of their peers', or noses that go
on for days.
Here's to the kids who
are different, the
kids who are just
out of step,
the kids they all
tease, who have
cuts on their knees
and whose sneakers
are constantly wet.
Here's to the kids who
are different, the kids
with a mischievous
streak,
for when they have grown,
as history has shown,
it's their difference that makes
them unique."

Cheers.

Foxy, thanks for that.
We are off topic so will be brief.
I read Jung for years, with intense interest, but gleaned nothing practical, which I could apply to my life.
I then became aware of the Meyers Briggs classification of temperament, available at no charge on a number of web-sites.
I found my type to be INTJ, and looked for more information. I found a blog, which, I was informed, was set up, not for dissemination of information on this temperament, but for communication between people of this temperament, Any topic was covered, from politics, to the most suitable temperament for a partner. I found it a great blog, and forget how it finally dissipated.
If you are interested, the site of the personality assessment I used is: http://www.humanmetrics.com/#Jtype

Dear Leo,

Thanks for that - I'm really not interested
in any more "personality tests."
My husband and I worked and lived in
Los Angeles for close to ten years. I worked at
the University of Southern California and
my husband (an architect) worked for architectural
firms. Having
experienced all sorts of "motivational gurus,"
and people who bought all the books, took all
the courses, listened to all the tapes, I became
familiar with all the jargon, and the symptoms.

Friends of ours payed and prayed and hoped they'll
be saved by any of the hundreds at latter-day profits...
er, prophets, who peddle hope for cash.

Anyway, Thank You for your good intentions.

See you on another discussion

Thanks, Foxy, Understood, see you another thread .
I find typology useful, but you have reminded me of the downside. I had a second reminder amongst the junk-mail today, which included an invitation to take a personality test, from the Church of Scientology.

Leo Lane Fri. 31 july
Lego Sat 1 Aug. Thanks for these comments.
The whole racism rant really is wearing thin. Adam Goodes a 'proud aboriginal man battling the evil force of racism'. For goodness sake, I recall many an occasion being called a 'white c..'. Once as a seven year old with my little sister,by an adult woman, and many more times up until my late teens. Some of the accusers nearly as white as me. That was oppressing and depressing.
Im all for getting rid of racism, but to be honest, even today I see more racist acts and abuse against non indigenous, particularly in WA. In saying that I have worked with many aboriginals, made very good friends also. It appears those on benefits receiving all the government handouts and over compensations are the more hateful, instilled with racism. (Enjoy intimidating especially in groups) This backward attitude is clearly being passed down, worsening the existing sub-culture in many towns and some Perth suburbs.
Some of these do-gooders with so much to say, should get out of their little offices and spend some quality time in these towns with the people they claim to represent. Only then will they be qualified to comment.