"And what we need in Australia is to start an intelligent and compassionate conversation about Islam that will prove this is the case."

I hope you are right, but I am not going to hold my breath.

David

"the invasion of Australia by Asians is a fiction rather than fact."

Fact: two thirds of all recent immigrants are Asian.
Use the government's reporting facility to get informed:
http://www.immi.gov.au/settlement/srf

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/2f762f95845417aeca25706c00834efa/666a320ed7736d32ca2570ec000bf8f9!OpenDocument

"Between 1981 and 2000 the Asian-born population of Australia grew steadily, from 276,000 to over a million"

Asian-born *quadrulped*.
In ONE generation.
And that's just immigrants, not including Australian-born Asians.

It may take a while, but current trends would *inevitably* lead to a majority-Asian population.
Not strictly an "invasion", but certainly a "takeover".

9/11 was just the icing on an ugly cake.

There were thousands of other incidents all over the world (not just the West-meddling Middle East) for decades.
Wherever there are Muslims, whether majority or minority, there's trouble.

FGM may not be "Islamic" per se, but *who else* in Australia is doing it?

People of other religions also have dietary restrictions, but never expected *all* food products sold to the *entire* population to be labelled.
Nor expected franchise chains like KFC or McDonald's to change the menu in "their" neighbourhood.
They bought from specialist stores.

"two Australian women are killed by domestic violence each week"

And Muslims are the gold medallists in misogyny, hypocrite.

As an agnostic and homosexual, I would never receive "tolerance" and "inclusion" by Muslims.
If they had their way, I would be KILLED.

Sorry, but no. They are not and never will be part of my civilisation.

One only needs to look to western parts of Sydney, France and England to realise that muslim immigration has not been a success. The results are quite terrifying.

We really do need to turn back the boats if we would save what's left of multicultural Australia.

People born here, wherever their ancestral homeland are by definition ,Australian; and given seeming Chinese/north Korean/Indonesian human rights abuses and transgressions; many Asian Australians would be the first to volunteer to go in there; in the advent of an armed conflict with any hostile asian nation?

I mean one doesn't need to be white and Anglo/Irish to love this wide brown land and all she stands for!

How many of these flag waving shiite stirring nationalists, would volunteer for military service in the same circumstances?

How many do so now? And would inviting them to do so invite another Hoddle street massacre?

I mean you don't have to be a gun loving nut job to take part in these race hate rallies, but it surely has to help?

Hitler was good at the stirring hate speech stuff but always had others do the ethnic cleansing dirty work for him!

Listen up dump korf, ve have vays of makink you enchoy yourzelf!

But then pollies have always been able to put others in harm's way rather than leave the safety of the nuclear hardened bunker haven't they? More tea anyone?
Rhrosty.

as usual the author ignores that the most violence and intolerant at the meetings were the socialist. I suppose murdering babies is nothing to them so belting into police and spitting on those who oppose their bigotted views just comes natural. Personally I would rather see them and their supporters leave than the Islamist.

Islam is NOT a race, so how does this woman think people are "ignorant" for saying saying so? Islam is a global organization intent on overpowering the West. It is NOT a religion of peace. It is the the single biggest threat to world peace to ever raise its ugly head. It uses immigration - with the help of Western politicans - as its main means of attack. Each new
Muslim born in the West, or imported, is another nail in the coffin of democracy and Western culture. We don't need to worry about Islamic murderers in the Middle East; we have to worry about the sleepers here, just waiting as their numbers grow, and enough people believe their lies.

So here we have a lady who proclaims her loyalty to a Muslim country, that actually bombs it's own minorities, lecturing us on human rights. Obviously Islam is the religion of the ruthless.

It is about time we reclaimed our country from the stupidity that was multiculturalism, always only a way to pay leaders of ethnic communities for their loyalty to the left while wasting billions, & get back to just one Australia.

No dual citizenship should be permitted. With that gone, we will perhaps find only those committed to Australia & it's values applying for citizenship.

Labelling people in a way that stereotypes them in some political correct way does not really help anything.
It only makes things worse, and turns the majority into irrational crazy people.

Pauline Hanson's quote that "she is not targeting Muslims but targeting the ideology what Islam stands for" is valid enough.

Whether Pauline or the people attending Reclaim Australia type rallies are actually racist or not isn't the issue.

People who use the 'racist card' whether or not its valid are trying to block discussion of the actual issues.

IMO when the media focuses on Islamic extremists running wild all across the planet chopping peoples heads off then its only reasonable that an increase in Islamic population, culture and influence in our country would be treated as a concern by the existing population.
Islamaphobia on some level is at least reasonable to expect and it need not be racist.

Whether or not I do or don't agree with what is said by these people I most certainly respect the courage they show standing up to discuss these issues in the face of today's difficult politically correct world.

Rather than attack the motivations of the people making speeches and attending the rally's why don't you argue the message?

If you want Sharia law, then why don't you just advocate it?
If you want to remove Christmas, Australia Day, Anzac Day and remove Australians rights and their right to free speech, why not just make a forum piece arguing for that?
If you think pride in the Australian flag and anthems a bad thing why not just say so?

??

If you have a better argument than that which others present then why not just present your own argument if you think its meritorious in its own right?
Why attack others in the first place?

IMO, Your 'attacks upon others' based argument is really an effort THAT USES racism and political correctness AS A TOOL to both dissuade people from standing up for what they believe in and to dissuade anyone else from listening.

ttbn

"Islam is NOT a race, so how does this woman think people are "ignorant" for saying saying so?"

Agreed, Islam isn't a race it's a ideology, it's also strange that the author seems to think that religions aren't ideologies when she claims that---

"Islam is usually viewed as an ideology rather than a religion."

Of course it's an ideology.

If Islam is essentially a tolerant and peaceful faith, why are majority Muslim societies such as they are, usually violent, oppressive and technologically backward.

I would like to know which particular multicultural Australia the author seeks to 'reclaim'. Would she like to reclaim the Australia that my parents migrated to in the sixties, where migrants of all races and cultures were ALL expected to 'integrate' and leave behind those which were unAustralian? Or would she prefer the earlier version of multicultural Australia - with its white Australia policy?

I too am sick of the race card being misused. Race and culture and religion are NOT the same.

Personally, I don't have a problem with any of the demands the author attributes to Reclaim Australia. But, unlike most Reclaim Australia supporters, I would like to see the removal of all religious interventions - including Christianity.

We all need public and secular schools and hospitals - we DO NOT need religion, full stop. It is a personal choice.

The laws of Australia should apply to all without favour or exception.

I have just begun to read the book by Klaus
Neumann, "Across The Seas: Australia's
Response to Refugees A History."

It promises to be an interesting read.

Arnold Zable in the book's Foreword turns the
spotlight back on the present where he points
out that in 2015, at the time of writing asylum seekers
who have in recent years sought protection in
Australia are incarcerated both in onshore and
offshore detention centres. Many others remain in limbo
out in the community on various types of temporary
visas. The centres on Nauru and Manus Island are
hellholes, the inmates' agony compounded by isolation.
Out of sight, out of mind is the name of the game.

Journalists are not permitted. Information is hard to
come by. Disturbing claims of sexual abuse, beatings,
self-harm and attempted suicides are denied, but
proven true on the rare occasions when independent
investigators are allowed access.

And yet, Zable tell us to -

"Take, for instance, Melbourne, the great cosmopolitan city
in which the book is published. In this sprawling
metropolis the impact of past policy is made visible.
We witness the creativity and energy of the diverse and
varied communities that have made their way to our shores
and been allowed to settle, whatever the reason. We see
the impact of the many cultures whose migration stories the
author Neumann has documented. We see, for instance, how within
just a few years the local Hazara community has helped transform
the city of Dandenong into a thriving metropolis."

Zable agrees with Neumann in his conclusion, "there is nothing
self-evident or natural about Australia's current response to
asylum seekers and refugees." He hopes instead to have
encouraged the reader "to imagine alternative futures," which
"take into account Australia's capacity to assist people
in need of a new home, its responsibility as a regional
power, its legal obligations as a member of an international
community, and, most importantly, the precarious circumstances
of the men, women, and children who are seeking Australia's
protection."

cont'd ...

In Australia the public debates over refugee
policy and intense and vigorously contested.
Many claims and assertions are made about past
responses to refugees as being better or worse
than contemporary responses, or as being better
or worse when compared to those of other
countries. While Australia may have officially
abandoned the White Australia policy by the 1970s,
the debates over the "suitability" of
particular groups for re-settlement have never
ceased.

In 1947 the first source for immigrants remained the
British Isles. "Non-White" immigrants included
not only Chinese and Japanese, but also Jews and
Southern Europeans. As these groups became accepted as
part of White Australia, other groups were placed beyond
the boundaries of acceptability.

It is as Zable tells us "a great irony that in recent
years, Lebanese and Vietnamese Australians could
demonstrate their belonging to White Australia "not
least by joining the chorus that demanded the exclusion of
Hazara, Iranian and Tamil "boat people."

It will be interesting to see who will make it to
the exclusion lists after the Muslims in the future of
this country. Interesting to look into the future's
crystal ball and see the Australian story in the context
of global refugee movements, and international
responses to them compared to our own.

Yes, Alice, “cultural racism” is a concept with even less validity than the label “racism”, made up to turn telling the truth about a non-white race into a transgression. You are part of the scourge of political correctness which afflicts our society. Who are the “scholars”, to which you refer, who fabricate this nonsense?
You have overlooked the greatest priority, which is for Australia to cease accepting muslim immigrants, which is the only genuine solution to the extension of the existing problem. The next step is to promote understanding among those already here, as to the effort needed to fit into the society they have chosen to join and to relinquish the idea that their society can be extended to Australia. They have left it behind, and need to support our society, or leave it.

Reclaim Australia is finished as far as the "far right" is concerned, they are anti Australian and especially anti Anti Australian Nationalism, the UPF and likeminded groups continue to grow and having used the issue of Islam to draw out the Left they're now girding themselves for war with "progressives", their real and original target.

Multiculturalism is one of those terms that tends to mean different things to different people. I support mainstream multiculturalism, for example as defined here:

https://www.dss.gov.au/our-responsibilities/settlement-and-multicultural-affairs/programs-policy/a-multicultural-australia/national-agenda-for-a-multicultural-australia/what-is-multiculturalism

Note this definition is quite nuanced and qualified. People can express their cultural heritage and identify “within carefully defined limits”; all Australians should “have an overriding and unifying commitment to Australia” and “accept the basic structures and principles of Australian society”.

These qualifications and nuances tend to be ignored by those on the extremes of the debate who portray multiculturalism as giving immigrants free rein to import beliefs and practices the mainstream finds unacceptable, and privileging immigrant and minority culture.

I agree with some of this article’s points about the prejudice and misinformation spouted by Reclaim Australia and the like. But while these extremists are easy to dismiss, Alice would make a much more useful contribution to the debate if she had also dealt with well-founded concerns about Islamic extremism, and over whether the practices of some Muslims are indeed consistent with “the basic structures and principles of Australian society”. For example, not everyone who is concerned about women wearing the burka, or the compatibility of Sharia and secular law, is a bigot.

Multiculturalism is not a free pass allowing minorities to escape question or criticism.

It is true that the risk of being attacked by terrorists is greatly exaggerated by some in politics and the media, and also that the great majority of victims of Islamist terrorism are themselves Muslims. But it is also true that the great majority of Australians who have died in terrorist attacks in the past 20 years were killed by radical Islamists, including 88 in the first Bali bombing and four in the second; 10 in 9/11; three in the Jakarta Marriot bombings, one in the London bombings, one on the Nairobi mall attack, and two in Sydney

And to blame the west for Islamic terrorism is crass ideological nonsense, though I agree its actions have sometimes fuelled the fires.

I don't agree with the inhumane conditions in the detention centres, (this needs to be fixed) and I accept that the West has played a part in creating wars and unrest in foreign countries. (This needs to stop).

But that said, a line has to be drawn in the sand.
If you wish to come here for whatever reason, be that legal immigration or as a refugee you need to embrace this country and its culture that you are wanting to come into.

Don't try to change this country into where you have come from because we may not wish for this to happen.

If your existing culture is going to be a problem then you need to leave that culture behind before you get on the boat.

ITS YOUR JOB TO INTEGRATE WHERE YOU ARE COMING INTO, NOT OUR JOB TO INTEGRATE INTO WHERE YOU CAME FROM.

I don't care what your reasons are for coming here.
If you cant embrace our country and our culture then you don't belong here, and no amount of political correct rhetoric from the United Nations or anyone else screaming humanitarianism will change my opinion.

I'm not in-compassionate towards the plight of others, but I won't let the wants and needs of foreigners be placed above the integrity of our own people or culture.

Some people forget that freedom isn't free.
For many of us living here, our families fought for it.
And we should not allow their sacrifices to be tarnished.

Id like to know how many of the people who support the multiculturalism view had family who fought for this country and I'd like those stats compared to the so-called racist Australians who support a nationalistic type view.

I'd be willing to bet that the majority of so-called racist Australians consist of Australians who have a long family history as citizens of the country and whose family members fought in defense of this country.

Whereas the majority of people who support multiculturalism are people who come from families who immigrated after Wars and who never fought for anything here except themselves.

The terrorism we see is just a continuation of the war that has been
conducted against non-moslems for the last 1400 years.

The usual Pauline Hanson bashers are present.
"We will be overrun by Asians".
Travel by train through Eastwood and Epping tell me she is wrong.

No Asians are threatening us with submit or die.
No Asians are going to anywhere to take part in a war.
No Buddists are threatening us or anyone else.
No Hindus are threatening us either.
There is one religion that is threatening everyone.
This is why Alice Asia found it necessary to write her article.
If it was not so she would not have written it.

As far as calling racism, well that is an easy shot and demonstrates
how weak the argument is when put.
There is not a great risk of being killed by Islamists, insurance
companies are not considering it, yet.
A car bomb or two may change that.
Yes Hasbeen, multiculturism has been a failure but it is politically
incorrect to say so.

There is only one way to stop this "invasion", add moslems to the
undesirable migrant category, deport as many as possible, ban the
Koran as a hate publication that advocates genocide of the Jews and
infidels. Ban the use of the Koran in naturalisation ceremonies and
its use in the courts as it has a chapter permitting lying to infidels.
Ban the construction of Mosques and prayer halls.
Banning moslems will reduce the burden on the state medical and
disability services and special education costs. Moslems have a
13% greater incidence of genetic defects than other populations.

All very painful for many but waffling around with this problem will
not safeguard the country.

It boils down to this:
Do you want Australia to look like Paris, and other cities in France
complete with Police and Fire brigade no go areas ?
Do you want Sharia Law in Australia ?
Think that is silly ? In London there are Sharia areas and there are
official Sharia Courts in the UK !
So who is laughing now ?

I think that if the price for our freedom was paid by our ancestors, what are we paying to maintain it? I disagree with your views on integration for this reason, Armchair. Freedom can only be won by each individual, not by ancestors, not by culture, not by ideology.

For example, our ancestors taught their children to be God-fearing, charitable citizens who work hard and have self discipline.
Today, our children are taught to despise authority, trust no-one, take every government benefit available and be selfish and in debt.

For example, our ancestors taught their sons to show respect for women, to doff their hat, to rise when a lady walked into the room and to provide for and care for her so that she did not have to.
Today, our sons are taught to treat women like equals, to abuse them, to hit them, take advantage of them and leave them at the drop of a hat with 3 small children and noone to care for their needs.

For example, our ancestors taught their daughters to be modest, to have integrity and to be kind and well-spoken. Our daughters were taught skills to run a house, to care for children and to sacrifice.
Today, our daughters are taught to "flaunt it", to have vanity and have such a pathetic vocabulary that they have to swear every second word. They aren't taught to run a house, but to be selfish and drink all the time.

If Islam is truly a threat to "Australia", it would on be because "Australia" has already lost itself. We are doomed to be a note in history unless our cultural identity is strong enough to maintain itself, which it isn't. For example ancient Babylon, Assyria, Persia. Not Greece, Israel or Egypt.

A Phobia is if the fear is without basis. The only Phobia I can detect is a phobia against the totally reasonable fear that Islamists want to kill us.

Not sure how that translates maybe Phronemophobia or Hereiophobia or Christophobia but Islamists do want to be very unpleasant and decent people understand this; ergo the non-Poseur class is not phobic.

Alice Aslan also tries, as the "progressives" all do to link Anti Islam sentiment to the Coalition position on terrorism and blame the reaction against Islam on the "toxic" discourse on dealing with what's euphemistically described as "extremism". This is blatantly untrue, if anyone's working to prop up capitalism and "Team Australia" it's "progressives". Multiculturalism is the lynch pin in the globalist/capitalist train, attack multiculturalism and you de-rail the whole show, this is why both sides of parliament vehemently oppose nationalism, White ethnocentrism and endorse anti-racism, Tony Abbott is as much an Anti Racist as any of those people in Guy Fawkes masks and balaclavas.

Lefties love to invent terms to claim some moral highground. "Islamophobia" being one of these terms, along with "cultural racism". Let's extent this lefty logic to other areas. Lefties dislike capitalists; therefore they're "capitalistophobic". Lefties dislike Christians; therefore they're "Christianophobic". Lefties dislike conservatives; therefore they're "conservativeophobic". Lefties dislike businesses; therefore they're "businessophobic". Lefties dislike bankers; therefore they're "bankerophobic". Lefties dislike white males; therefore they're "whitemaleophobic". Lefties dislike Western history; therefore they're Westernhistoryophobic". Lefties dislike pride in one's culture (only Western culture of course); therefore they're "prideophobic". Lefties dislike minimal government; therefore they're "minimalgovernmentophobic". Now if we apply lefty logic to lefties, they look like very intolerant people, with lots of "phobias". It appears to be the same with the "cultural racism" tag. Given that all these phenomena lefties dislike are a cultural phenomena, they too can be tarred with the "cultural racist" tag.

What bigots!

Alice writes, in part, that: "Everybody should be able to criticize Islam...".**

Perhaps when she returns from Syria, having said this to the Islamic State hierarchy,
I shall be more inclined to believe anything else she may have to say.

In Australia, present circumstances give the lie to that statement**; take for example the case of the Sydney
doctor who bravely spoke out about Islamic State:
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/dr-jamal-rifi-the-aussie-doctor-taking-on-is/story-e6frfmyi-1227254864323.

See also: Australian Story: http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2015/s4191217.htm

He did receive support from some members of his community, but he also received a death threat against himself
and against his family.

Anecdotal evidence in this case suggested a course of harassment against him and his family by Muslim members of
his community.

"Everybody should be able to criticize Islam...". ??

<And the lack of an intelligent and compassionate national conversation about Muslims and Islam by the politicians and in the media has fueled Islamophobia and anti-Islamic movements like Reclaim Australia.>

No, the actions of 100,s of the Islamic community, running to join Isis
from Australia and Europe, committing terrorists atrocities within
Australian and British society, is what has fuelled the rise of anti-Islamic
feeling and movements like reclaim Australia.
It is the usual Muslim way to blame everybody for their actions but themselves.
They and they alone are responsible for the distrust and suspicion.

Wherever there are Muslims in the world, there is trouble and they are the common
Denominator in the whole,awful, mess. Even their own countries are never at peace.
Something very toxic about the mindset of that religion. Stop blaming us for what your Muslim compatriots do. That's just Muslim propaganda

Seventy Australian girls in Sydney were gang raped by Muslim race hate rape packs around the year 2000, and the Imam of the Lakemba mosque said it was not the fault of the the poor Muslim boys (who according to Islamic idoeeolgy have "uncontrollable lusts") it was the fault of those western "cat meat" sluts.

It is funny how Alice Asian can see racism when Australians react to the unacceptable violence in Islam, but when her own gang starts raping Aussie girls to show their hatred of Australians, and their religiously condition misogyny, she tries to blame the victims. It's the Aussies who are the racists. Just forget the rapes. If 70 Muslim girls had been raped by Australian men, Alice would be frothing at the mouth. The Muslims would be attacking Coogee or bashing lifesavers in Cronulla again.

She even suggests that all of the problems in the middle east now are the cause of the western world. Apparently, westerners should just sit back and do nothing while the fruitcakes who pass for Muslim leaders formant trouble everywhere, and just let the latest bunch of religious fanatic nutcases take over the whole middle east.

If you love Islamic culture so much, Alicia, why did you immigrate to an infidel country? It is because you were a woman and we gave you a much better deal, didn't we? Islam has much to be criticised for, but did you criticise the failings of your own religion? NO. Not that I blame you, according to Islam, if you did that, your father and brothers would probably get the nod from the local imam to murder you.

Multiculturalism is dead. And we have to thank the Muslims for showing everybody why it could not work. You can not mix people from cultures with diametrically opposed value systems and think that everything will be OK. Australia is a modern country and the Muslims are still living in the 14th century. Churchill wrote that 'war with Germany would come." If he were alive today, he would be saying that "war with Islam will come."

I love to be amused by the unravelling of multiculturalism before my eyes...
What intraegues me the most is my increasing joy watching Muslims inadvertently propping up the failed morals of Christianity, now as decadal as the secular society it produced!

'Seventy Australian girls in Sydney were gang raped by Muslim race hate rape packs around the year 2000, '

thats ok Lego as long as the sisterhood get their quotas in Parliament. The silence from the feminist was amazing. Oh well Julia gave a great speach in covering her parties incompetence. I mean Tony really should not wear blue ties despite some of the women wearing men's suits.

What a bizarre, twisted article. Where in the Christian world is FGM practiced? How does Jennifer Conley 'highlight' that the asian invasion of Australia is a 'fiction' when all the evidence is to the contrary? Why do muslims like the author come to Australia in the first place? Why don't they stay in their sharia paradises? (lower case intentional)

Cody,

"Why do muslims like the author come to Australia in the first place? Why don't they stay in their sharia paradises?"

Very interesting question. The answer is obvious to you and me, but not apparently to some Muslims, they come to enjoy all the benefits of Western civilisation, however they also bring Islam and its toxic ideology with them, they don't seem to understand that they can't have both.

Unfortunately, people like Abbott and the rest of the unrepresentative politicians we are burdened with tell them they can have both. Naturally, it is the general population who pays for this appalling social experiment imposed on us from above.

'What a bizarre, twisted article. Where in the Christian world is FGM practiced? ' Have you not woken up yet Cody to the fact that secularist will believe anything anti Christian as it fits their narrative. They are just pawns on the board being used being deceitfully and made to feel they are morally superior. Lying about history means nothing to them as long as the rainbow flag flies. The beheading their ' brothers ' receive in other countries mean little to them.

It is good to see that increasing numbers of posters are advocating the ceasing of muslim immigration, be it as refugees or regular immigrants.

For many years now Islam has shown it is not compatable with western society.

Islam is an ideology that does not fit into our cultural ways and it was a mistake to allow their entry.

It is no coincidence that the 20 plus prisoners now serving time for terrorist acts are all muslim as are those for the gang rapes in Sydney. With 20% of muslims having extreme views, it is only a matter of time for us to encounter more terrorist acts.

That is how our welcoming generosity will be repaid.

Dear Banjo,

What do any of us really know about the religion
of Islam?( Or for that matter ANY religion really).
Pre-judging entire groups of people on the behaviour
of extremists and fundamentalists somehow does not
seem right. It excludes individual differences.
Not everyone practices their religion in exactly the
same way or does the same things.

For many people Islamic fundamentalism conjures up
images of women behind veils, of adulterers being stoned,
of thieves having their hands cut off, of public floggings
and executions and beheadings, and, in extreme cases, of
martyrdom in holy wars, of political fanaticism exemplified
in air-craft hijackings and terrorist bombings. The Muslims
that I encounter every day - would find that sort of behaviour
just as alien as I do.

This picture is rather distorted, as it is based on what is
newsworthy rather than what is typical. When has the media
presented anything positive about Muslims or the positive
aspects that the Islamic Communities are trying to
achieve both in this country and globally. The Islamic
Communities are speaking out - but no-one is listening.

Of course fanatics and extremists do bad things - and all
religions have them - but we should
remember that ISIS is a terrorist and brutal organisation -
and is not supported by the majority of Muslims in this
country. A small group of misguided people who have gone to
fight overseas should not make the rest of the communities in
this country suspect - especially when most Muslims - are doing everything they can to co-operate with the authorities.

I am a Catholic, but I would hate to be blamed for the behaviour
of priests who sexually abuse children.

Arnold Zable, Writer, novelist and Human Rights
Activist tells us that

The Asylum Seeker Resource Centre in Melbourne -
which opened its doors in June 2001 now fourteen
years after the centre opened, the number of those
it has helped is now over 10,000.

Zable says that - "The centre, which began as a
shopfront, is now a massive undertaking. To see the
daily presence of hundreds of asylum seekers,
volunteers and supporters, and to observe the empowering
programs and expanding facilities, is to see an
alternative future at work."

"The Centre is a haven, a bridge between the past and the
present, and a model of what is possible when Australian
citizens reach out to the latest arrivals."

This helps us imagine a more compassionate future for this
country. A future and country we can all be proud of.

Foxy, you comments re the "moderate" moslems would I think cause much
outcry by the French citizens of Paris & Marseilles at your naiveté.

Thanks Foxy

I agree that most Muslims, and all the ones I know, are nothing like the negative stereotypes. I support multiculturalism.

I do think we need to address the boundary issues of multiculturalism honestly, though. How much do we expect immigrants to conform to established Australian social and cultural norms, and how much should they have freedom to continue with their previous practices? There can surely be civilised debate and disagreement on these issues without resort to racism and bigotry or negative stereotyping.

That is why I have some concerns about this article. It assumes that all concerns about Islam are based on prejudice and ignorance, and all criticisms of it are attacks on multiculturalism. Many are, as this forum attests, but not all.

"For many people Islamic fundamentalism conjures up images of..."

And why those images?

They are not "conjured" (i.e. illusions) they are based on real people, real events, real deaths.

"Of course fanatics and extremists do bad things - and all religions have them"

But we don't see Methodists stoning adulterers, Buddhists chopping off heads or Witches bombing embassies, do we?
Such "newsworthy" events rarely or never occur.

"Newsworthy" atrocities by Muslims are exceedingly plentiful. That's why we hear about them all the time.

"I am a Catholic, but I would hate to be blamed for the behaviour of priests who sexually abuse children."

But they aren't molesting children *because* they're Catholic.
Muslims do terrible things *because* they're Muslim and we're not.

Actions speak louder than words.

Or as your own "saviour" put it "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
You will know them by their fruits.
Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit."

Wake up and smell the fruit, Foxy.

Muhammed was a bandit leader, whatever sophistry Islamic apologists attempt in defence of the ideology, they cannot avoid that basic truth. The Crusaders were not true Christians, those Buddhists in Burma who are inciting violence against the Rohinga are not true Buddhists, however the members of IS who slaughter, rape and torture their victims are simply imitating Muhammed.

Islam is inimical to liberal democracy.

As to multiculturalism, all democracies are intrinsically multicultural, it's not an end in itself and we certainly don't need a doctrine or institutions to support the concept.
Multiculturalism is not now, and never will be any government's business.

Dear Rhian,

Peter Costello pointed out in his book,
"The Costello Memoirs," that "Outside
Australia's Indigenous People, we are
all immigrants or descendants of immigrants..."

Australia's immigration experience is also a broad
one. Originally it was Anglo-Celtic but after
World War II our immigrants came increasingly from
other parts of the world and in recent times the
groups are even more mixed. All of these immigrant
communities have made successful contributions to
this country. We have been very fortunate in this
country.

What has made us successful thus far has been our
institutional framework that preserves tolerance
and protects order so that we can all celebrate and
enjoy diversity in food, in music, in religion, in
language, and in culture. And we could not do that
without the framework which guarantees the freedom
to enjoy diversity.

Therefore as Costello states - "there is one law we are
all expected to abide by. It is the law enacted by
Parliament under the Australian Constitution."

We are asking all of our citizens to subscribe to a
framework that can protect the rights and liberties of all.
They are not optional. People coming to this country
are asked to subscribe to certain conditions.
Anyone who has a strong objection to any of these
conditions should not come to Australia.

Ultimately, it is important that people know that there
is only one law and it is going to be enforced whether
they acknowledge its legitimacy or not.

Dear Shocker,

After the terrorist attacks of September 11th
the public discourse surrounding Islam have
predominantly focused on condemnation.

We have seen that press releases that are
emotional displaying fear and anger have the
best chance of getting the media's attention.
Not only that but the least representative messages
from "fringe groups," get the most attention.

For example, Muslim organisations put out many
messages condemning terrorism in response to nearly
any incident but these press releases receive little
media coverage.

Radical groups who put out angry and emotional messages
get the media attention.

Therefore to the newspaper-reading and TV watching public the
impression is that Muslims care little about condemning
terrorism and are over-sensitive to Islamophobia.

This in turn convinces anti-Muslim organisations
(and their readers)
that they're right and that Muslims are trying to advance
Islamic Law under the guise of political correctness.

It would be intelligent (and mature) if consumers of news
could keep a healthy scepticism when reading articles or
watching reports about Islam fundamentalism
- and what arises out of specific
social and cultural conditions in those trouble-spot areas.

Muslim Communities globally could also inject much more
emotion into their condemnations of terrorism.

Hi Foxy
Yep, I agree with pretty much all of your last 2 posts.

Hi Shockadelic
The actions of the Crusaders were not compatible with the tenets of Christianity. But they believed that what they did was not just approved, but actually demanded, by their faith. So did almost every other Christian at the time. Most modern Muslims are appalled by islamist violence.

Looking at the bible, King David was a bandit and mercenary, Moses was a murderer, Abraham tried to kill both his sons, the prophet Elisha was a child-murderer, and St Paul participated in a lynch mob that murdered Christians. God demanded the genocide of the Canaanites. It’s easy enough to portray Christianity as a religion of violence if you only consider the evidence that supports this view.

"Australia's immigration experience is also a broad one. Originally it was Anglo-Celtic but after World War II..."

So over 150 years of "narrow" immigration is irrelevant to our identity and culture?
During the *founding* era?
Ever heard of "the sensitive dependence on initial conditions"?

"What has made us successful thus far has been our institutional framework".

Poppycock.

What's prevented the recent immigration craziness blowing up in our face "thus far" is the friendly, casual character of "narrow" Australians.
But that easygoing nature is being pushed to its limits.
Hence backlash.

"Muslim Communities globally could also inject much more emotion into their condemnations of terrorism."

They could, but they don't and they won't.
Might offend The Guy Upstairs.

Rhian "It’s easy enough to portray Christianity as a religion of violence if you only consider the evidence that supports this view."

All of your named "villains" were Jews, not Christians (Paul converted afterward).
And the Crusades were centuries ago.
Christianity poses little danger *today*.

But another religion does.
We are alive *today*. We are at risk *today*.
My agnostic homo infidel head could be chopped off TODAY!

If left-handed drivers caused 37% more accidents than right-handers, would insurance companies treat them "equally"?
No, there is a *greater risk*, so they would pay higher fees or be refused altogether.

The utopian fairy tale of "equality" denies the real risks of different population groups.

Onya, Shocky.

Dear Shocker,

Nobody is suggesting that Australia's past is
"irrelevant." On the contrary, history allows
us to see the present in a new light. It highlights
the particularities of the status quo and suggests
affinities between what was and what is.

At present, Australia is one of the most ethnically
diverse societies in the world. More than 42 per cent were
born outside Australia or have a parent born outside
Australia. Seventeen per cent speak a language other than
English at home.

Of course multiculturalism continue to have different
meanings for different people. Hidden anti-migrant
prejudices may not be voiced in public until they are
highlighted by some well-publicized event, such as
Pauline Hanson's 1996 maiden speech in Australian Parliament,
or the recent "Reclaim Australia," rallies.

Some Australians still believe that a "unique Australian
society and identity emerged in Federation and ...this
identity should be the basis of immigrant assimilation."

When discussing migrants, however, especially non-British
migrants people are sometimes tempted to lump all
newcomers together and treat them as one homogeneous species.
Nothing is further from the truth.

Australian immigrants vary a great deal in their ethnic
backgrounds, religions, and educational levels. Their current
social and educational needs are not homogenous either.
People have settled in Australia for various reasons:
asylum-seekers, refugees, economic, change of lifestyle,
adventure, family reunions and so on.

The early months after arrival in a new country call for
the greatest adjustment, not only for the migrant, but also
for the local people who interact with the migrant.
Since Culotta's humourous exposure of the problem, the
literature on this topic has been growing rapidly.

Anyway, as Peter Costello states,

"The political and cultural institutions that govern Australia
are absolutely critical to the attitude of harmony and
tolerance. Within an institutional framework that preserves
tolerance and protects order we can all celebrate and enjoy
diversity...
But we could not do that without the framework which
guarantees the freedom to enjoy this diversity."

Hi Shockadelic

Yep. Pretty much all the main characters in the Bible, OT and NT, were Jews, including Jesus and the disciples. Paul didn’t convert “from” Judaism, he came to believe that Jesus was the Messiah promised in Judaism. He remained a Jew. The complete separation of Christianity from Judaism came decades later. But these characters and their stories, both OT and NT, are intrinsic to Christianity.

I agree the Crusades were a long time ago, but they illustrate the point that Islam is not unique in being misrepresented to promote violence, and also that it is possible for the religious consensus to shift.

You ask if insurance companies would treat left-handed drivers differently if they cause 37% more accidents. It would depend on their assessment of risk and its significance. Black cars are significantly more likely to be involved in accidents than white ones, but they are treated the same by insurance companies.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-12/dark-cars-hard-to-see/4880246

In Australian experience at present (not necessarily elsewhere or at other times) most terrorists are Muslims, but the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists. I am much more likely to be murdered by a white male than a brown Muslim

The moment our Australian culture is changed by 'Merry Christmas' being slowly dropped and substituted with 'Happy Holidays' - as it has in some US states, for fear of 'offending' the disciples of a barbaric religion who treat women as unequal - is the moment we have lost the culture war . . .
As for Peter Costello's baffling babble - he is a politician; ipso facto he is a liar.

Foxy, if you want to copy/paste someone's brochure, please cite the reference.

"When discussing migrants, however, especially non-British migrants people are sometimes tempted to lump all newcomers together and treat them as one homogeneous species."

I'm not.
It's precisely because they're *not* homogenous that is the potential danger.

The more "diverse" the greater the fragmentation.
The greater the social fragmentation the higher the probability of serious catastrophes, perhaps total dissolution into chaos.

If you have 2 ethnic groups, 2 need to get along.
If you have 12, there are 132 relationships that need to be civil/tolerant (12 x 11).

If you have 6000, there are 35,994,000 relationships (6000 x 5999) that need to be "harmonious".
How likely is that?

Even if they were homogenous, the sheer numbers are ridiculous.

Pauline Hanson's election and popularity should have sent a message to the Tweedles.
Yet in the subsequent 19 years, under both parties, another 2.8 million immigrants arrived.

Yes, 2.8 MILLION.
A million, then another million, then almost another million.
In one generation.
And your kind wonder why the sentiment has turned.

"Some Australians still believe..."

And it doesn't take too much "some" to shake the world (Your pal Jesus started with just 12 guys).
What revolution or civil war was ever started by the majority?
It's always a small fervent core that gets the snowball rolling.

That "some" does't need to be large in number to make a big impact.
Keep the immigration engines running at full steam ahead and see what "some" Australians do.

Rhian "I am much more likely to be murdered by a white male than a brown Muslim"

Ooh, clever.
It that because there's 30 white males in Australia for every brown Muslim?

"it is possible for the religious consensus to shift."

And when these atrocious incidents disappear from the Muslim world, we'll know the shift has occurred.
Don't hold your breath.

Cody, "Happy Holidays" arose from the preponderance of adherents of that other backward oriental religion in the greeting card, film/television and publishing industry, watch any Hollywood Christmas movie and you'll see a menorah in the background at some point.

Way to go Shock. You could also add the AEC and the two major parties conspired together to make sure Pauline would not be elected again. Don't, however, expect anything to through to Foxy. She is a near six foot tall blond super model who also happens to be a librarian and a Grandmother at the same time, so of course she knows more than anybody else.

Dear Shocker,

Your ridiculous little opinions have been
noted.

Dear Cody,

You know me so well.

It must have taken you all night to think up
that response.

Well done!

Shockadelic

Yes that’s right, the risk of actually being killed by a particular type of person is a function of the probability of them committing murder and the number of such people there are. So even if you are right to assume that a Muslim is more likely to kill you than a non-Muslim, that probability is so vanishingly small that it makes no material difference to your chance of dying. In Australia, you are much more likely to be killed by a dog or a bee than a terrorist. And our Muslims neighbours are much less likely to kill us by drink-driving and alcohol-fuelled violence, which account for far more deaths and injuries than terrorism.

As I mentioned in my post above, I do think that radical Islam is a real problem that Muslims must address. That’s why I disliked this article, which brushes off legitimate as well as unfounded criticism. But vilifying an entire religion and its adherents for the actions of a small minority is not justified

Foxy "Your ridiculous little opinions have been noted."

And your clueless avoidance has too.
Please keep underestimating my intelligence.

Rhian

"that probability is so vanishingly small"

But growing all the time.
Thanks to immigration.
Something we can easily control (airport/harbour entry) unlike most complex social problems.

Numbers aren't even all that important to consequences.
It only took 19 terrorists to kill 2996 people on 9/11.

It may also not take too many Australians to start a civil war or revolution.
That is another risk that rises every day while immigration keeps running full steam ahead.

The Australian "Troubles" will all be the fault of people like you and Foxy, who refused to see the dangers or hear the warnings, when you had ample opportunity to do so.

Purely out of vanity.
The desire to flatter your ego about how "nice" you are.

Dear Shocker,

It has nothing to do with ego or vanity.

However, there is a certain "internet law."

Never play chess with a pigeon.
It knocks the pieces over, craps on the board,
and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

Foxy, you're not even playing chess.

You just wave your hands over the pieces as if you've done something.

Then lean back in your chair with a smug look and act like you've won, when you never even moved a single pawn.

Dear Shocker,

Poor pigeon.

You are getting checkers confused with chess.
But never mind I shall politely explain things to you:

Chess is an infinitely complex game, which
one can play in infinitely numerous and
varied ways.

What chess teaches you is that you must sit there calmly
and thin about whether it is really a good idea and
whether there are other better ideas.

In life, as in chess, forethought wins.

See you on another discussion.

You're just embarrassing yourself, Foxy.
There are pawns and pieces in chess.
Did I refer to anything checkers-specific?

The irony is *you* are the screeching, wing-flapping, pooping pigeon.
But you're too deluded to see that.

"Chess is an infinitely complex game, which one can play in infinitely numerous and varied ways."

Another copy/paste "insight" from the Queen of Ctrl+V.
(Actually said by Vladimir Kramnik)

I make legitimate "moves" based on history, statistical fact and meaningful analogy, in my *own* words.

Your strategies are:
1. non-response/avoidance/evasion
2. copy/paste official brochures/quotes
3. innate attempts at witty mockery (that ironically describe yourself).

"See you on another discussion."

Where you will contribute nothing.
As usual.

Except make the rest of us laugh . . . perhaps.

Dear Shocker,

I accept the fact the you think I have absolutely
nothing to contribute to any discussion.
Therefore no more needs to be said.

Dear Foxy

How inane and asinine.

Dear Cody,

The American actress - Katharine Hepburn once said,

"Trying to be fascinating is an asinine position to be in."

BTW :

You are so stimulating!

And you are so well read! I think I am falling in love with you!

Dear Cody,

Thank You.

There's no need to worry about statistics of how many Moslems practise Taqiyya and how many speak openly. Just focus on one. Mohammed. The historical prophet on whom all brands of Islam hang and on whom the Moslem cult requires its believers to model themselves. A murderous warlord who put 800 captive Jews to death to amuse the child he had married, and that massacre was just seeding: there were many, many more mass murders as this creature spread Islam through much of the world by force eventually turning millions into slaves or corpses. That's the baleful light that shines on 1500 million Moslems today. In Moslem countries they are tyrants. In decent countries they are a Fifth Column. Mohammed is the warlord spirit that moves terrorists including Islamic State butchers today. "There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet".

Millions of people learned Naziphobia the hard way, and millions more will learn Islamophobia the same way for the same reason - cherishing the human rights brought to us by the European Enlightenment and by the horrendously costly struggles last century to protect it, learning in the end to reject the PC appeasement of tyranny that we see growing like weeds in Western society today.

Well said . . . but we The People are not asked if we want this particular weed in our garden; instead we are forced to accept it as part of the wonderful world of 'multiculturalism' and all of its benefits and joys.

Emperor Julian,

Yes, indeed. One of my comments in the Guardian was deleted ( a very rare occurrence) I'm sure it was because I wrote that the members of IS are actually pious Muslims since they're imitating Mohammed's behaviour. Of course the implication is that 'moderate' Muslims are not true believers, we must never admit that inconvenient truth. Also there are millions of Muslims who, while rejecting the methods of IS, sympathise with its agenda.

The multicultists are running an uncontrolled social experiment, we're all going to pay the price for their utopian fantasies. There are no liberal democratic majority Muslim countries.

And we are going to pay for it sooner than you think, and the price is going to be very, very high indeed.