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The Forum > Article Comments > Muslims immigrants and being Australian > Comments

Muslims immigrants and being Australian : Comments

By Abe Ata, published 15/4/2015

It is my hope and indeed my belief that the new Australian identity will come to see Muslim-Australians as Catholic-Australians, Italian-Australians, Irish-Australians, etc.… that is, both Muslim and Australian.

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Yes, Craig, and what a disgusting idea it is. The people intent on jihad are following the idea. There Is only one Islam, and all its adherents are expected to be loyal to it, and abide by its dictates - world domination; convert, die or live in dhimmitude; follow the example of Muhammad (a vile liar and hypocrite with a twisted personality who, when necessary, conveniently discovered that Allah suddenly had another vicious way of dealing with his (Muhammad's) problems as they arose.

The Koran (the book of ideas), the Sunna and the myriad of hadiths all support the current bunches of lunatics abroad, and the young nutters in our own country. It's all there to see, if foolish 'infidels' would look.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 10:31:21 AM
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Dear Ttbn,

Please leave Muhammad, peace be upon him, out of this: his memory is yet another victim to this political conspiracy by those Arab thugs calling themselves "Muslims", of which he was no part, nor did he write the Koran, nor are any of those hadiths true.

The Koran was written long after Muhammad, beginning around 790 A.D. and edited well into the 9th century. Around that time, vague memories surfaced about this saintly person, Muhammad, beloved of God, who lived in the 7th century as a symbol of perfection. Sitting around their campfires, it became popular to make up stories about this perfect person, Muhammad, imagining "what would a perfect person do, how would he live?", each according to their own concept of perfection.

We know of 100,000 pages of stories about Muhammad that existed at the time, but only 3,000 (3%) of them were selected and certified as "hadith", then were attributed a (fake and retroactive) lineage down to the time of Muhammad. Most other pages would describe Muhammad, peace be upon him, as meek and mild, but this particular gang censored most of those and instead attributed to him stories of conquest, violence and rape - in order to justify their own way of living.

'Islam', if it were ever followed, is a wonderful concept: it means "surrender to God", placing God's will above one's own selfish interests. The converse and ultimate un-Islamic hypocrisy was for those who like to kill and rape, etc. to present their own faults as the "will of Allah", smearing his prophet with their own bad character, then pretend to be following "His will". Please do not fall prey yourself to their frauds.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 11:51:09 AM
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Yuyutsu

Thankyou for your comments.

I am not out to upset anyone. I like to to seek the truth as much a you seem to. It is my understanding that Muhammed was illiterate - not unsusual for the time; so he could not have written the Koran, as you say. The Koran, like the Bible, was written, in stages long after the death of Christ, too.

As for Muhammad himself, I am only going on several books written on his life (by scholars). These all come up with pretty much the same story. And, with respect, those stories are not very nice and reflect very badly on Muhammad's treatment of Jews and other non-Muslims, particularly in Medina: killing, rapine, plunder, and so on; all in the name of Allah, or so he claimed.

Now, what can people like us, with differing opinions, do to find the truth? It's too late to ask the providers of the raw material after 7 centuries; but, if we believe other historical 'facts', we have to believe that there were eye-witnesses to Muhammad's behaviour.

It's a hard one, but my first question is - do you know of any accounts of Muhammad's life that contradict the writings I am familiar with? If they exist, they would originally be written in classical Arab. Like 99.9% of people, I certainly don't understand that. But, I would have thought that, by now, such books, if they exist, would have been translated into English (or some modern language) to combat would you clearly and sincerely believe are incorrect reports on the Prophet.

Referring to your final paragraph, I have to say picking the fraudulent from the truth is a big ask; their are so many different stories coming out daily - particularly from self-styled 'leaders' of the Muslim community in Australia.

Best regards
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 2:47:18 PM
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Dear Ttbn,

The use of scientific, forensic and archaeological materials, including not only pieces of evidence, but also the lack thereof, can teach a lot about the facts.

You may be interested in Robert Spencer's book, “Did Muhammad Exist?”. He also wrote other books on Islam and there are numerous talks on Islam by Robert Spencer on youtube - you can start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ0uV1GjyXI

Relying on different spiritual sources, however, I disagree with Spencer's claim that Muhammad did not exist at all, yet I agree with him that any connection between the historical Muhammad, peace be upon him, and current Islam are fabricated and that in any case, we sadly know little about him today.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 4:37:10 PM
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