Well done, David, for bringing this issue to the public eye. The utopian campaigners, as you call them, are the publicly funded disability advocates who are using this wage case in an attempt to close down ADEs, which used to be called sheltered workshops. They have a couple of Unions on side and the "crowd" in the form of GetUp. But the families and the people with disability themselves are unrepresented in this fight, while being the ones with the most to lose. ADEs have their place in the employment continuum and serve a real purpose, bringing purpose to the lives of twenty thousand Australians, most of whom could never find a place in open employment. We need to be aware that most people with a disability are generously supported through government benefits. They need work far more than they need money, so let's not price them out of a job.

Sorry David, I see things somewhat differently!

Within the scope of their abilities the disabled are better more reliable workers!

The guy with mild cerebral palsy may have been an intellectual Giant?

I knew one such bloke when I was still in my twenties. He was our head storeman, knew to the article and the minute what was in stock, and what orders were outstanding, which on his watch were none.

Others may have the mathematical ability of rain man, and are invariably overlooked because of some character traits!

And boring repetitious assembly line jobs are tailor made for folks for whom such work is heaven, along with a pay packet!

The only ones wanting to price such folk out of a job are those who just want to exploit their superior abilities, enduring patience and reliability.

Yes sometimes you need to spend a little more time with such folk teaching them useful job skills, but they turn up when the more capable is at home nursing a self inflicted hangover etc!

We move our call centres offshore, even though almost everyone confined in a wheelchair can answer a phone.

And governments just don't help by still putting payroll tax on the disabled as well! Which then all too often mean that the disabled live out a mediocre lives, living on pensions that wouldn't even pay for a Sydney bedsit!

And a lose lose; but particularly when some of our brightest minds are locked inside profoundly disabled bodies. And while not all of them a Stephan Hawkins, some could be his equal or superior!?

And how would anyone know, but particularly in a constantly dumbed down Australia!

If one understands the average company payroll is just 16% of the recurrent outlays, then one is bemused by the myopic focus on wages, but not so overgenerous salaries!

A few more disabled folk populating parliaments/boardrooms and we wouldn't ever need to have this conversation ever again!
Rhrosty.

David,

I agree that much needs to be done to encourage employers to hire disabled people. My experience in trying to hire someone with relatively minor disability was that the insurance premiums that we needed to pay increased, and the unions refused to consider a slightly reduced wage based on reduced ability and increased costs. The result was that we hired someone else.

Rhosty,

While I agree that if a disabled person can fully perform the functions required of a job, that he should be paid the same as a fully able person, I would contest that this does not apply to the majority of cases as nearly 50% of those working age disabled are unemployed. I strongly feel that making employment wage conditions flexible for these people would get them in the door and possibly a better job down the line. At least it would give them some dignity, and reduce the cost to the taxpayer.

I have a disabled child 17yrs old he has ADD ODD ADHD GDD and high functioning autism. He is also intellectually mild.
My boy is in the transition to work program. Wollongong.
In my experience the disabled workers that are employed by IVS, mowing lawns, do a far superior job than professionals but get paid $1.39 per hour.
My lad wont be going down that track, unless he wants to. I have a couple of lawns to mow now and I can give him those, if he wants. I think he would be bored out of his wits in 6 months(but would do the job better than I could).
This lad is the best with small kids. Whenever I ask him about working in childcare his whole body perks up. So Just asked him and he told me he is happy about me posting about him and he really does want to do childcare.
He is 6'4' and big.
Thanks for listening. The boy is unreal.
Sean

Rhrosty,

"We move our call centres offshore, even though almost everyone confined in a wheelchair can answer a phone."

That is the point of this post. It is much cheaper to have people in other countries to answer a phone, than have Australians in a wheelchair to do the same. That is what "price disabled people out of a job" means. Your reference to unusual abilities might be valid in some cases, but are not prevalent generally. Especially not among intellectually disabled people.

I have Hereditar Spastic Paraplegia, I am 57 and have worked many jobs over the yrs. Now noone wants to know someone like me. Until middle 2008 was working as a teacher librarian but got a new boss who didn't want someone like me running his library. So pressure to take my leave and be medically retired. Now do volunteer work in town. No jobs for someone like me in country town.

For those with disabilties, in country regions, it is important that there is suitable access to transport especially public transport.
Example the NSW government in 2012 began/returned a daily train service between Bathurst and Central Station Sydney.They made no effort to improve access for those with mobility issues. Consequently those with mobility scooters cannot access train. Only space for one wheelchair. This state government has no plans to replace country train fleet all the money is for city rail.
So isolation for those with disabilities restricts choices.

For those with some form of disability who get some assistance from CENTRELINK but can pick up some casual work be afraid of Centrelink.
They will punish you by including that little bit of extra money as income for that fortnight so any money you receive , from Centrelink,
The amount will be deducted. You are PUNISHED.

Part 1/2

While David may have his heart in the right place, he demonstrably lacks the facts to form a sound opinion on this matter.

Firstly, businesses do not "make an offer" of low wages to people with disabilities. All employers MUST abide by the relevant state and Federal industrial relations frameworks, including minimum wage and awards.

An ADE provider can offer a place in their program and subsequently use a recognised assessment tool to calculate the hourly rate for that individual. Often this starts at a significantly low rate and may increase with further assessments.

Only registered ADE providers can offer the employment, not Joe Bloggs Lawn Mowing or Fred's Paper Delivery Pty Ltd. The registered ADE provider can, and often does, have commercial contracts that allow for the employment to exist.

Secondly, the legal issue is not about the low wages, but about the assessment used to determine those wages, in this case the BSWAT. Justice Crennan accurately pointed out that "the basic defect in the use of BSWAT is that it reduces wages to which intellectually disabled workers would otherwise be entitled by reference to considerations which do not bear upon the work that they actually do."

These considerations are an assessment of subjective, unmeasurable "competencies" including: work with others, communicate in the workplace, apply quality standards etc.
Each of these "competencies" are presented as a series of questions that must be answered by the employee. Conceptualising and communicating an adequate answer to questions that are quite irrelevant to the tasks performed in their employment can prove difficult for someone with a significant intellectual disability and they are unfairly penalised as a result.

There are viable alternatives to BSWAT, including the Supported Wage System (SWS) enshrined in the vast majority of our state and federal awards.

… continued

Part 2/2

Thirdly, David's conclusion that "we must let employers offer wages as they see fit" catastrophically undermines the industrial relations framework we have built up in the last century. We have awards and the minimum wage as a necessary safety mechanism to stop unfair employment practices. We must continue to uphold these tenets, not only for abled employees, but especially for those that do not have the capacity to stand up for themselves.

On a final note, David is also incorrect in his talk about a "graduated" pension. That only applies to a person in what the industry calls "open employment", whereby someone with a disability is employed at, or better than, minimum or award wages. These employees will have their disability support pension reduced at the current rate. Anyone employed under the ADE program, or on an SWS retains their full pension.

/end

Collin,

While I understand your desire to protect the disabled, the sweeping controls you recommend eliminate most of the potential jobs for the disabled.

A simple assessment of each person's abilities should allow private companies to employ these people on reduced salaries.

Lamp; could you have made a complaint of improper dismissil ?

Clearly you have no concept of anything related to our industrial relations system.
Employers cannot arbitrarily choose what they pay an individual, they must work within the existing systems, be it state or federal awards

Additionally, I'll clarify that I proposed no sweeping controls, but merely stated that the existing Supported Wage System is effective and already available. It's a much simpler system than BSWAT or other similar tools and is open to use by the majority of employers, not just ADEs.

Dear Collin,

<<Clearly you have no concept of anything related to our industrial relations system.>>

Speak for yourself please - it's YOUR system, not mine and not many others'.

<<Employers cannot arbitrarily choose what they pay an individual>>

Of course they can! It may not be according to your laws and if your police catches them then they might even be thrown in jail, but that doesn't mean that they cannot, or even that they should not - and if those so-called "employers" have good relationships with their so-called "employees", then you will never catch them!

What allows you anyway to label some people an "employer", others an "employee" and their harmonious relationship "industrial"? Yours is plainly a system of bullying and your pack of legislators are plainly illegitimate gangsters!

In 4 large NSW country centres there are businesses that employ mainly people with disabilities physical and/or mental. These workers love coming to work it gives them meaning, at purpose. Unfortunately or fortunately these workers also receive benefits through Centrelink. The employers pay them less so that they are not penalised by Centrelink.
Reckon that says something about government attitude.

You do not seem to be aware that if a disability pensioner is to work
in a supported job organisation a government certificate to cover that
individual is issued after a Centrelink nominated doctor has examined
them and reports from other relevant organisations, such as schools etc
are submitted.

It is just not up to the employer, not even the special employment co-ops.

Bazz

So we are not only priced out of jobs, but also bureaucratised out of jobs. Bureaucratic procedures are absolute nightmare. Especially for some people with mental problems. Recently I rather borrowed from my friends for new pair of glasses, just to avoid the paperwork the optometrist offered, to get a free pair. You have no idea.

The certificate is there to protect the normal worker from exploitation
and to enable the handicapped to maintain their pension whilst earning
some additional money but more importantly to make it worthwile getting
out of bed in the morning.
It gives a feeling of satisfaction in doing some real work, just like
their brother or sister might be doing, off to work each morning.

Hermit I know that you just do not understand, as you would not be
able to be writing and arguing here if you were handicapped.

Bazz

"I know that you just do not understand, as you would not be
able to be writing and arguing here if you were handicapped."

How on earth have you arrived at this bizarre, illogical conclusion? Not all metal problems are related to cognitive disability. Posting comments here is nothing like filling government questionnaires (But you won't find many comments from me over the years I have been OLO subscriber). As I said. You have no comprehension of what you are talking about.

So how do you know what I know about this matter ?

Bazz

"I know that you just do not understand, as you would not be
able to be writing and arguing here if you were handicapped."

That sentence says it quite clearly.