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The Forum > Article Comments > Carnival of capital punishment for Bali Nine > Comments

Carnival of capital punishment for Bali Nine : Comments

By Duncan Graham, published 3/3/2015

The posters were the giveaway. Professionally produced with near perfect English, some almost works of art, showing Tony Abbott sprouting horns above the caption: ‘Go to hell Abbott with your druggies’.

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Tragic that this piece needs to be written.
Posted by Craig Minns, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 9:03:19 AM
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and the point of the article besides a little abbottphobia?
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 10:04:06 AM
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Maybe it is racism that Indonesians should not be permitted to execute Australians.

After all executions are legal in most US states and in the US federal civilian and military legal systems. No-one is saying Australians should boycott or not be tourists in the US.

Politically:

- Abbott gains nationalistic points whenever he criticises Indonesia

- Indonesian President Jokowi gains nationalistic points whenever he criticises Australia.
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 10:31:15 AM
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Interesting isn't it?

People who try to smuggle a few pounds of what's routinely available in the very prison that holds them are routinely put to death; and because some of their product may cost the life of several addicts, ending their days with a self administered overdose!

Diabolical double standards!

Whereas those who quite deliberately and knowingly presided over the death of hundreds of innocent tourists, received a few years incarceration; and if reports are to be believed, provided with all the comforts of home by those who think spilling innocent blood is okay?

And those who preside over the drowning death of tens of hundreds of alleged asylum seekers, by sending them to sea in ramshackle rotting death traps; escape with even less time served.

They say thou shalt not kill!

Yet have no compunction blowing away certain types of criminals, or people who refuse to have their territory annexed by a bigger land hungry neighbor!

And we know as fact that there were war crimes committed as virtual state sanctioned murder, yet there were no genuine inquires; and these folks still not only walk free, but it would seem, are able engage in the political contest?

Now I have absolutely no sympathy for drug smugglers, who knowing traffic commercial quantities of sometimes lethal illicit drugs, and would lock them up and throw away the key!

However, true justice is both blind and consistent, and can't be bought!

If those who may be inadvertently responsible for the loss of a single life, are to be shot at dawn, then why not those who send their customers to sea in death traps; or, quite deliberately and knowingly commit murder, who hide behind some notion of permissible murder, due to as yet unproven religious or seriously amended beliefs?

And either suffer from a slap on the wrist in comparison or still walk free.

Something stinks in Indonesia, and it smells like the very worst kind of incredibly rotten hypocrisy, seemingly coupled to a completely corrupted, for sale justice system?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 10:32:45 AM
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Perhaps the writer cold give minute by minute account of the deaths of innocents killed in Iraq, how an arm blown off, the other mangled, half a head missing, guts spewing everywhere, remaining eye out of its socket and so on, all because the USA drops a few bombs, which is quite legitimate, where are the writers who should be condemning the death sentence in many states of America,, of course we won't do that , will we, but Indonesia lets all condemn them, uncivilised murderers of Australian drug traffickers, if we condemn one then condemn the murderers in the USA where the death sentence is legal, but of course we won't , will we.
Posted by Ojnab, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 1:40:51 PM
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Slightly off topic but somewhat still relevant...

what kind of sentence do others think is appropriate for poachers that kill elephants, rhinos, and gorillas?

Personally I'm happy if the poachers are killed on the spot.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 3:25:59 PM
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Yep ConservativeHippie

Also executing white people attempting to steal wildlife from Taronga Zoo?

Isn't it the same thing if they want to sell the horns or tusks?
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 4:01:20 PM
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I couldn't agree more Rhrosty except where you state that drug traffickers should be locked up and have the key thrown away. I fail to understand how they should be held accountable for the deaths of people who choose to consume these drugs. Due we hold tobacco farmers accountable for the deaths of smokers? or brewers for the deaths of alcoholics? Is there seriously a single heroin user in Australia that is not aware of the dangers of shooting up heroin? Why do we hold the traffickers of illicit drugs to a different standard to everyone else who makes a living selling people potentially dangerous things? If you don't want to die from a heroin overdose, simply don't use heroin. Just like if you don't want to die in a motorcycle accident, don't ride a motorcycle. Don't go blaming the guy who sells you the motorbike.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 6:16:09 PM
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Ojnab thinks we have a double standard in not complaining when the US executes people. Well I wasn't aware that the US has ever executed an Australian. If they were intending to do so I'm sure we would make equally as large a fuss. The difference is that the US would probably respond positively to us rather than bloody mindedly going ahead and killing a citizen of a friendly nation.
There is no double standard in not protesting against every execution in the world. Our governments role is to protect the lives of and advocate for Australian citizens. Not every other unfortunate person in the world.
Abbotts comments were spot on, drawing the Indonesians attention to the fact that we are a friendly country who has helped them in the past. We ask for them to reciprocate by sparing the life of one of our citizens. This is not insulting to Indonesia or irrelevant. The Indonesians should not need to have been reminded of our past generosity. But the fact that they were willing to forget this made the reminder necessary.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 6:22:41 PM
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Rhys you obviously think that executing an American citizen is quite alright, go ahead and do it, I was not referring to any Australian in that country on death row but their own people, killing any one by such means is wrong be it in Indonesia or the USA
Posted by Ojnab, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 7:41:41 PM
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"So the back of the victims’ shirts will be ripped and splattered with blood, bone splinters and slices of pink flesh, the front soaked in a frothy mix of gore, tears and vomit, the pants filled with urine and excreta for every orifice opens up in the death throes. "

Why not describe the effects of the drugs these dirtbags were smuggling? Thank God most of 'em are only technically Australian. It helps with the shame.
Posted by PaulMurrayCbr, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 12:14:22 AM
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An feature article in the NSW "Daily Telegraph" newspaper a few weeks ago, was all about he horrifying effects the drug "ice" is having on society. Kids being turned into zombies, families crushed by the addiction of siblings, young girls prostituting themselves, armed robberies by crazed ice addicted offenders, burglaries, ambulance personnel and hospital personnel attacked by out of control, ice addicted patients.

But the most interesting aspect of the feature article was the attitudes of authorities. "We don't know what to do!" cried the politicians. "We don't know what to do!" cried the police. 'We know what to do!", cried the social workers. "Just give us lots of money to hire more social workers and we can do something!" But "Buggins Law" of social workers says that "the magnitude of social problems increases in direct proportion to the number of social workers employed to solve them." So I doubt that the social worker solutuiion will do anything other than drain our finances.

The Indonesians know what to do. They will give you fair warning. They will give that fair warning over and over again. Drug traffickers will be shot if caught. They really do mean it. And if you refuse to heed the warning, they will tie you to a post and genetically eradicate you. Your death will not only rid the world of a dangerous and anti social idiot, it will be a warning to others. It will reinforce the message that they are serious. I think that Duncan Graham's gruesome article could do the world a lot of good if any potential drug traffickers read it and realise that what is going to happen to Chan and Sukhamaran could happen to them, if they don't grow a brain and are stupid enough to go to Indonesia to deal drugs.

Well done, Indonesia.

The death penalty is part of Sharia Law and every Muslim country believes in the death penalty. It is the only thing that the Muslims have got right. Telling the Muslims to not execute their wost offenders is klike telling Muslims to eat pork.
Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 2:57:37 AM
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Pointless government murder! Proud of yourself AFP?

Im done with indonesia. Vile, backward country filled with corruption and graft. They are happy to pardon the Bali bombers after imprisoning them in luxury, while reformed Aussie drug runners get killed. Pathetic.

Dont expect any help next time you have a natural disaster.
Posted by mikk, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 10:16:12 AM
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Mikk, with respect, that's a silly response. Indonesia is a friend and a good neighbour to Australia that happens to have elected a backward President who seeks to pander to the lowest rather than the highest ideals of his people.

They'll rectify that in due course.
Posted by Craig Minns, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 10:27:32 AM
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Ojnab says "Rhys you obviously think that executing an American citizen is quite alright, go ahead and do it, I was not referring to any Australian in that country on death row but their own people, killing any one by such means is wrong be it in Indonesia or the USA".
I'm not saying it OK for Americans to execute their own citizens. I disagree with the death penalty whoever may be receiving it. I'm simply saying its not our governments job to advocate for American citizens. It is however their job to intervene when Australians are facing execution.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 10:38:31 AM
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LEGO, its the ridiculous attitudes of people like yourself that have led to the ever increasing potency of street drugs in Australia and around the world. If simply being ever more harsh was an effective strategy then countries like Iran who execute drug dealers and users willy nilly would not have the massive drug problems they have.
People like to get high. Whether that be with alcohol, cannabis, opiates or amphetamines. The rise of the synthetic cannibinoids is purely due to the prohibition of Cannabis. Likewise the rise of Meth is due to the illegality of cocaine and regular amphetamine. If properly regulated these drugs would be lot safer and cause a lot less harm in society. Likewise if opium was available for smoking in opium dens, why would a junkie be poking a needle into their arm in some public toilet. It never fails to amaze me how people like yourself wish to intervene in what others choose to put into their body. Particularly when that intervention leads to worse and worse consequences including massive property crime, ever more potent and dangerous drugs available, spread of blood borne infections, massive wealth for criminal organisations, corruption amongst the police, massive spending on prisons and punishing our children with criminal records that have a far more detrimental effect on their future than the drugs they are taking. But despite all these harms you are calling for more of the same. Apparently the problem lies in not executing enough people. A wonderful world you want to live in.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 10:49:55 AM
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"Mikk, with respect, that's a silly response. Indonesia is a friend and a good neighbour to Australia that happens to have elected a backward President who seeks to pander to the lowest rather than the highest ideals of his people.

They'll rectify that in due course."

When(if) they do I will reassess my view of indonesia.

They voted in a bloke called bang bang for gods sake. Let alone the joke-o they voted in this time.
"Friends and good neighbors" dont pointlessly and vindictively murder rehabilitated Aussie citizens.

This is a display of the contempt and hatred that indonesians and their government have for Australia.
Posted by mikk, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 11:11:53 AM
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Rhys Jones, it is the ridiculous attitudes of people like yourself who are responsible for the ever growing impact of drugs on the Australian community. The only way to tell if the death penalty will prevent the continued growth of drug crimes in Australia, would be to introduce a ten year trial period where we hanged every methamphetamine importer or manufacturer, and hanged every importer and trafficker of addictive drugs. It would have a major impact and you know it. The primary reason why the educated elites feel so sorry for drug traffickers like Chan and Sukamaran, is because they one of the demographic groups that are the customers for their illegal products. Even former NSW Premier Neville Wran's daughter is a meth addict who is now on remand for murder.

Your claim that all we have to do is legalise drugs and hey presto, the problem is solved, has just one little problem. If it was that easy, why has no advanced society ever contemplated it? The answer is, because there are enough people around who know it is sheer lunacy. Only a Green Party supporter would be stupid enough to even think that way. Betcha you vote Green?

One reason why we have a problem with drugs is because too many movies, magazines, and TV shows aimed at young people present drug abuse as the fashionable thing to do. There was even one execrable TV series which presented the life of a methamphetamine cook as some sort of comedy where the "hero" drug cooker enjoyed an exciting and amusing life. So many pop stars have died of drug overdoses that you can't really be considered a legend in rock unless you have OD'ed

The Indonesians have done exactly the right thing. Call it "tough love" if you want, but what Indonesia has done is to set a clear moral boundary and widely publicised what will happen to you if you fail to heed their clear warning. The executions of drug pushers in Indonesia will display to even a Green supporter, the principle of Cause to Consequence.
Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 3:54:09 PM
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Two points -

Does anyone truly believe that Sukamaran and Chan, the leaders of an international drug trafficking business with connections and imports from Hong Kong, would have rehabilitated or found God if they had been arrested and sentenced to 10 years in an Australian prison?

To anyone who thinks the death penalty doesn't act as a deterrent look at Iran in the late 60's. After announcing drug traffickers will be executed on the spot, at the border and following through, smartass European drug smugglers gave Iran a wide berth overnight.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 4:15:34 PM
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Hi Ojnab,
No I am not a meth user nor have I ever been. I am not part of the educated elite, although I am well educated. I do not vote green. In fact in most areas I am very conservative. However, I don't believe the state has any role in determining what individual citizens can eat drink smoke or inject into their veins. That includes things which might be harmful for them.
Clearly you feel the government should decide what choices you make when it comes to intoxicants, and even feel that killing people is a good way ensure people make healthy choices. Clearly you believe the government is in a better position than you are to determine what choices you should make. I suggest you grow a little self respect and take the plunge and make your own decisions. Even better though would be keeping your nose out of other peoples health and lifestyle decisions.
As far as your assertion that no advanced society has ever contemplated legalising drugs. This is just absurd. All drugs were perfectly legal until the early to mid 20th century. Of course levels of addiction were just the same as they are today. The difference was that drugs were less potent, no criminals were involved in the distribution, prices were much lower so no-one needed to inject them and also due to the low prices there was no property crime associated with addiction. Why would you care if someone wants to spend their days lying around in a drug induced haze. I certainly don't. What I do care about is that they don't steal my stuff to pay criminals for artificially expensive drugs.
Rather than just spouting your ignorant and brutal solution to what should merely be a minor health issue, why don't you do some reading and really find out the effects of prohibition.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 7:19:17 PM
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Hi Rhys it's really nice of you to keep Ojnab in your mind but as I am only a general writer and not an analizing one I think you may have got me mixed up with another writer if so, all is forgiven, Ojnab rarely goes into hours and hours of looking up information on Google, too busy playing golf, but then if you still think it was me I most certainlay have advanced my knowledge on the subject.
I seem to live in a confused state of mind,Tony is doing his best to save the Bali drug pair by firing squad, but then sends three hundred extra troops to Iraq who also may be subject to any sort of firing squad while there, if you are so worried about the drug mules surely you must be worried about the young men you are sending off to be perhaps killed, but then that is war, isn't it, I must stop looking at things both ways it doesn't help my golf.
Posted by Ojnab, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 7:59:09 PM
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So sorry Ojnab. That should have been directed at LEGO. As far as Sending troops of to kill people on the other side of the world, I certainly don't support that. Not only for the sake of the lives of our soldiers, but also for the sakes of the people they will kill and also for the sake of my fellow Australians who will be killed in retaliation for us sending people to kill people who have done us no harm. So about the unwieldy language.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Thursday, 5 March 2015 1:54:08 PM
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